"Quotes" to trade by!

[tech/a]

..tech/a, can you not appreciate the difference between yourself and realist? for him the share price represents only an opportunity to buy, beyond that it is virtually irrelevant. history proves the "in the long term the stock market is a weighing machine" theory.

both methods are proven to work if followed correctly so why are you always putting him down? different strokes for different folks.

Realist, can you not appreciate the difference between yourself and tech/a? for him the share price represents only an opportunity to buy, beyond that it is virtually irrelevant. history proves the "in the long term the stock market is a weighing machine" theory.

both methods are proven to work if followed correctly so why are you always putting him down? different strokes for different folks

 

[Realist]

Today's winners are often yesterday's losers.



So they would no longer be a loser then!

Exactly!

But I will buy them at a cheaper price than you would.

 

[tech/a]

But I will buy them at a cheaper price than you would.

Which at the point of entry you would not know if they will turn into a winner.

At the time of buying they will have for a time been a loser.

If you bought and the price still continued down then you'd be holding a loser.
The difference between you and I is
I wouldnt be in it in the first place,and if a stock I initially bought pulled back to my stop I would sell it.You on the other hand would probably purchase more.

So you would be compounding my point of losers hold losers.
You would feel very happy that you were able to buy more at this "cheaper" price.
Where as I would possibly buy more as the price rose in a stock I was holding.

Realist I feel you have a lot to learn.
I learnt/learn heaps when I traded/trade my methodology live.
Why not pick a few as they come up and test your theory?
My veiw is its the road to ruin.

 

[Realist]

Which at the point of entry you would not know if they will turn into a winner.

At the time of buying they will have for a time been a loser.

If you bought and the price still continued down then you'd be holding a loser.
The difference between you and I is
I wouldnt be in it in the first place,and if a stock I initially bought pulled back to my stop I would sell it.You on the other hand would probably purchase more.

So you would be compounding my point of losers hold losers.
You would feel very happy that you were able to buy more at this "cheaper" price.
Where as I would possibly buy more as the price rose in a stock I was holding.

Realist I feel you have a lot to learn.
I learnt/learn heaps when I traded/trade my methodology live.
Why not pick a few as they come up and test your theory?
My veiw is its the road to ruin.

Well you buy shares based on share prices, I buy companies based on Market Caps.

I collect dividends, and reduce tax, you try and make quick profits, leverage yourself and are prepared to pay the cost of doing business with tax, interest and brokerage...

Over the short term in a bull market you will outperform me, over the longterm in any market I will outperform you. The power of compounding and tax reduction is too powerful for anyone to beat. There's no trader worth even 1/100th of Buffett.

 

[cuttlefish]

No, I always take my losses quickly. That is probably the key to my success. You can always put the trade back on, but if you go flat, you see things differently.

Greater clarity?

Much greater clarity because the pressure you feel when you are in a position that is not working puts you in a catatonic state.

Swingstar - thats a very useful comment from Marty - cheers.

 

[Realist]

Swingstar - thats a very useful comment from Marty - cheers.

I noticed in the PDN thread how traders jumped in, then jumped out, then jumped in, each time paying brokerage and tax.

Just holding they'd have made mega-bucks.

 

[professor_frink]

Over the short term in a bull market you will outperform me, over the longterm in any market I will outperform you.

Thems fightin' words Realist :shoot: :bigun2:

 

[Realist]

Thems fightin' words Realist :shoot: :bigun2:

Harsh, but fair...

Traders do not compound and therefore after many years they can't compete...

 

[tech/a]

I collect dividends,

So do I but not at the expense of holding a nett loser.

and reduce tax,

So do I by holding it over 12 mths but not at the expense of holding a nett loser.

you try and make quick profits,

No I do make consistent profit.Most of my holds are over 1 yr so Id hardly call that quick.

leverage yourself and are prepared to pay the cost of doing business with tax, interest and brokerage...

Consistent profit means I can leverage with confidence.
I pay the least tax I am leagal required to because I profit.
Interest is covered by dividends and is tax deductable and brokerage is negligable with only around 30 trades a year in each System I trade.

over the longterm in any market I will outperform you.

Id have a bet with you but you couldnt afford to pay me.
Ducati is attempting to do just that now.
Both results are public.

I'm learning more each week about duc's method---nothing I would adopt at this stage--but that may alter if it proves to be as Duc expects.
I have strong doubts.

 

[professor_frink]

Harsh, but fair...

Traders do not compound and therefore after many years they can't compete...

:nono:

Harsh, and completely inaccurate

 

[Realist]

Id have a bet with you but you couldnt afford to pay me.
Ducati is attempting to do just that now.
Both results are public.

