Religion IS crazy!

[Julia]

On attribution of miracles: the mother of a friend of mine was diagnosed about two years ago with bladder cancer. She was told it was advanced and not treatable. She was recommended to have an examination every year just to see if it was spreading further. Never any symptoms from this tumour.

Last week the results of the most recent examination came back: there is no tumour. It has completely vanished.

If they'd been religious and prayed to God for deliverance from this tumour, then likely its non-existence would be attributed to the goodness and wonder of God.

Maybe there was an error in the interpretation of the original scan and there never was any tumour?

Maybe it has indeed just vanished and we need to say nothing more than "we don't know what may have happened".
But whatever, to a religious devotee this would probably be considered proof of god fulfilling a prayer.

 

[SirRumpole]

On attribution of miracles: the mother of a friend of mine was diagnosed about two years ago with bladder cancer. She was told it was advanced and not treatable. She was recommended to have an examination every year just to see if it was spreading further. Never any symptoms from this tumour.

Last week the results of the most recent examination came back: there is no tumour. It has completely vanished.

If they'd been religious and prayed to God for deliverance from this tumour, then likely its non-existence would be attributed to the goodness and wonder of God.

Maybe there was an error in the interpretation of the original scan and there never was any tumour?

Maybe it has indeed just vanished and we need to say nothing more than "we don't know what may have happened".
But whatever, to a religious devotee this would probably be considered proof of god fulfilling a prayer.

Most likely a misdiagnosis. Happens all the time. A good recommendation for getting a second opinion.

 

[artist]

.......

Last week the results of the most recent examination came back: there is no tumour. It has completely vanished.

.......

Maybe there was an error in the interpretation of the original scan and there never was any tumour?

Maybe it has indeed just vanished and we need to say nothing more than "we don't know what may have happened".
But whatever, to a religious devotee this would probably be considered proof of god fulfilling a prayer.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312698/

"The spontaneous healing of cancer is a phenomenon that has been observed for hundreds and thousands of years and after having been the subject of many controversies, it is now accepted as an indisputable fact.

.......

Spontaneous regression of cancer is not a rare occurrence as thought to be; in an average month during 2002, medical journals published more than four articles on the subject.
.......

Regression is more commonly associated with groups of tumors like the embryonal tumors in children, carcinoma of the female breast, chorionepithelioma, adenocarcinoma of the kidney, neuroblastoma, malignant melanoma, sarcomas, and carcinoma of the bladder and skin"

 

[herzy]

Lets not get to carried away.



Its Africa and mostly Christian and very very tribal, and Male dominated and poorly policed....anything could be behind that assault.

SC, how exactly did I get carried away?

Obviously the woman was attacked because her attackers viewed her as inappropriately dressed, which is subjective. Call that 'alleged' if you want, but it's semantics.

I'm not saying they did it because they were Christians. I'm just counter-balancing the anti-Islam stuff we see posted here. I do feel that if Muslims had done it, it would because Muslims are evil or Islam incites hatred against women. But when Christians do it, we dismiss it as 'tribal' or some other confounding variable.

As you say, often there are many factors at play (tribal, male dominated, poorly policed...) in both this scenario and much of the Middle East.

 

[Julia]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312698/

"The spontaneous healing of cancer is a phenomenon that has been observed for hundreds and thousands of years and after having been the subject of many controversies, it is now accepted as an indisputable fact.

.......

Spontaneous regression of cancer is not a rare occurrence as thought to be; in an average month during 2002, medical journals published more than four articles on the subject.
.......

Regression is more commonly associated with groups of tumors like the embryonal tumors in children, carcinoma of the female breast, chorionepithelioma, adenocarcinoma of the kidney, neuroblastoma, malignant melanoma, sarcomas, and carcinoma of the bladder and skin"

Yes, thanks, artist.
The point in posting was not particularly to comment on the incidence of either misdiagnosis or spontaneous regression. Rather offering an example of what a religious person who had prayed for a cure of cancer, might attribute to the work of God. In other words, existing bias forming a conclusion which would not be shared by non-religious people.

