More Religious Nuts

[2020hindsight]

Perhaps one day you can ask him.

Good post Wayne, good to see some actual reasoning.

see weird , YOU claimed that the church has sound scientific backing - believes in evolution I believe you said - or tolerates it whatever. ...

so what do you suggest that the church should do about it's scientific credentials, considering it took almost 400 years to "forgive" Galileo.

 

[weird]

see weird , YOU claimed that the church has sound scientific backing - believes in evolution I believe you said - or tolerates it whatever. ...

so what do you suggest that the church should do about it's scientific credentials, considering it took almost 400 years to "forgive" Galileo.

Scientific backing ... no such claim, it has been called faith all along.

I am about to duck out, so won't be able to respond for abit, and saying this off the cuff, and I could be wrong,

but my current understanding is that the Jesuit's put Galileo comfortably under house arrest, with complete access to all scientific equipment, and Galileo was heavily under attack by Protestants at the time.

I completely respect Protestants , their historical research into the old and new testament, by historical scholars (not the self-serving morning crew most people scorn, but actual research) has been useful to all.

 

[2020hindsight]

... the Jesuit's put Galileo comfortably under house arrest, ...

bit like Aung San Suu Kyi maybe?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aung_San_Suu_Kyi

now there's a modern day Jesus (imo)

 

[wayneL]

BTW

The Big Bang was originally proposed by.... a catholic priest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître

Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 – June 20, 1966) was a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate, professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic University of Leuven. He sometimes used the title Abbé or Monseigneur.
Lemaître proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, which he called his 'hypothesis of the primeval atom'.[1][2][3]

::

 

[2020hindsight]

Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître

way to go joe

 

[wayneL]

way to go joe
</delete annoyingly trivial graphic>

You won't like the inference from the original theory.

 

[2020hindsight]

I take it you're suggesting he proposed that theory with the Pope's blessing?

 

[wayneL]

BTW, while researching this, here's a nice little spray that could neatly cross over into a number of theories, with little modification.

Open minds folks.

CONCLUSION

Astrophysics pseudo-skeptics like Bridgman have certain recognizable characteristics in common.

1. They speak down to their audience using 'arguments from authority'.
2. They refuse to consider any electrical causation for anything in space.
3. When confronted with =in your face evidence' such as the image of a high redshifted QSO in front of a more distant, low redshifted galaxy, they resort to arguments (usually involving math or statistics) to disprove – or at least make you doubt – what your eyes are telling you. The old Groucho Marx line comes to mind: “Who you gonna believe? Me? Or your lying eyes?”
4. They put forward their assumptions as if they were universal truths. The fact that they have been voted upon and accepted by a self-involved, insular group of 'experts' does not make them true. Winning a hand vote is not the same thing as scientific validation.
5. It is clear that they have never been exposed to the basic properties of plasma nor the fundamental inter-relationships between magnetic fields and electric currents. But they feel free to lecture those who have.
6. If the pseudo-skeptic has a monetary interest (such as maintaining a funding stream or a salary) his criticisms often become vituperative.

 

[weird]

BTW

The Big Bang was originally proposed by.... a catholic priest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître


::

lol, yup ...

 

[Julia]

what i question is our "true" knowledge of the facts" (bearing in mind that todays facts may in fact be tomorrows fiction) ----- i prefer to believe everything yet believe nothing --- while accepting that anything is possible, yet may change at any given moment ----

Indeed. Sane thinking, Cartman, not confused at all.

well if you go to the youtube, you'll see these details given



....

2020 why is it so damn difficult for you to simply accede to the request to give a brief description of the content of your interminable videos, rather than forcing anyone with a possible mild interest to actually have to start playing them? Just a single sentence would suffice.

 

[trainspotter]

Is it just me or have we completely LOST our way? This has turned into a debate over ecumenical matters and those who opppose their POV. With links to youtube thrown in (guilty myself but mine was of camp Jesus being hit by a bus) so can we please get back onto reporting about RELIGIOUS NUT JOBS?

