Religion IS crazy!

[Wysiwyg]

But for some reason they just can’t seem to do that.

The quran says so. The fanatics and moderates read the same book. While one mob plays out a chapter in Iraq/Syria the other mob works a chapter to fit the society to their approval on a moderate level. Please keep Aussies informed so they can can accept or reject the direct challenge to our non-religious-controlled way of life in Australia.

 

[herzy]

I’m opposed to food being certified on religious grounds, and the certification fees going to any religion.

I’m not opposed to foods being certified for health reasons, such as organic certification or gluten-free certification.

Interesting. On one level (being anti-religion), I agree with you. On another level though, it's just supply/demand, so I don't really care if companies do it.

Would you consider vegan to be 'health' or ideological? What if there are, say, fish scales used to make beer - it doesn't affect health, but wouldn't classify as vegan.

What about non-religious Jews and Muslims - who prefer the meat because they have an almost innate feeling that it's inherently unclean unless kosher/halal, but don't actually practice the religion?

Much easier to just let the markets do their thing

 

[bunyip]

The quran says so. The fanatics and moderates read the same book. While one mob plays out a chapter in Iraq/Syria the other mob works a chapter to fit the society to their approval on a moderate level. Please keep Aussies informed so they can can accept or reject the direct challenge to our non-religious-controlled way of life in Australia.

Therein lies just one of the problems with religions.....some of their members get so devoted to their magic books and the instructions contained within, that common sense goes out the window and they don’t think rationally.
The more fanatical the religion, the more common sense is replaced with stupidity.

 

[bunyip]

Would you consider vegan to be 'health' or ideological?

I know very little about vegan - I have no opinion on it.

What about non-religious Jews and Muslims - who prefer the meat because they have an almost innate feeling that it's inherently unclean unless kosher/halal, but don't actually practice the religion?

Even if these people don't actually practice their religion, such 'innate feelings' are based on religious beliefs that are irrational and illogical - for example, the view that a pig is unfit for human consumption because he doesn’t chew the cud.
It’s nonsensical for anyone to believe they’ll suffer some fearful fate because they eat meat from a certain animal, or because the animal wasn’t slaughtered according to religious beliefs and customs.
The only reason anyone believes this nonsense is because of what it says in in their magic book, and because it’s brainwashed into them from early childhood.
If they bothered to think about it rationally and logically and with a modicum of common sense, they’d throw out these silly ideas as the more sensible people among them do.

 

[bunyip]

I’d never heard of ‘Raphael the archangel’ until today when a fanatically religious relative claimed that someone she knows who is going in for complex and risky neurological surgery will be safe because Raphael the archangel will be there with them to ensure the success of the operation.
Apparently the outcome won’t have much to do with the skill of the surgeon and the rest of the medical team.....a successful outcome will be the work of good ol’ Raphael.

Having never heard of this Raphael character before, I jumped on Google to check out him/her/it. And I have to say, when it comes to weird and completely unsubstantiated religious beliefs, this one is right up there with the best of them!
According to what I’ve learned on Google, Raphael is the angel of healing who works to heal people's minds, spirits, and bodies so they can enjoy peace and good health to the fullest. One woman on the website was even asking Raphael to heal her dog and her cat as well as herself!

Anyway, it all sounds like a pretty good deal to me. I mean, I’m probably wasting my time with those two to three hour walks each day starting at 4am to try and stay fit and healthy. And perhaps I don’t need my healthy eating plan and my low stress lifestyle to look after mind and body. From now on I can just hand over the job of my personal health management to Raphael.
Of course I’d have to believe in him first, and that might be the hardest part. How anyone can believe in this sort of stuff is beyond me....I don’t see me joining their ranks any time soon.

 

[herzy]

I know very little about vegan - I have no opinion on it.




Even if these people don't actually practice their religion, such 'innate feelings' are based on religious beliefs that are irrational and illogical - for example, the view that a pig is unfit for human consumption because he doesn’t chew the cud.
It’s nonsensical for anyone to believe they’ll suffer some fearful fate because they eat meat from a certain animal, or because the animal wasn’t slaughtered according to religious beliefs and customs.
The only reason anyone believes this nonsense is because of what it says in in their magic book, and because it’s brainwashed into them from early childhood.
If they bothered to think about it rationally and logically and with a modicum of common sense, they’d throw out these silly ideas as the more sensible people among them do.

I agree that it's irrational and silly, but it's still the way they feel. I meant to distinguish personal preference from an actual religious value (I do know have a lot of friends who call themselves Jewish, don't eat pork, and celebrate the holidays, but aren't remotely spiritual). Equally, some people may not like the idea of palm oil being in their products (for environmental reasons), and wish for that to be labelled. Although one seems more logical to me (and assumedly you too), it's still ultimately a matter of opinion.

This is, however, way off topic - Bunyip feel free to read my comments in the halal-dedicated thread if you're interested.

 

[herzy]

I’d never heard of ‘Raphael the archangel’ until today when a fanatically religious relative claimed that someone she knows who is going in for complex and risky neurological surgery will be safe because Raphael the archangel will be there with them to ensure the success of the operation.
Apparently the outcome won’t have much to do with the skill of the surgeon and the rest of the medical team.....a successful outcome will be the work of good ol’ Raphael.

