Religion IS crazy!

[Tink]

Bellenuit, thanks for sharing about your aunts.

We have had this gay marriage debate already, and its not just the religious that have their views.

Just a quick note, in that list, two are now legal, incest and homosexuality.

With pr0n and sexuality on the rise as you say, we now have child pornography, which is rife.

I will leave it at that.

 

[bunyip]

Tink, I don't know how many times I have read in your posts "the catholic church is all about family...."

The Catholic church is all about power and control - nothing else. All through history the church has sought to control its adherents through guilt and fear, and in doing so has gained immense power and wealth - and that is how it plans to stay.

Untold misery has been visited on families because people had to obey the dictates of their priests or suffer dreadful retribution. Just look at recent times at how families have had to suffer from too many pregnancies, too many children they couldn't afford, women old and worn out before their time from constant childbearing - all because birth control was banned. This did not promote family happiness or well being. And I am not talking about catholic Ireland - I talking about families I knew or know about in the 1960's in Brisbane. Church control in this department was alive and flourishing. Women who were known by their priests to be on birth control were made to feel terrible guilt and refused communion - refused the so-called loving family of the church.

All through the paedophilia saga the church has cared little for the families which have been destroyed - but has done everything to cover its own backside and maintain its power.

In fact I would go so far as to say that the church has interfered in family life to the detriment of families - not for their well-being. If the church cares about families why are priest and nuns not allowed to marry and enjoy the fulfilment family life can offer?

That is not to say there are not priests and nuns in the church who care about families, but the church hierarchy, the Vatican, the people in power care not a fig.

Ruby – I commend you on an absolutely top notch post.
As a young woman my wife worked as a midwife in Glasgow, Scotland – a strongly Catholic and low socio-economic city at the time. Time and again in the maternity unit she nursed women who’d had countless children, had serious medical problems and were advised to either take contraceptives or undergo sterilization, because having another baby would put the life of both mother and baby at serious risk. The family's priest however would be adamant that she must not follow the doctor’s advice, but instead should let nature take its course because that was God’s will.
Quite apart from the health issues, many of these families were living in poverty and were simply unable to properly look after their large broods of children.
This blatant hypocrisy and complete disdain for the wellbeing of families by the Catholic church was one of the many reasons my wife abandoned Catholicism not long after that.

This is in my opinion one of the reasons why priests should be allowed to marry and have children – the responsibilities and experiences of marriage and parenthood would make them better balanced men with a true appreciation of all that’s involved in being a spouse and parent. I believe they’d have very different ideas and attitudes as a result.

I’m looking forward to Tink’s response to your post. It’s going to be interesting to see if she’s honest enough to acknowledge the truths you’ve outlined, or whether she’ll refute them and back her opinions with solid argument. Then again, maybe she’ll choose the easy way out by saying nothing, as she’s done in response to my question on whether she thinks Catholic priests and nuns should be allowed to marry.

 

[Ruby]

Bunyip - Tink won't reply. She never responds to a challenge. She will just keep coming back with the same old stuff "the church is all about family...." and happily keep wearing her blinkers.

 

[sydboy007]

If a human is a 'slave to sex', then they are listening to their tribal urges, we move down to being no different to animals, but as I have said, it happens in society, and they accept all sorts in and out of the Church.

I would think uncontrolled births are far more a sign of being no different to animals.

Popping out as many offspring as one can, with no thought as to how they are to be feed and looked after, no thought as to how the environment will cope to support the even expanding population, that's more in tune with a rabbit or rat than an evolved species able to use some rational thought as to the consequences of such a life choice.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is the Catholic church see sex primarily for procreation. Sex for enjoyment, while a secondary considering in terms of maintaining a loving marriage, cannot occur if there's some form of contraception because love is by it's very nature life giving. It wasn't until the 18th century that the church moved away from sex was solely for procreation, but it is still viewed as being the primary reason.

That view to me is the more animalistic. Sex to overpopulate an already overpopulated world is what rodents and rabbits would do. They'd keep on popping out the offspring till environmental collapse wipes them out.