Isn't something along these lines what some Catholic nun was made a saint for a couple of years ago? I think the name was something like MacKillop. The necessary criteria for sainthood was a couple of 'miracles', I believe.

 

[herzy]

Yes, thanks, artist.
The point in posting was not particularly to comment on the incidence of either misdiagnosis or spontaneous regression. Rather offering an example of what a religious person who had prayed for a cure of cancer, might attribute to the work of God. In other words, existing bias forming a conclusion which would not be shared by non-religious people.

Isn't something along these lines what some Catholic nun was made a saint for a couple of years ago? I think the name was something like MacKillop. The necessary criteria for sainthood was a couple of 'miracles', I believe.

Mary MacKillop

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_MacKillop

 

[Value Collector]

Yes lots of cancer patients are said to be healed by god, you hear anecdotal stories every where, but I can't remember who said it, but some one pointed out that he never seems to help amputees regrow limbs, yet most Christians admit he would have the power to do it if he chose, but yet he doesn't,..... Strange.

 

[bunyip]

Isn't something along these lines what some Catholic nun was made a saint for a couple of years ago? I think the name was something like MacKillop. The necessary criteria for sainthood was a couple of 'miracles', I believe.

Yeh, some of those ‘miracles’ attributed to Catholics who are made saints are quite laughable.
Interesting that it took the Catholic church 70 odd years to decide whether to make Mary Mackillop a saint.....must be plenty of procrastinators in the hierarchy of the RCC!

I wonder what ‘miracles’ Pope John Paul 11 performed to earn his sainthood.
Considering that he gave his blessing to the ‘Legionnaires of Christ’ organization which was run by a priest he was close to who was well known within the church as a junkie, embezzler and pedophile who lured boys and young men into the Legionnaires of Christ and then sexually abused them, the real miracle is that some irate parent didn’t put a bullet in John Paul 11.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_scandal_of_Marcial_Maciel

 

[bellenuit]

Interesting that it took the Catholic church 70 odd years to decide whether to make Mary Mackillop a saint.....must be plenty of procrastinators in the hierarchy of the RCC!

Around the time Mackillop was to be canonised, there were several other people from around the world also to be canonised. Nearly all those being canonised, including Mackillop, were from countries where Catholicism was in decline. I remember thinking at the time that this was just a marketing ploy by the Vatican, to stir up interest in those countries.

 

[bunyip]

You’ve gotta admit that this Raphael feller is pretty darned impressive – he’s not only a people healer extraordinaire with the level of skills that most doctors and naturopaths can only dream of, but he’s an accomplished vet as well.

Thinking about Raphael and his supposed healing abilities, I can only continue to be impressed.
If just one in 200 of the world’s 1.2 billion Roman Catholics believes in Raphael and utilizes his healing abilities, that’s 6 million people putting their health in his hands.
If just 0.2% of these 6 million are feeling unwell on any given day, that equates to around 12 thousand patients a day to whom Raphael administers his healing powers.
12 thousand patients a day??!! - now that’s impressive by any standards! My own doctor can’t even come close to matching those figures! Clearly Raphael has a prodigious capacity for hard work and long hours!

 

[Wysiwyg]

Do Australians think they are immune or protected from this absolute change to society? The following video reveals the Theological Determinism of the religion known as islam. This is happening in the U.K. now where a foothold has been gained and is being built upon.




[video=youtube_share;KaVXXQsAOjM]http://youtu.be/KaVXXQsAOjM[/video]

 

[sydboy007]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...s-hiv-positive-preacher-slept-with-flock.html

On Sunday, September 14, when Reverend Juan McFarland stood behind the pulpit to deliver his sermon, rather than offering the members of Shiloh Missionary Baptist Church in Montgomery, Alabama, a word from the Lord, the minister dropped one hell of a bombshell on his congregants.

