National poverty - The new normal?

[moXJO]

Yes I understand all that, but it's rare for them to go after small business and thus the small business disruption reputation isn't warranted, regardless of their anxiety for closed shop workplaces on larger projects.

If a small business wants to leap into big projects then the EBA will make it a protected business and able to increase its sell price and profit, because that is the playing field.

In some ways it forces a business from being a gutter feeder with skinny margins and lowest price hand to mouth marketing model, into a properly run business with training, plans, profit, organised workforce, etc. The worst part of it is having to answer to an ar5ehole union rep when he feels like revving you up over safety, wages, and closed shop card carriers, but if you get the profit greed under control then it can be a lucrative long term business.

There is a reason the Lend Leases of this world are successful and profitable and it wasn't come about by bad mouthing unions, rather embracing them and partnering with them.

Thats where the labor party comes in.
Change legislation and make small business vulnerable or having to jump through hoops.
And I agree you do make more siding up with them. But they already have their preferred clients.

And don't get me wrong. I think unions are still needed. There are just as many ahole business owners exploiting workers.

 

[orr]

Thank you for the thread start Bas.
Being 'poor' is a slippery concept in a country where you are empowered by a democratic process, that in theory gifts you as an individual, in our case about a 1/25th millionth of the worth of a continent.
Something the industry lobbyists will never mention.
The management of that wealth by our elected governments appears to expose some gaping inadequacy's. Despite our efforts we haven't completely 'screwed the pooch'. The last thirty odd years of Neo-Conservative Rationalism are being exposed as the idealogical folly, understood by many, that it always was. It will be the unpicking of that deliberately manufactured 'distemper' that will prove the mettle of the near future political leadership of the nation.
Any hack treasurer will give you what is our 'National debt' as a dollar figure. What is our National worth?
We Collectively (if that term makes you squirm, you neeed to have a little think) own a Continent....

 

[SirRumpole]

Australia super funds investing in affordable housing (in the US).

What the ???

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-...helping-create-affordable-homes-in-us/8760896

 

[qldfrog]

Thank you for the thread start Bas.
Being 'poor' is a slippery concept in a country where you are empowered by a democratic process, that in theory gifts you as an individual, in our case about a 1/25th millionth of the worth of a continent.
Something the industry lobbyists will never mention.
The management of that wealth by our elected governments appears to expose some gaping inadequacy's. Despite our efforts we haven't completely 'screwed the pooch'. The last thirty odd years of Neo-Conservative Rationalism are being exposed as the idealogical folly, understood by many, that it always was. It will be the unpicking of that deliberately manufactured 'distemper' that will prove the mettle of the near future political leadership of the nation.
Any hack treasurer will give you what is our 'National debt' as a dollar figure. What is our National worth?
We Collectively (if that term makes you squirm, you neeed to have a little think) own a Continent....

Orr considering that we gift collectively that continent to farmers and mining companies who dare including in"taxes we paid" the ridiculously low price we sell them our continent resources, he would be a fool who thinks he owns anything with his citizenship;
what we as citizen own is fuel excise rebates, loasn to adani, a billion into clean coal research (not kidding: with the aim of zero emission coal....).
We owe the debt, we buy the land, we give the country, and no it is not only a neo con issue.
As I remember our friend Julia G was given full power by the puppet master after some fool started to challenge the statu quo
I should be named cynical, not qldfrog

 

[qldfrog]

very interesting wake up call:http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/fed...-as-job-prospects-worsen-20170801-gxn0yb.html

 

[moXJO]

very interesting wake up call:http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/fed...-as-job-prospects-worsen-20170801-gxn0yb.html

For me personally its better off under labor money wise. Plenty of stimulus.
Eventually it runs out though. Libs are generally tightwads.

 

[qldfrog]

For me personally its better off under labor money wise. Plenty of stimulus.
Eventually it runs out though. Libs are generally tightwads.

I worked in mining so wealth reflected the mining boom and crash, and being in qld, more affected than anywhere else by recession with no name:
0 job gain and 30000 extra public servants under labor state gov, says it all.
Anyway, I see both sides as incompetent since 2005 or so, but they are elected so...

 

[Tisme]

I worked in mining so wealth reflected the mining boom and crash, and being in qld, more affected than anywhere else by recession with no name:
0 job gain and 30000 extra public servants under labor state gov, says it all.
Anyway, I see both sides as incompetent since 2005 or so, but they are elected so...

You only have to look at the QLD public sector reports to see that the 30k extra public service is a lie concocted by the Murdoch LNP Party. It's actually about 10k.

You must not believe anything Newscorp prints, because it's pretty much all lies when it comes to Labour, labor, working class and anyone else their born to rule attitude believes are low life.

 

[moXJO]

I worked in mining so wealth reflected the mining boom and crash, and being in qld, more affected than anywhere else by recession with no name:
0 job gain and 30000 extra public servants under labor state gov, says it all.
Anyway, I see both sides as incompetent since 2005 or so, but they are elected so...

I'm talking more fed rather than state.
I'm still talking about incompetence though.
As an example:
Young bricklayer I knew ran out and got an insulation blower (couple of grand) during that insulation scheme. Found groups of townhouses and hopped from roof to roof blowing that crap in.
He ended up paying off a $500000 mortgage during the schemes life.

Plenty of upside and downsides during labor govt. But its always unsustainable in the end.

 

[SirRumpole]

Plenty of upside and downsides during labor govt. But its always unsustainable in the end.

The Turnbull government's NBN doesn't look all that sustainable at the moment.

https://www.crn.com.au/news/govt-calls-for-investigation-into-nbn-complaints-469853

 

[Value Collector]

The rich are getting richer and the poor have nothing.
The divide is extremely unhealthy.