To me, rising above that animal instinct and recognising that limiting the number of offspring is not only good for the parents, but for the current and future generations, well that's what you seem to be calling against, at least if you follow your religious dogma.

 

[Calliope]

To me, rising above that animal instinct and recognising that limiting the number of offspring is not only good for the parents, but for the current and future generations, well that's what you seem to be calling against, at least if you follow your religious dogma.

Syd, I am surprised that you consider that you have the right to lecture Tink on "rising above the animal instinct" and "limiting the number of off-spring''. This is pure hypocricy. It's so easy for you as a gay to exercise your animal instincts and yet reduce your off-spring to nil.

 

[Bintang]

Syd, I am surprised that you consider that you have the right to lecture Tink on "rising above the animal instinct" and "limiting the number of off-spring''. This is pure hypocricy. It's so easy for you as a gay to exercise your animal instincts and yet reduce your off-spring to nil.

Well actually I think that's a good thing. We were heading for overpopulation even before muslim fertility rates started making it worse. So anything or anyone that helps mitigate that is welcome.

 

[bunyip]

Syd, I am surprised that you consider that you have the right to lecture Tink on "rising above the animal instinct" and "limiting the number of off-spring''. This is pure hypocricy. It's so easy for you as a gay to exercise your animal instincts and yet reduce your off-spring to nil.

Syd makes a good point though, doesn’t he Calliope? The ‘no birth control’ policy of the Catholic church does encourage Catholics to breed like rabbits, without consideration for the consequences, how they’ll look after their offspring etc.
The ability to think things through in advance of actions that many have potentially negative consequences, and the ability to plan to avoid those negative consequences, is just one of the many things that separates humans from the other animals.
Seems to me that Syd is right in suggesting that if we practice ‘open slather’ breeding without thought for the consequences, then in this regard at least we're not showing any more intelligence than rats or rabbits.

Whether Syd has the right to ‘lecture’ Tink is a separate issue. He does however have the right to express an opinion in response to what Tink or anyone else has said. Some people would say that from time to time Tink herself has resorted to ‘lecturing’ people on morals.

 

[Tink]

Sorry I didn't reply yesterday, bunyip, but I was on a tablet which I find pretty frustrating without a proper keyboard.

I don't really have an opinion if they should be married or not, as they do have a calling from God to work for the benefit of the community.

I agree that we are all entitled to our opinions, and thankfully we have freedom of speech in this country, though I still think Abbott should change 18C.

I suppose it is how you look at it, syd, sacrifice and boundaries, do people know those words today?

If you talk to families with many children that grew up in the 60's or whatever, I am sure they can tell you they had happy homes with their siblings.
There may not have been much in monetary terms, but they were happy.
A lot was homebaked, and they appreciated a lot more.

I was in here answering a question to bellenuit, that the homosexuals shouldn't expect the Church to change their teachings, regarding Marriage, that was all.

I wasn't expecting a long drawn out conversation on the Catholic Church, you can believe whatever you like.

I don't push my ideals on people as the left are doing now with their indoctrination.

 

[SirRumpole]

I don't push my ideals on people as the left are doing now with their indoctrination.

Could you expand on that ?

Who are the Left and what are their "indoctrination" techniques ?

Strange how religious people usually favour the Right. Peace and love towards all people is fine, except when they happen to be refugees or gays.

 

[Calliope]

Syd makes a good point though, doesn’t he Calliope? The ‘no birth control’ policy of the Catholic church does encourage Catholics to breed like rabbits, without consideration for the consequences, how they’ll look after their offspring etc.

He may be making a good point by your standards but his credibility rating on this topic is zero. The fertility rate of Catholic women in Australia is 1.3...far below the replacement rate of 2.1...so your and Syd's "rabbit' slur is wide of the mark. As for your talk of consequences, making aspersions about how they look after their children... that is just spiteful.

I consider that Catholics in Australia are much better citizens than Muslims in every way, and yet this thread seems to be mainly devoted to rubbishing Caholics and targetting Tink because she fights back against the wolf pack mentality.

