Religion IS crazy!

[Value Collector]

Not yet, but maybe later if the Muslim population increases and they decide to show some muscle.

Better to nip these things in the bud now before there are more of them to argue with.

I don't even think there is a bud to nip, I mean have there been any robberies done by people wearing burkas.

I am also not cool with the government going around and destroying personal freedoms any more than they already do in the name of security.

 

[Tisme]

I don't even think there is a bud to nip, I mean have there been any robberies done by people wearing burkas.

.

Yes. https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sou...ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=burka+robbers&tbm=nws

 

[Value Collector]

Yes. https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sou...ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=burka+robbers&tbm=nws

Any Australian Examples? if so how many? because we would need a trend happening locally before we can say a bud is forming.

 

[luutzu]

Yes. https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sou...ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=burka+robbers&tbm=nws

Oh ey, there's also robberies by people just wearing normal clothes. What should we do?

Nib the bud might need to go further than clothing. Maybe people are bored, need quick cash, can't get no job in this economy etc. etc.

Can't imagine a criminal would sit around planning their crimes then... wait a minute, the burqa is banned, how the heck are we going to pull this off now? Back to the drawing board... heck, back to find legal employment or financial services and investment banking, haha

 

[SirRumpole]

Oh ey, there's also robberies by people just wearing normal clothes. What should we do?

Nib the bud might need to go further than clothing. Maybe people are bored, need quick cash, can't get no job in this economy etc. etc.

Can't imagine a criminal would sit around planning their crimes then... wait a minute, the burqa is banned, how the heck are we going to pull this off now? Back to the drawing board... heck, back to find legal employment or financial services and investment banking, haha

The point is if you have an accepted item of clothing that conceals identity then there is more chance of people using this clothing for criminal activity, and they don't need to be Muslims.

If people were walking down the street in a balaclava or motorcycle helmet then you would get suspicious because these are not normal places to wear this headgear but if burkas got accepted as normal then the likelihood is that people would use them as cover for crimes because they wouldn't raise suspicions.

 

[luutzu]

The point is if you have an accepted item of clothing that conceals identity then there is more chance of people using this clothing for criminal activity, and they don't need to be Muslims.

If people were walking down the street in a balaclava or motorcycle helmet then you would get suspicious because these are not normal places to wear this headgear but if burkas got accepted as normal then the likelihood is that people would use them as cover for crimes because they wouldn't raise suspicions.

Has noco subscribed you to his newsletters? Or are you just bored?

I thought it's obvious that anyone you meet or anyone walking anywhere on the street could potentially carry concealed weapons or could commit a crime at any time. I mean, that's why Big Brother is spending hundreds of millions a year watching over us right?

But there's this thing in our legal system about presumed innocent and individual rights and religious freedom and anti-discrimination. Yea I know, they're all to protect the noisy minority and Muslims but sometime those rights protect the disabled or the gays who happen to be White and Christian too.

 

[SirRumpole]

Has noco subscribed you to his newsletters? Or are you just bored?

I thought it's obvious that anyone you meet or anyone walking anywhere on the street could potentially carry concealed weapons or could commit a crime at any time. I mean, that's why Big Brother is spending hundreds of millions a year watching over us right?

But there's this thing in our legal system about presumed innocent and individual rights and religious freedom and anti-discrimination. Yea I know, they're all to protect the noisy minority and Muslims but sometime those rights protect the disabled or the gays who happen to be White and Christian too.

If I'm bored then I guess you must be too.

Sure anyone can commit a crime and a lot get caught because people recognise them or they get caught on CCTV.

It doesn't take a lot of brains to think that if people can legally cover their faces then it's more likely that that "freedom" will be abused to commit crimes.

Let's take a VC view of the "morality" of the situation.

What are the advantages of wearing a burka ? Sod all, just to make a sexist Muslim man able to repress his woman.

What are the advantages of not wearing a burka ? 1. People are more likely to converse with you and treat you equally if they can recognise you, and 2. people are less likely to commit crimes. 3. no one in the Islamic leadership says wearing a burka is required by Islam, so it's not a religious freedom.

Benefit to society by people not wearing burkas ? Safety and inclusion.

Benefit forgone by the ex wearer ? Very little.

Society gets a benefit by banning these things, and so does the (ex)wearer.

It should be done.

 

[sydboy007]

The point is if you have an accepted item of clothing that conceals identity then there is more chance of people using this clothing for criminal activity, and they don't need to be Muslims.

If people were walking down the street in a balaclava or motorcycle helmet then you would get suspicious because these are not normal places to wear this headgear but if burkas got accepted as normal then the likelihood is that people would use them as cover for crimes because they wouldn't raise suspicions.

Do you have some statistics on how many crimes are committed with various forms of clothing that hide a person's identity? I'd be interested in knowing how many have been done using a burqa, or is your whole argument that a person MIGHT use a burqa to commit a crime and it's the potential that needs to be legislated against?

Then you'd need to showing that denying people their right to wear a burqa is in the public interest ie that the number of crimes is high enough to warrant deny a basic right to dress as one chooses.