According to numerous accounts from Shiloh members in attendance that day, Pastor McFarland told his longtime church family that he had full-blown AIDS.

As if that news wasn’t shocking enough, McFarland, who’s served as Shiloh’s pastor for more than 20 years and allegedly learned of his HIV diagnosis in 2003, also admitted to having numerous sexual encounters with women””some of whom were members of his own church””all the while knowing he was infected with HIV. (A local NBC affiliate reported that, when reached by phone, McFarland had confirmed the details of his revelation.)

What prompted the longtime pastor’s sudden confession? Well, according to those who heard Pastor McFarland’s confessional sermon series, the preacher implied that it was God who told him it was time to confess his sins to his church.

According to Nathan Williams Jr., an 80-year-old member of Shiloh and onetime chairman of the church’s deacon board, some of McFarland’s sexual encounters happened on the church’s property but never in the sanctuary.

“Like that made any difference,” said Williams in an interview.
However, that wasn’t the end of Pastor McFarland’s revelations. On the following two Sundays””yes, he was allowed to remain the pastor for two more Sundays!””McFarland, while sermonizing, added to his initial confession. While it’s unclear what details were disclosed when, in addition to the long list sex-related sins, he also allegedly admitted to using illegal drugs and misappropriating church funds.

That the church didn’t fire McFarland after the first confession is downright unbelievable. Instead, according to one anonymous source who spoke to WSFA, “The church was very accepting of Reverend McFarland and was willing to help him in any way possible.” Deacon Williams seemed to confirm this sentiment, saying, “as Christian people, we wanted him to get well.” He added, “I thought of him as one of my sons.”
The preacher implied that it was God who told him it was time to confess his sins to his church.
Finally, on October 5, the church’s deacon board voted unanimously to remove McFarland as pastor. However, apparently not everybody thought that was a good or fair decision””after the announcement about the firing was made, the news caused an uproar among church members. In fact, the feud became big enough that the Montgomery Police Department was reportedly called in, though no official police report was filed.

What remains unclear is just how many women McFarland may have knowingly put in danger of contracting HIV.

One parishioner””who wanted to remain anonymous”” told Montgomery’s WSFA, “I know a young lady who is a member of the church who says she has slept with him and that she didn't want this to go public, and she running out now trying to find out if there is anything wrong with her. And my heart goes out to her because she's been a wonderful church member, and then for something like this to happen. The fact that he didn't tell them at all. That's a crime in itself.”

Meanwhile, Pastor McFarland isn’t walking away without a fight. The pastor, along with a few of his supporters, has reportedly changed the locks on the church, forcing Williams and other church leaders to seek legal counsel.

Williams told WSFA, “Our moves are going to come directly from counsel. We want peace and we want to do things right, legally. We are not looking to hurt him. We are looking to get the church back. That’s our theme: Get the church back. We want the church back. That’s it.”

Others believe McFarland should be charged.
“Let [a] judge decide if he should go to jail or not,” an unnamed source told the local TV news channel. “We tend to sweep things under the rug, especially if they’re the leader.”

According to the Montgomery Police Department, transmitting a sexually transmitted disease is a class C misdemeanor.

As of press time, no charges have been filed against Pastor McFarland.

 

[DB008]

Do Australians think they are immune or protected from this absolute change to society? The following video reveals the Theological Determinism of the religion known as islam. This is happening in the U.K. now where a foothold has been gained and is being built upon.




[video=youtube_share;KaVXXQsAOjM]http://youtu.be/KaVXXQsAOjM[/video]

Only a matter of time...

 

[bunyip]

Anyone foresee upcoming religious influences on Australian society?

I meant to reply to the above but it slipped my mind.