Like this bloke: Man beat daughter over church refusal, court told 1:26PM Thursday Jul 09, 2009

A 55-year-old man who beat his daughter over the head with a lump of concrete when she refused to go to his Mormon church "does not understand what all the fuss is about", Hastings District Court has heard. Uluia Muliipu appeared in court after pleading guilty to one count of assault with intent to injure. Judge Geoff Rea said on February 22 this year Muliipu had become involved in an argument with his daughter who refused to attend church.

He chased her down the street and back into the house picking up a lump of concrete along the way. He then whacked her over the head in a bedroom with the concrete causing skin on her head to split and start bleeding.

They were both "covered in blood" and he kicked her in the face causing bruising. "When police arrived you told them your daughter was lucky you did not kill her," Judge Rea said. He took his shirt off and ran into the laundry where he attempted to rinse the blood out of the shirt. When told by police to desist he continued rinsing the shirt and blocking their way before he was pepper sprayed.

His daughter was taken to Hawke's Bay Hospital with head injuries. Defence lawyer Roger Stone told the court Muliipu had been angry his daughter refused to go to church. He had been under stress before the incident.

He was a "proud" man who was "disappointed" his daughter had elected not to follow his Mormon faith. Mr Stone said blood on Muliipu's shirt came from him hugging his daughter just before police arrived at his house.

Judge Rea said a probation officer's report made "grim reading" because he "still does not understand what all the fuss is about".

He had been ejected from an anger management course because of his views and had an inability to understand "whacking someone on the head is unacceptable". In the circumstances there was only one response and that was imprisonment. Muliipu was sentenced to 12 months in jail.

Now this may be a case of ugly parent syndrome when daughter decides she doesn't want to go to church with Daddy BUT .... never mind.

 

[2020hindsight]

1. Like this bloke: Man beat daughter over church refusal, ....
whacked her over the head in a bedroom with the concrete causing skin on her head to split and start bleeding....
"daughter was lucky did not kill her"
...
2. He was a "proud" man who was "disappointed" his daughter had elected not to follow his Mormon faith.

3. Mr Stone said blood on Muliipu's shirt came from him hugging his daughter just before police arrived at his house.

4. ... an inability to understand "whacking someone on the head is unacceptable".

in reverse order ...
4. inability to understand violence unacceptable
3. inability to understand that blatant lies - it was from hugging her - only compound the "sin" - (PS for "sin", read "criminally devious mind")
2. proud of himself - based on his idea of his christian morals no doubt
1. no doubt he'd criticise the Moslem practice of stoning people to death. (equally barbaric of course - doh).

There's an old fairly sick joke ... "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone " .. "thud" ... " sometimes Mother dear .." etc. An oldie and not very goodie.

I'm reminded of a Mormon boy who killed his father (with some justification as I recall - physical abuse etc - but the boy sounded like a problem child) . Anyway the sentencing judge made him enlist for 3 years missionary work ! - lol - "go forth, boy, spread the good word to the ignorant masses overseas - like in Australia for instance!!"

We had Mormon missionaries come by our house a few times when I was a boy , "poaching" christians from other christian "clubs". (Mum was fairly religious, and too polite to tell them to go jump). Anyway, we soon tired of the nonsense - and I'm sure they'd be more use in Africa or India - I always thought of missionaries as people out there doing good stuff - felt like telling them to go follow the footsteps of Mother Teresa - you get a better CV and a better hearing at the Pearly Gates I'm sure.
Try going to a place that doesn't have a MacDonalds on every second corner...
yeah right.

 

[2020hindsight]

As for this next article, authenticity unknown ... probably true you'd have to say.
Bludy gruesome yarn , Man cuts out daughter's tongue , then burns her to death ... etc (for becoming a christian)

http://www.southasianconnection.com...ther-Kills-Daughter-For-Accepting-Christ.html
Muslim Father Kills Daughter For Accepting Christ
By The Christian Messenger Published 10/23/2008

A Saudi Arabian man cut out the tongue of his daughter and burned her to death after finding out that she had converted to Christianity.
....
The killer works for the mutaween (Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice), an arm of the government that enforces religious purity

But of course you could then go on to talk about Jonestown etc etc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

Jonestown was the informal name for the "Peoples Temple Agricultural Project", an intentional community in northwestern Guyana formed by the Peoples Temple, a cult from California, United States, led by Jim Jones. It became internationally notorious when, on November 18, 1978, 918 people died in the settlement as well as in a nearby airstrip and in Georgetown, Guyana's capital. The name of the settlement became synonymous with the incidents at those locations.