 

[SirRumpole]

Do you have some statistics on how many crimes are committed with various forms of clothing that hide a person's identity? I'd be interested in knowing how many have been done using a burqa, or is your whole argument that a person MIGHT use a burqa to commit a crime and it's the potential that needs to be legislated against?

Then you'd need to showing that denying people their right to wear a burqa is in the public interest ie that the number of crimes is high enough to warrant deny a basic right to dress as one chooses.

Burkas are not being singled out, as I keep saying this should apply to ANY identity concealing garment.

 

[MrBurns]

Burkas are not being singled out, as I keep saying this should apply to ANY identity concealing garment.

They have to be banned, I was in the supermarket once and a woman (I think) very tall, totally in black slithered down the aisle, I say slithered because she was covered head to toe, you couldn't even see her shoes.
Any children would have been traumatised....and some adults.

 

[luutzu]

If I'm bored then I guess you must be too.

Sure anyone can commit a crime and a lot get caught because people recognise them or they get caught on CCTV.

It doesn't take a lot of brains to think that if people can legally cover their faces then it's more likely that that "freedom" will be abused to commit crimes.

Let's take a VC view of the "morality" of the situation.

What are the advantages of wearing a burka ? Sod all, just to make a sexist Muslim man able to repress his woman.

What are the advantages of not wearing a burka ? 1. People are more likely to converse with you and treat you equally if they can recognise you, and 2. people are less likely to commit crimes. 3. no one in the Islamic leadership says wearing a burka is required by Islam, so it's not a religious freedom.

Benefit to society by people not wearing burkas ? Safety and inclusion.

Benefit forgone by the ex wearer ? Very little.

Society gets a benefit by banning these things, and so does the (ex)wearer.

It should be done.

Of course I'm bored, that's how i recognised when others seem to be
Didn't mean it as an offense.

Anyway, how does it benefit you or anyone else if people wear this or that? And even if it benefits you and I, what right do we have to demand it? It benefits a lot of people to be paid $100k+ a year, ain't gonna happen.

As to the wearer... seems obvious that if it benefits her too she'd not wear it either. I take yours and Bellenuit point about male oppression and religious fanaticism forcing women to wear this or that... unfortunate as that is, if it's not physical abuse or psychological abuse etc. are we going to ban what some of us don't like?

If those women feel oppressed, feel threatened if they don't wear it... they can always call the authority and I am definitely certain the authority and the community will step in to intervene. Until then, how about we assume they're brought up that way, that's their way of life and the father or husband does not mean any harm by it... just feel that in dressing like that they're faithful to their Allah.

You could make a better case about male chauvinism and oppression of women with bikinis and hot pants or promiscuity in young girls and women. Know how many teenage girls who aren't slim like a surfboard suffer from depression or anxiety and self-loathing with images of drugged out models? Or how many marriages and family were broken up by people who have this thing about free choices in other adults and if they want to sleep around sure why not (yes, I have known such people).

Yes, not all sect in Islam demand the Burqa, so it's a very minor minor minority. Maybe they'll adapt and go easy on the Wahabi or whatever version of Islam once exposed to other views.

And how would banning the Burqa reduces crime?
Even outlawing crime itself doesn't reduces crime. People who want to commit crimes will do it, wearing the Burqa or wearing a suit and tie.

 

[luutzu]

They have to be banned, I was in the supermarket once and a woman (I think) very tall, totally in black slithered down the aisle, I say slithered because she was covered head to toe, you couldn't even see her shoes.
Any children would have been traumatised....and some adults.

Yes, I was taken aback the first time I saw the full burqa... but "slither"?

Traumatise the kids? Maybe it's an early lesson in multiculturalism... yes kid, there are different people with different culture... the world is a very big place.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes, I was taken aback the first time I saw the full burqa... but "slither"?

Traumatise the kids? Maybe it's an early lesson in multiculturalism... yes kid, there are different people with different culture... the world is a very big place.

Actually, I'm beginning to agree with you, lets just get over it and let everyone in.

Why be paranoid? Why not just accept everyone, we have a very big country with a small population.

We should be more welcoming of other cultures.

Let's bring in heaps of Indians, Sri Lankans, Nigerians, Somalians, Syrians, Iranians, just open the border, let's get the population moving.

That will move the economy.lol

Actually I think us old farts, that believe there is something worth protecting, are dinosours.lol

 

[luutzu]

Actually, I'm beginning to agree with you, lets just get over it and let everyone in.

Why be paranoid? Why not just accept everyone, we have a very big country with a small population.

We should be more welcoming of other cultures.

Let's bring in heaps of Indians, Sri Lankans, Nigerians, Somalians, Syrians, Iranians, just open the border, let's get the population moving.

That will move the economy.lol

Actually I think us old farts, that believe there is something worth protecting, are dinosours.lol

I didn't say "more" welcoming. I seriously believe Australia is, in general, very welcoming and generous. Just hope we keep it that way.

If we want lower prices, better infrastructures, and be a serious contender for world domination (instead of playing deputy), we're not going to do that with 24million people.

A nation is not poor because of over-population, it's poor because it is corrupt and its leadership tax the masses but give it all to the top, and the top invest it in a few mansions and private jets and tax shelters.