Islam will have an increasing influence on Australian society, and it’s already happening because we’re stupidly allowing it to happen.
The root cause of the riots in Sydney several years ago was young Lebanese Muslim men targeting young women and calling them sluts and wh***s because of the way they were dressed.
Some areas of Sydney now are so Islamic that they’re almost ‘no go’ zones for non Muslims.
And the factional hatred between Muslims is also becoming a problem within Australia, as seen in the TV docco a few months back on the sectarian violence between Sydney Muslims which resulted in one Muslim being king hit by another Muslim from a different sect in Syria. Seems to me that Muslims hate each other as much as they hate non – Muslims.
As I said in an earlier post, the problem with Muslims is that when they emigrate to a new country they bring with them the problems and attitudes that were the cause of their unhappiness and conflict in their old country. Then little by little they force changes on their new country so that it gradually becomes like their old country where they were so unhappy.
And we, the 98% of Australians who are non – Muslim, allow it to happen by bending over backwards to cater to the demands of the 2% who are Muslims. We learn nothing from what we see happening in other countries where Muslims have caused immense problems anywhere they’ve gained a foothold.

When Dutch politician Geert Wilders came to Australia to tell us about the enormous problems his country has landed itself with by laying out the welcome mat to Islamists, and to try and warn us that we’ll face the same trouble from Muslims here in Australia unless we take steps to prevent it, he was ridiculed and condemned by many stupid people, including twits like Q & A host Tony Jones, and that airhead Mark Dreyfus who served as Attorney General in the Gillard government.
Our politicians, particularly on the Labor side, continue to learn little or nothing from the negative experiences of other countries who have allowed mass Muslim immigration. Only recently we had Bill Shorten stating that we should increase our intake of people affected by the recent troubles in the Middle East. That poor silly bastard never learns....he was one of the senior members of the Rudd government whose ridiculous limp-wristed policy flooded us with illegal Muslim immigrants, and yet it’s clear that Shorten would repeat their mistake if he ever became PM. He flatly states that a Labor government would not turn back the boats – you don’t have to be too bright to work out that this would once more cause a flood of illegal Islamic immigrants to Australia.
Now some half witted doctor and some human rights lawyer moron want to make beautiful Tasmania a dumping ground for illegal Islamic immigrants. How downright stupid and irresponsible and inconsiderate towards Tasmanians can you get!

About the only positive I can see in this entire Islamic business is that baby boomers like me will quite likely have passed on before Australia goes completely to rack and ruin at the hands of Islam.
Good luck to anyone who thinks Muslims will just slot in and become ordinary Aussies like the millions of immigrants from other religions and countries who have come down to Australia and quickly fitted in and become one of us. What a rude awakening you’re in for! By the time you wake up and open your eyes it’ll probably be too late. It probably already is.

 

[Calliope]

Good luck to anyone who thinks Muslims will just slot in and become ordinary Aussies like the millions of immigrants from other religions and countries who have come down to Australia and quickly fitted in and become one of us. What a rude awakening you’re in for! By the time you wake up and open your eyes it’ll probably be too late. It probably already is.

Bunyip,there is little chance of the present generation of Islamists who were born here of slotting in. Take for example the four brothers who absconded to Syria to kill infidels.

The brothers all lived at home in Sydney’s western suburbs with their Lebanese-born mother, their father, who works as a taxi driver, and their teenage sister.

It is understood the youngest was studying for his HSC at a public high school and the older brothers had stable jobs before they left.

To all intents and purposes they had slotted but they never lose the barbarity instilled in them by their religion, and which excuses any barbarity on their part providing it is against infidels, or with IS, other muslims they regard as inferior.

Unlike other Australians recruited to IS, the siblings were not known to authorities and had not been on any watch lists.

Dr Rifi said the brothers were religious, but not “hard line or radical”.

So there you go. And there are probably thousands of men and boys like them, with no real grievances to speak of, against us, who are itching to join the IS and lop off a few heads and end up in paradise.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/th...to-islamic-state/story-fni0fiyv-1227125456838

 

[bunyip]

Bunyip,there is little chance of the present generation of Islamists who were born here of slotting in. Take for example the four brothers who absconded to Syria to kill infidels.