909 Temple members died in Jonestown, all but two from apparent cyanide poisoning in an event termed "revolutionary suicide" by Jones and some members on an audio tape of the event and in prior discussions. The poisonings in Jonestown followed the murder of five others by Temple members at a nearby Port Kaituma airstrip. The victims included Congressman Leo Ryan, the first and only Congressman murdered in the line of duty in the history of the United States.

Jonestown would have to be the perfect example of man's weakness for this stuff, no doubt arising from some deep insecurity possibly about death - and also his vulnerability to mass hypnosis.

Like the Moonies ... ahh heck, lol the list is too long. My wife met some Moonies in San Fran when she was travelling way back when - the 70's. They invited them (she and a girlfriend) back to some commune with view to indoctrination - they were amazed at the trance-like state the rest of them were in ... she never forgets "the sheep farmer from NZ" lol - sitting there crosslegged, bleating like a sick sheep, - with her friend - a Kiwi nurse - great bird lol , funny as - trying to click her fingers in front of his eyes and making loud noises to try to wake him out of it lol.

 

[bunyip]

Is it just me or have we completely LOST our way? This has turned into a debate over ecumenical matters and those who opppose their POV. With links to youtube thrown in (guilty myself but mine was of camp Jesus being hit by a bus) so can we please get back onto reporting about RELIGIOUS NUT JOBS?
.

Yes, these discussions always end up drifting away from the topic of the thread, and we'll all guilty of doing it.

That's why I put up a new thread titled 'All Things Religious'...at least in there we can discuss any matter at all relating to religion, without getting off topic.

 

[bunyip]

Trainspotter

Loved the cartoon in Post 574

 

[trainspotter]

*shrugs* Thanks Bunyip ... just fighting the good fight.

 

[Timmy]

Another tragic, tragic story of religious nuts. This time an 11 year-old girl dies for her parents' misguided beliefs.

Mother of dead girl: sickness was test of faith

The mother of an 11-year-old girl who died of undiagnosed diabetes as the family prayed for her to get better has testified that she believes sickness is caused by sin and can be cured by God...
"I asked her if she loved Jesus," the mother testified. "She might have said yes. I know for sure she was acknowledging it. What sounds came out, I don't remember. She was making noises ... My focus definitely was to pray."

 

[2020hindsight]

tragic all right Timmy. - Wisconsin bit of a worry you'd have to say

she didn't take the girl to a doctor because that would have been "complete disobedience to what we believe".

PS Ancient Greek Sylligism....“From nothing, nothing comes; Something is, therefore something eternally was”

 

[bunyip]

Another tragic, tragic story of religious nuts. This time an 11 year-old girl dies for her parents' misguided beliefs.

Mother of dead girl: sickness was test of faith

The mother of an 11-year-old girl who died of undiagnosed diabetes as the family prayed for her to get better has testified that she believes sickness is caused by sin and can be cured by God...
"I asked her if she loved Jesus," the mother testified. "She might have said yes. I know for sure she was acknowledging it. What sounds came out, I don't remember. She was making noises ... My focus definitely was to pray."

I wonder if these sort of people ever learn from their stupidity, or whether their views remain largely unchanged. Quite likely the latter.
Not much different really, to Jehovah's Witnesses who will let a loved one bleed to death rather than authorise a life-saving blood transfusion.

 

[trainspotter]

It would certainly test my sense of faith (If I had any) They would reason that it was Gods will and she/he is in a better place blah blah and BLAH. I thought they locked people up under the mental health act when you have an imaginary friend?