The rich are getting richer, but so are the "poor".

Pick the worst job you can think of from the 1920's, 30's, 40's or 50's. Now compare the conditions that person worked in and what their pay provided them to what a similar positions conditions and pay are and I think you will find things have improved.

 

[SirRumpole]

The rich are getting richer, but so are the "poor".

Pick the worst job you can think of from the 1920's, 30's, 40's or 50's. Now compare the conditions that person worked in and what their pay provided them to what a similar positions conditions and pay are and I think you will find things have improved.

It depends on how you measure things doesn't it ?

The Reserve Bank governor says that wealth inequality is getting worse. I'd have to believe an independant judge over Scott Morrison who says the opposite is the case.

 

[Value Collector]

It depends on how you measure things doesn't it ?

The Reserve Bank governor says that wealth inequality is getting worse. I'd have to believe an independant judge over Scott Morrison who says the opposite is the case.

If in the year 2000 you earn $100 and I earn $200,

Then over 10 years our wages double, so you earn $200 and I $400, I guess you can argue that the rich is getting richer, and there is in equality because your wage increased $100 and mine increased $200, but the fact is we both are better off.

---------------------

But yes, unskilled workers are going to find it harder to make ends meet, because the value of unskilled labour is dropping, while the value of skilled labour is rising, and also the value of capital is rising, because more and more capital is replacing unskilled labour.

 

[Smurf1976]

I'm talking more fed rather than state.
I'm still talking about incompetence though.
As an example:
Young bricklayer I knew ran out and got an insulation blower (couple of grand) during that insulation scheme. Found groups of townhouses and hopped from roof to roof blowing that crap in.
He ended up paying off a $500000 mortgage during the schemes life.

Much the same with the Liberals at least at a state level (and not just in one state but most).

Get rid of however many public servants and replace them with contractors, often the exact same people, at several times the cost and with the cost of administering the contracts on top. Seen that one play out many times.

Neither party gives a damn about spending taxpayer's funds efficiently. All that differs is who the beneficiaries are.

 

[SirRumpole]

But yes, unskilled workers are going to find it harder to make ends meet, because the value of unskilled labour is dropping, while the value of skilled labour is rising, and also the value of capital is rising, because more and more capital is replacing unskilled labour.

Which means that governments are going to have to start taxing capital more because they simply won't get the revenue from employees that they did in the past.

Bill Gates suggested taxing machines and software which are the real money earners these days, and that sounds like a good idea.

 

[qldfrog]

You only have to look at the QLD public sector reports to see that the 30k extra public service is a lie concocted by the Murdoch LNP Party. It's actually about 10k.

You must not believe anything Newscorp prints, because it's pretty much all lies when it comes to Labour, labor, working class and anyone else their born to rule attitude believes are low life.

just want to say that people are poorer and noticebly here in Queensland , not really in a labour/lnp war as I find both as incompetent and nearly criminally so due to the corruption we have now.

 

[qldfrog]

If in the year 2000 you earn $100 and I earn $200,

Then over 10 years our wages double, so you earn $200 and I $400, I guess you can argue that the rich is getting richer, and there is in equality because your wage increased $100 and mine increased $200, but the fact is we both are better off.

---------------------

But yes, unskilled workers are going to find it harder to make ends meet, because the value of unskilled labour is dropping, while the value of skilled labour is rising, and also the value of capital is rising, because more and more capital is replacing unskilled labour.

rare monent where I can agree with VC but still nice disagreement on:"unskilled workers are going to"-> is already there
and "while the value of skilled labour is rising" ->in your and my dream!!
Hard to find more skilled than I am, and yet rate do fall.Not crying poor but definitively falling and very lucky to have the experience: % of uni graduates with no/low paid job ;
I understand that all of uni degrees are not the same but hard STEM/engineering/IT etc =>market is bad and we are just starting to see the impact of AI into making white collar jobs irrelevant: architect/finance/medecine/law/IT/engineering ->you name it

 

[Tisme]

just want to say that people are poorer and noticebly here in Queensland , not really in a labour/lnp war as I find both as incompetent and nearly criminally so due to the corruption we have now.

Spare a thought for our West Australian mates. Their assets are going negative, the tradies are grubbing for money, the economy is flat lining bordering on third world South Australia status, etc.

But here in QLD we can always put on our castaway pants, dreadlock wigs, fake tan and live quite well on the Goldie, Sunny and Cairns esplanades with only social security payments.... no shelter required.

 

[qldfrog]

Spare a thought for our West Australian mates. Their assets are going negative, the tradies are grubbing for money, the economy is flat lining bordering on third world South Australia status, etc.

But here in QLD we can always put on our castaway pants, dreadlock wigs, fake tan and live quite well on the Goldie, Sunny and Cairns esplanades with only social security payments.... no shelter required.

I do not deny this, and a day on the sunshine always lift the spirit up, especially if you avoid people!!!

 

[Value Collector]

rare monent where I can agree with VC but still nice disagreement on:"unskilled workers are going to"-> is already there
and "while the value of skilled labour is rising" ->in your and my dream!!
Hard to find more skilled than I am, and yet rate do fall.Not crying poor but definitively falling and very lucky to have the experience: % of uni graduates with no/low paid job ;
I understand that all of uni degrees are not the same but hard STEM/engineering/IT etc =>market is bad and we are just starting to see the impact of AI into making white collar jobs irrelevant: architect/finance/medecine/law/IT/engineering ->you name it

What you are feeling is fluctuations in the market, not a trend.

EG, the mining boom caused skilled labour prices to go artificially high, and the crash caused them to go artificially low for a while.

But skilled labour in general has increased in value, especially where its specialised and scalable, But un skilled labour is going to be on a downward trend, demand for unskilled labour is shrinking.