Perhaps you could explain to me why you are not concerned about Muslim breeding habits.Their fertility rate is well above the replacement rate, and they are not doing a good job at "looking after their offspring" either, unless you consider raising them to hate us and become jihadists, is "looking after".

 

[Tink]

Could you expand on that ?

Who are the Left and what are their "indoctrination" techniques ?

Strange how religious people usually favour the Right. Peace and love towards all people is fine, except when they happen to be refugees or gays.

Is that all?
Maybe you should look deeper in what they are preaching, especially the Greens.

I have given many examples of how they are indoctrinating - from the ABC, to PC, to public schools with lack of male teachers.

 

[explod]

Is that all?
Maybe you should look deeper in what they are preaching, especially the Greens.

.

Would be interested (just a few main points) of what the Greens are preaching that is bad?

 

[SirRumpole]

I have given many examples of how they are indoctrinating - from the ABC, to PC, to public schools with lack of male teachers.

And you don't consider the requirement that school chaplains be religious (a measure introduced by the Right) to be indoctrination ?

 

[Tink]

Well put it this way, explod, I would never vote the Greens.

Rumpole, yes, I said I agreed with it.
In saying that, we have never attended the public system, but have heard from others that they are disappointed in the progress through the years.

 

[Calliope]

Would be interested (just a few main points) of what the Greens are preaching that is bad?

I suggest you will find your answers on the Greens thread. However I think this picture on their policy pages encaptulates their attitude to the vast majority of Australian women who are not Muslim.



WOMEN

The Greens have a long proud history of standing up for Australian women

http://greens.org.au/policy

 

[bellenuit]

The fertility rate of Catholic women in Australia is 1.3...far below the replacement rate of 2.1...so your and Syd's "rabbit' slur is wide of the mark.

The 1.3 replacement rate is not because Catholics follow in principle and in practice the teachings of the Catholic Church, but because the vast majority have been ignoring them for the past 30 years or more.

 

[explod]

None of the responses answer the question WHICH WERE RAISED BY THE CONTEXT OF THE DISCUSSION ON THIS THREAD.

Telling me to go to another thread indicates misunderstanding and an innability to deal with the issue openly. And just casting things aside by using terms such as lefties and greens is rather ignorant in my humble view.
An answer needs to be qualified with WHY?

As an active member of the Greens, involved in helping to formulate policy, I am here to clear up misunderstandings.

 

[Calliope]

The 1.3 replacement rate is not because Catholics follow in principle and in practice the teachings of the Catholic Church, but because the vast majority have been ignoring them for the past 30 years or more.

Exactly!

birth rates in southern Europe have fallen rapidly since about 1980, he said. 'We are now in the bizarre position where Catholic Spain and Catholic Italy are vying for position as the lowest birth rate country.'

Even Catholic Ireland has experienced a remarkable fall in birth rates in recent years.

It is well known that the higher the education levels...the lower the birth rate

Fertility rates have dropped in many parts of the world in recent decades, but something particularly remarkable happened to the once-prolific family across Latin America. From sprawling Mexico to tiny Ecuador to economically buoyant Chile, fertility rates plummeted, even though abortion is illegal, the Catholic Church opposes birth control and government-run family planning is rare.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...ts-in-brazil/2011/12/23/gIQAsOXWPP_story.html

 

[pixel]

Would be interested (just a few main points) of what the Greens are preaching that is bad?

Keep following your conscience / heart / convictions, explod.
That's far more commendable than sitting on the outer and hurling abuse at everyone who disagrees.

As to "right" and "left" labels, it all depends on one's perception or the way one is "wired". Take an ordinary toolbox from Bunnings: If you pick up a right-threaded wing nut, everything with a left twist is wrong. Vice versa the same.

As long as we're not talking bi-polar, the simplest solution seems to be a nail. That's straight-forward, nothing twisted, can't be screwed, and you can always hammer the point home.

 

[SirRumpole]

As long as we're not talking bi-polar, the simplest solution seems to be a nail. That's straight-forward, nothing twisted, can't be screwed, and you can always hammer the point home.

Sometimes they get bent though