Look at France or England in the Middle Ages to WW1. Have less population than this century yes? Beside the Scots and the Irish, no other ethnic groups to blame yes?

The masses were really poor, ill-educated, and even resort to eating grass.

Just saw the headline... Morrison is seriously considering raising the GST to offset the income tax cuts... so that it somehow raises no new net tax, just fairer redistribution. Putting pressure on poor families, cutting demands in spending... that's the way to increase economic activities... and those on more than 80K will have more income in their pocket... with that they'll invest where? Anywhere in the world right?

The country's being stolen and we're blaming the people whose dream is to come over and make a better life for themselves and their family by working hard to rise up in life.

 

[sydboy007]

Ephesians 4:18 - They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.

Psalm 14:1 To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good.

Religion always reverses everything

 

[sptrawler]

I didn't say "more" welcoming. I seriously believe Australia is, in general, very welcoming and generous. Just hope we keep it that way.

If we want lower prices, better infrastructures, and be a serious contender for world domination (instead of playing deputy), we're not going to do that with 24million people.

A nation is not poor because of over-population, it's poor because it is corrupt and its leadership tax the masses but give it all to the top, and the top invest it in a few mansions and private jets and tax shelters.

Look at France or England in the Middle Ages to WW1. Have less population than this century yes? Beside the Scots and the Irish, no other ethnic groups to blame yes?
.

Well let's look just to the north of us Indonesia, 250 million people, invite them here, they would love to come here.
Then we will have a bigger population and be a serious contender in world politics.

I think that is a great idea, all we need do is have an open border with Indonesia, like the EU.
That would work, they could come here, or we could go there.

This is great, open ideas that benefit the poor nations, now we are getting somewhere.

 

[sydboy007]

Well let's look just to the north of us Indonesia, 250 million people, invite them here, they would love to come here.
Then we will have a bigger population and be a serious contender in world politics.

I think that is a great idea, all we need do is have an open border with Indonesia, like the EU.
That would work, they could come here, or we could go there.

This is great, open ideas that benefit the poor nations, now we are getting somewhere.

Isn't that what the Liberals are proposing with the ChAFTA?

 

[sptrawler]

Isn't that what the Liberals are proposing with the ChAFTA?

Well I wouldn't know, Switzerland has had a free trade agreement with China for two years, but you can talk up the storm.

Maybe you can suggest, what we do to find money, to build anything.

IPO's? I don't think so.

Tap into the superannuation nest egg? I don't think so, you want to tax that.

So where do we find the money to develop our country?

You obviously live in a cocoon. Not meant in a derogatory sense, but really where do you think Australia is going to get the funds to support its lifestyle?

We haven't the savings base, to develop the massive areas, for minerals and or agriculture.

We don't have the tax base, to support the welfare system and the infrastructure development.

Where do you think the money will come from, to escalate our GDP output, infrastucture and welfare system ?

 

[Value Collector]

The point is if you have an accepted item of clothing that conceals identity then there is more chance of people using this clothing for criminal activity, .

You mean like sunglasses and a hat, I think a lot more robberies are done wearing those, but they are part of "our" culture, so I guess you wouldn't ban them

If I'm bored then I guess you must be too.

Sure anyone can commit a crime and a lot get caught because people recognise them or they get caught on CCTV.

It doesn't take a lot of brains to think that if people can legally cover their faces then it's more likely that that "freedom" will be abused to commit crimes.

Let's take a VC view of the "morality" of the situation.

What are the advantages of wearing a burka ? Sod all, just to make a sexist Muslim man able to repress his woman.

What are the advantages of not wearing a burka ? 1. People are more likely to converse with you and treat you equally if they can recognise you, and 2. people are less likely to commit crimes. 3. no one in the Islamic leadership says wearing a burka is required by Islam, so it's not a religious freedom.

Benefit to society by people not wearing burkas ? Safety and inclusion.

Benefit forgone by the ex wearer ? Very little.

Society gets a benefit by banning these things, and so does the (ex)wearer.

It should be done.

Your views on what I think is moral are always a bit scewed.

In regards to the morality of the burka, the factors that are relevant are the principle of personal freedom, eg you shouldn't take someone's right to wear it unless it is causing real harm.

A person wearing a burka might see the fact that people are less likely to converse with you as an advantage, eg the girl in the video getting hassled by random men. So you logic is a bit off on that item you have listed as an advantage.

A person isn't more likely to commit a crime wearing a burka.

Safety of society by banning needs to be demonstrated, would you be ok banning, hats and sunglasses?

 

[Value Collector]

Actually, I'm beginning to agree with you, lets just get over it and let everyone in.

Why be paranoid? Why not just accept everyone, we have a very big country with a small population.

We should be more welcoming of other cultures.

Let's bring in heaps of Indians, Sri Lankans, Nigerians, Somalians, Syrians, Iranians, just open the border, let's get the population moving.

That will move the economy.lol

Actually I think us old farts, that believe there is something worth protecting, are dinosours.lol

And there it is, it's not the actual item of clothing that bothers you, it's the breed of people you associate it with.