Having never heard of this Raphael character before, I jumped on Google to check out him/her/it. And I have to say, when it comes to weird and completely unsubstantiated religious beliefs, this one is right up there with the best of them!
According to what I’ve learned on Google, Raphael is the angel of healing who works to heal people's minds, spirits, and bodies so they can enjoy peace and good health to the fullest. One woman on the website was even asking Raphael to heal her dog and her cat as well as herself!

Anyway, it all sounds like a pretty good deal to me. I mean, I’m probably wasting my time with those two to three hour walks each day starting at 4am to try and stay fit and healthy. And perhaps I don’t need my healthy eating plan and my low stress lifestyle to look after mind and body. From now on I can just hand over the job of my personal health management to Raphael.
Of course I’d have to believe in him first, and that might be the hardest part. How anyone can believe in this sort of stuff is beyond me....I don’t see me joining their ranks any time soon.

+1. I've always lamented the fatal flaw of the (scientifically proven to be effective!) placebo It always seems to be out of reach when I need it.

 

[pavilion103]

Important to differentiate between mythical beings and historical people. Not all faith claims are equal. In fact they are not even close.

 

[Value Collector]

I’d never heard of ‘Raphael the archangel’ until today when a fanatically religious relative claimed that someone she knows who is going in for complex and risky neurological surgery will be safe because Raphael the archangel will be there with them to ensure the success of the operation.
Apparently the outcome won’t have much to do with the skill of the surgeon and the rest of the medical team.....a successful outcome will be the work of good ol’ Raphael.
.

It's a no lose bet for them,

Friend gets healed = Raphael is real, and blessed the procedure

Friend dies on the table = God is mysterious, has a plan and my have needed another angel.

Important to differentiate between mythical beings and historical people. Not all faith claims are equal. In fact they are not even close.

Are you saying Raphael the "archangel" is a historical person.

 

[Wysiwyg]

Anyone foresee upcoming religious influences on Australian society?

 

[Ruby]

Important to differentiate between mythical beings and historical people. Not all faith claims are equal. In fact they are not even close.

Are you able to differentiate between the mythical beings and historical people in your faith Pav?

 

[herzy]

Here's one for the pro-Christian, Islam haters out there.

[video]http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201411131934-0024345[/video]

Video here:


Woman gets attacked and stripped for dressing inappropriately. Men are jeering and laughing (and pulling her clothes off). Kenya is 70% devout Christian.

It's interesting that I haven't seen this on Western media - only Al Jazeera.

Could media portrayal cause us to over-vilify Islam and under-criticise Christianity?

 

[bunyip]

I agree that it's irrational and silly, but it's still the way they feel. I meant to distinguish personal preference from an actual religious value (I do know have a lot of friends who call themselves Jewish, don't eat pork, and celebrate the holidays, but aren't remotely spiritual). Equally, some people may not like the idea of palm oil being in their products (for environmental reasons), and wish for that to be labelled. Although one seems more logical to me (and assumedly you too), it's still ultimately a matter of opinion.

This is, however, way off topic - Bunyip feel free to read my comments in the halal-dedicated thread if you're interested.

You're right, Herzy, this is off topic. I'll just make one last comment on the matter by saying that I've eaten quite a few pigs in my time, and they weren't the slightest bit dirty or unclean because they didn't chew the cud. (which is one of the requirements of the Jewish faith for animals to be considered fit for human consumption).

And those grunters tasted pretty damn good too!

I may have a look at the halal thread - I wasn't aware of its existence.

 

[bunyip]

Human imagination at its best is evident in the many stories on the net from people who claim to have actually seen or spoken to Raphael the archangel.
One woman said she was thinking of Raphael when next thing a beautiful green light floated in from the sea and entered her living room.
Others too have claimed to have seen this green light that was definitely Raphael.
Another one claimed that Raphael ‘spoke to her from the clouds’!

Nothing new here – I’m sure many of us have had experiences where we were expecting to see or hear something, and next thing we 'saw' it or 'heard' it only to discover a second or two later that our mind was just playing tricks on us.
Just a few days ago about 6 in the evening I was expecting my wife home from town. Next thing I heard the sound of tyres on our driveway and I looked out and saw her car coming in. The image and the sound looked and sounded like the real thing, except that it was only my mind’s eye deceiving me – it was another ten or fifteen minutes before she arrived home.
I can relate other experiences where I was thinking of something, and next thing I saw and/or heard it as clear as day, only to discover that I didn’t really hear or see it at all.
So I can see how an avid believer in angles and other such fantastic beings could ‘see’ and ‘hear' them and be absolutely convinced that what they’d seen and heard was real.

Equally interesting is to read some of the requests people send out to their pal Raphael. The one I liked best was from the woman who asked Raphael to not only fix up her health problems, but to cure her cat and dog as well.