Hahaa, what a ridiculous and incorrect assumption.

And what a ridiculous bet, I intend to hold FGL, RIN, CBA and WDC etc. for 20 or more years.

You'll be dead by the time I am making a million a year off shares

 

[Realist]

Consistent profit means I can leverage with confidence.

Just how many share market crashes have you encountered recently?

That does not mean we will not have one tomorrow and you (and me) will get smashed. The difference is I wont get a margin call, and my companies are fairly valued, solid and not too specualtive so will not fall as much as most of yours...

And if you think you can just jump out when you see the price falling or that you can predict a crash think again!

 

[tech/a]

Yep.
I was right a lot to learn.

Carry on.

 

[Realist]

Yep.
I was right a lot to learn.

Carry on.

Haha, I'm no expert on trading, I do have alot to learn and I am studying hard. I admit it!! I wish I was a great trader of course, and am willing to keep learning.

however....

You wont admit you do not understand the power of fundamental investing, value, tax reduction, compounding, dollar cost averaging, diversification, and buying when prices go down not up!!

 

[tech/a]

Yes we differ on most fronts.

 

[Realist]

I dislike gAyFL, but I will be supporting anyone playing any team from Adelaide from now on!!

 

[ice]

I dislike gAyFL, but I will be supporting anyone playing any team from Adelaide from now on!!

Is that a quote to trade by?


ice

 

[Realist]

Is that a quote to trade by?


ice

My sports betting tip...

Bet on the home team!!

 

[coyotte]

Just how many share market crashes have you encountered recently?

That does not mean we will not have one tomorrow and you (and me) will get smashed. The difference is I wont get a margin call, and my companies are fairly valued, solid and not too specualtive so will not fall as much as most of yours...

And if you think you can just jump out when you see the price falling or that you can predict a crash think again!

Totaly agree about the the " predict " part , leave that for the Gurus
But " jump out when the price is falling " --- well traders have a thing called a STOP LOSS and this could be applied by the most nieve investor :


As for " brokerage, taxes and costs etc " get a decent accountant , thats his job , yours is to make a profit --- not lame excuses for failing to act .

Can not " compound " ? --- utter rubbish , profits are added to the BANK enabling the trades to grow in position size over time .

Why would I get a margin call , if I haven't borrowed ---- deadly any how.
Your companies are fairly valued ? NO NO NO --- NOT YOUR COMPANIES ---the directors companies -- we the shareholders are the mugs they feed on -- fatal error, forms attachment --- besides the value of anything is what next BUYER is willing to pay .

If you think you can make more money by " holding + divs " I,ve been long/short OXR since late 2005 , I just paid 3c div (short ) peanuts, compared to what these investers are losing --- if you doubt this just check my posts in the OXR thread -- even a school kid can see this stock is in a severe down tread ( my grandkids can ) .



Cheers

 

[Freeballinginawetsuit]

Which at the point of entry you would not know if they will turn into a winner.

At the time of buying they will have for a time been a loser.

If you bought and the price still continued down then you'd be holding a loser.
The difference between you and I is
I wouldnt be in it in the first place,and if a stock I initially bought pulled back to my stop I would sell it.You on the other hand would probably purchase more.

So you would be compounding my point of losers hold losers.
You would feel very happy that you were able to buy more at this "cheaper" price.
Where as I would possibly buy more as the price rose in a stock I was holding.

Realist I feel you have a lot to learn.
I learnt/learn heaps when I traded/trade my methodology live.
Why not pick a few as they come up and test your theory?
My veiw is its the road to ruin.

Nice point T/A and highlights the difference between a TRADER and an INVESTOR. Traders trade the market, Investors don't.

Risk measures are an essential tool of the TRADER, especially in the current market. Most of the time with our trailing stops we don't make the absolute highs but we get close to it!. If our entry point fails we get hit at the POR we have charted and we are out with our capital at say a 5% loss. Free to invest in a winner or the same stock at perhaps a further 15% drop in SP.

For me personally most of my trailing stops got hit on the last correction day. The majority were trailers and had large profits, but a few were from the trades the previous few days earlier (and I probably lost 30k on these).

My point is that with my stops all my capital was then available. My trades since on ZFX made all my stops back. RSG and MRE took me up 10% each and I'M looking good on BMN at the moment. Ive traded a few other quickies since then also.

A total of about 30% return on my Capital in the last two weeks and absorbing the correction, but still taking the opportunity to make money off it.

On Realists trading methodology he wouldn't have sold and would still be waiting for his Investments to come back up!.