To all intents and purposes they had slotted but they never lose the barbarity instilled in them by their religion, and which excuses any barbarity on their part providing it is against infidels, or with IS, other muslims they regard as inferior.



So there you go. And there are probably thousands of men and boys like them, with no real grievances to speak of, against us, who are itching to join the IS and lop off a few heads and end up in paradise.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/th...to-islamic-state/story-fni0fiyv-1227125456838

A Sydney mother has been devastated by the news that her four sons ”” aged 17, 23, 25 and 28 ”” have been lost to the barbaric jihadist group.
The brothers all lived at home in Sydney’s western suburbs with their Lebanese-born mother, their father, who works as a taxi driver, and their teenage sister.

Calliope – I’d wager that the parents of these boys have done next to nothing to leave their oppressive religion behind them in the country they came from, and start a completely new life in Australia, free from the attitudes and constraints of Islam. You can't start a new life in a new country by recreating the life you left behind in your old country.
I’ll bet they still dress like Muslims, think like Muslims, have the same backward attitudes of Muslims, pray several times a day to Allah, and have made little effort to fit into our lifestyle and culture and become one of us.
If that’s the case then the parents are partly responsible for the choice their sons have made.

 

[Wysiwyg]

When Dutch politician Geert Wilders came to Australia to tell us about the enormous problems his country has landed itself with by laying out the welcome mat to Islamists, and to try and warn us that we’ll face the same trouble from Muslims here in Australia unless we take steps to prevent it, he was ridiculed and condemned by many stupid people, including twits like Q & A host Tony Jones, and that airhead Mark Dreyfus who served as Attorney General in the Gillard government.

I have just watched that interview with Geert Wilders (is that a wig ) and Tony Jones on You Tube. Jones does the right thing and scans Wilders for b.s. With sincerity and truth, Wilders gob smacks Jones every time. Wilders observations are seen as alarmist because people think if there are any issues then government or police will deal with them. That to me is the best route to take. There is no doubt that sharia law is restrictive, regressive, intolerant, criminal, cruel and nonsense and that is what Wilders message is.

 

[Tisme]

A Sydney mother has been devastated by the news that her four sons ”” aged 17, 23, 25 and 28 ”” have been lost to the barbaric jihadist group.
The brothers all lived at home in Sydney’s western suburbs with their Lebanese-born mother, their father, who works as a taxi driver, and their teenage sister.

Calliope – I’d wager that the parents of these boys have done next to nothing to leave their oppressive religion behind them in the country they came from, and start a completely new life in Australia, free from the attitudes and constraints of Islam. You can't start a new life in a new country by recreating the life you left behind in your old country.
I’ll bet they still dress like Muslims, think like Muslims, have the same backward attitudes of Muslims, pray several times a day to Allah, and have made little effort to fit into our lifestyle and culture and become one of us.
If that’s the case then the parents are partly responsible for the choice their sons have made.

Well you know how first colonists are:- they wipe out the existing society, subjugate the residents, force convert them to some religious nonsense and the despotic regime is complete. It might be a tough road ahead for the Arabs, but with persistence and perseverance, mixed with lack of will from the locals, they might get Oz over the line as a barbarian caliphate some time in the future

 

[Value Collector]

A Sydney mother has been devastated by the news that her four sons ”” aged 17, 23, 25 and 28 ”” have been lost to the barbaric jihadist group.

Perhaps if she had instilled some scepticism in them, and raised them with a bit of doubt and not told them the Qu'ran was the infallible word of a god things might have been different.

 

[SirRumpole]

Perhaps if she had instilled some scepticism in them, and raised them with a bit of doubt and not told them the Qu'ran was the infallible word of a god things might have been different.

Maybe if she told them that eating pork was fine they may have opened a spare rib restaurant instead of going to war.