You’ve gotta admit that this Raphael feller is pretty darned impressive – he’s not only a people healer extraordinaire with the level of skills that most doctors and naturopaths can only dream of, but he’s an accomplished vet as well.

 

[bunyip]

It's a no lose bet for them,

Friend gets healed = Raphael is real, and blessed the procedure

Friend dies on the table = God is mysterious, has a plan and my have needed another angel.

I think it’s called ‘God’s divine plan’.

Someone cashes in his chips instead of pulling through a medical crisis and returning to good health – it was part of God’s ‘divine plan’.

Someone beats the odds and recovers his health....praise be to God and his right hand man Raphael the archangel.

You can see why religion likes to get people in early childhood and indoctrinate them while they’re young and impressionable.
The odds would be against anyone believing this stuff if they head it for the first time when they were adults.

 

[bellenuit]

What I find interesting regarding the concept of angels is the depiction of them having wings. Although the Bible only alludes to 1 or 2 specific angels (I can't recall which) as being winged, the various Christian churches have always portrayed angels as winged creatures. There is an equivalent in Islam with Mohammad ascending to Heaven on a winged horse.

Since Heaven was always regarded as somewhere "up there" which could only be got to by some sort of flight and as the only animals that ever were seen to be capable of flight were birds, it is obvious why angels and Mohammad's horse would need to be winged to get to heaven. Note also how when humans die and go to heaven, they are said to be taken by the angels (well they are the ones with wings). Little did they know at that time that the air density needed to support winged flight only went up twenty or so kilometres and beyond that gradually became a vacuum in which wings would be useless. It didn't matter that Heaven was somewhere up in the stars well outside our atmosphere.

This again shows that religious stories are man made constructions not fact and written based on the limited understanding of science at that time.

 

[Value Collector]

What I find interesting regarding the concept of angels is the depiction of them having wings. Although the Bible only alludes to 1 or 2 specific angels (I can't recall which) as being winged, the various Christian churches have always portrayed angels as winged creatures. There is an equivalent in Islam with Mohammad ascending to Heaven on a winged horse.

Since Heaven was always regarded as somewhere "up there" which could only be got to by some sort of flight and as the only animals that ever were seen to be capable of flight were birds, it is obvious why angels and Mohammad's horse would need to be winged to get to heaven. Note also how when humans die and go to heaven, they are said to be taken by the angels (well they are the ones with wings). Little did they know at that time that the air density needed to support winged flight only went up twenty or so kilometres and beyond that gradually became a vacuum in which wings would be useless. It didn't matter that Heaven was somewhere up in the stars well outside our atmosphere..

Are you saying if we created the stories today, angels would be wearing rocket backpacks and space suits.

 

[bunyip]

What I find interesting regarding the concept of angels is the depiction of them having wings. Although the Bible only alludes to 1 or 2 specific angels (I can't recall which) as being winged, the various Christian churches have always portrayed angels as winged creatures. There is an equivalent in Islam with Mohammad ascending to Heaven on a winged horse.

Since Heaven was always regarded as somewhere "up there" which could only be got to by some sort of flight and as the only animals that ever were seen to be capable of flight were birds, it is obvious why angels and Mohammad's horse would need to be winged to get to heaven. Note also how when humans die and go to heaven, they are said to be taken by the angels (well they are the ones with wings). Little did they know at that time that the air density needed to support winged flight only went up twenty or so kilometres and beyond that gradually became a vacuum in which wings would be useless. It didn't matter that Heaven was somewhere up in the stars well outside our atmosphere.

This again shows that religious stories are man made constructions not fact and written based on the limited understanding of science at that time.

The biblical story of Jonah and the whale is another case in point. Jonah was a naughty boy, and God was so ticked off with him that he banished poor old Jonah to live inside a whale for several months, or was it years.
The primitive story tellers of the day would have assumed that a huge animal like a whale must have a massive throat that would be well and truly capable of swallowing a man whole.
Little did they know that whales eat plankton and other tiny marine life, and have a smallish throat canal that would be incapable of accommodating a human.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100122193315AA7VxtL

 

[So_Cynical]

Here's one for the pro-Christian, Islam haters out there.

[video]http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201411131934-0024345[/video]

Woman gets attacked and stripped for dressing inappropriately. Men are jeering and laughing (and pulling her clothes off). Kenya is 70% devout Christian.

It's interesting that I haven't seen this on Western media - only Al Jazeera.

Could media portrayal cause us to over-vilify Islam and under-criticise Christianity?

Lets not get to carried away.

In the video, reportedly taken at a bus stop, the woman is seen surrounded by men who assault her for allegedly dressing improperly.

Its Africa and mostly Christian and very very tribal, and Male dominated and poorly policed....anything could be behind that assault.

 

[bunyip]

What I find interesting regarding the concept of angels is the depiction of them having wings. Although the Bible only alludes to 1 or 2 specific angels (I can't recall which) as being winged, the various Christian churches have always portrayed angels as winged creatures.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111216121809AAZXV5a

One of the biblical stories has angels being so smitten with some of the most beautiful women on earth that they came down from heaven and mated with them.
An interesting concept indeed.....I wonder if the resulting babies had wings?