Let Oz Car Industry Die

[Sean K]

Yes kennas,

That is the only argument for keeping it.

gg

Yeah GG, I suppose my question then is can we keep these skills somewhere else that is relevant and not a drain on the average tax payer?

Clearly we can't compete on building cars but is there something else that we are already doing that is niche, like mining, that we should be fostering, or what? Perpahs instead of cars the subsidies should be in mining engineering equipment, that includes the trucks and diggers etc? It's the same skill set surely. Ditch the Camry and build a Caterpillar.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

Yeah GG, I suppose my question then is can we keep these skills somewhere else that is relevant and not a drain on the average tax payer?

Clearly we can't compete on building cars but is there something else that we are already doing that is niche, like mining, that we should be fostering, or what? Perpahs instead of cars the subsidies should be in mining engineering equipment, that includes the trucks and diggers etc? It's the same skill set surely. Ditch the Camry and build a Caterpillar.

Yes k, I'd agree. Since first starting this thread I have had a change of opinion and feel we should keep it, one never knows when one is going to need defence equipment and materiel or as you point out a vigorous equipment manufacturing base for mining.

gg

 

[Tyler Durden]

Now tourism wants some money, just as I thought, when one puts out their hands, others will follow. But I doubt tourism will get anything; Holden can give a brand new car to politicians, but tourism has nothing of much value to offer.

On another note, I was talking to my friend today about starting a business. He said there was no way I'd succeed because the cost of hiring someone is too high in Australia. Perhaps that's the main cause of the problem?

 

[Smurf1976]

Good comments Kennas.
I would add also some protection. Look at other countries and they have protection of 30% or more plus certain other schemes such as limits to imports. This is especially true of Brazil and Europe but also the USA, Malaysia to name a few.

If we provided some protection we wouldn't need to provide as much support.

As someone who would like to see manufacturing in general continue in this country, all I ask is that we introduce tariffs or other protection which matches that of other countries.

The only place where "free trade" exists is in an economist's head. In the real world. just about all our competitors have both protection and fewer taxes on production (payroll tax and carbon tax being the most notable ones). Even if Australian manufacturers are well above average efficiency, they would still fail financially given the assistance provided to rivals.

 

[Smurf1976]

Perpahs instead of cars the subsidies should be in mining engineering equipment, that includes the trucks and diggers etc? It's the same skill set surely. Ditch the Camry and build a Caterpillar.

The actual production at Caterpillar for their underground mining equipment is quite differently arranged from my understanding of how a mass production car factory works.

The main difference is that a car factory basically "stamps them out" in thousands whereas you have a much smaller volume of higher value vehicles produced at the Cat underground mining equipment factory and is less automated.

But at least we do have an apparently viable industry making mining equipment in Australia which is a good thing in my opinion.

 

[prawn_86]

On another note, I was talking to my friend today about starting a business. He said there was no way I'd succeed because the cost of hiring someone is too high in Australia. Perhaps that's the main cause of the problem?

I dont runa business personally, but if yo are make sure it is small enough that you can get it all done without employing many people. Red tape & Payroll tax etc is a killer from what i hear

 

[Tyler Durden]

I dont runa business personally, but if yo are make sure it is small enough that you can get it all done without employing many people. Red tape & Payroll tax etc is a killer from what i hear

Yes that is along the lines of what he said, that the only way I'd make it work was if I did the work myself. Kinda crappy because I was looking to start a business where I could employ others and just receive passive income on top of my 9-5 job.

 

[Julia]

Yes that is along the lines of what he said, that the only way I'd make it work was if I did the work myself. Kinda crappy because I was looking to start a business where I could employ others and just receive passive income on top of my 9-5 job.

What line of business do you have in mind, Tyler?

 

[Tyler Durden]

What line of business do you have in mind, Tyler?

A mobile service driven to people's homes.

 

[Julia]

A mobile service driven to people's homes.

You're not going to tell us in what field?

I'm reminded of a ute I saw a while ago. Emblazoned across the side was:

"Mobile Gardener"

The "Mobile" seemed somewhat redundant. One can hardly expect that you'd take the garden to the gardener.

 

[McLovin]

Yes that is along the lines of what he said, that the only way I'd make it work was if I did the work myself. Kinda crappy because I was looking to start a business where I could employ others and just receive passive income on top of my 9-5 job.

Anyone who thinks running a small business will be "passive" in any way, shape or form hasn't run a small business.

 

[Tyler Durden]

You're not going to tell us in what field?

I'm reminded of a ute I saw a while ago. Emblazoned across the side was:

"Mobile Gardener"

The "Mobile" seemed somewhat redundant. One can hardly expect that you'd take the garden to the gardener.

That'd give away my idea

Anyone who thinks running a small business will be "passive" in any way, shape or form hasn't run a small business.

I really haven't

 

[Smurf1976]

A mobile service driven to people's homes.

Not having a go at you personally, but isn't this a classic example of the problem?

Car manufacturing, as an alternative to imports, benefits Australia as a nation by retaining wealth in this country which would otherwise be sent overseas. And if we export the cars or other goods then it brings money into Australia from overseas.

In contrast, no amount of dog washing, lawn mowing or other household services can be exported or replace imports. It simply creates a market where none existed previously, and results in some money being sent out of the country in the process (since the petrol to run the vehicle is partly imported, there will almost certainly be some imported equipment used etc).

There's nothing wrong with household or other service industries as such, but no amount of dog washing, lawn mowing, ironing, taking holidays and nights out can replace the economic role of manufacturing, agriculture, fishing, mining etc.

 

[Glen48]

Go see the bank's and find out who looks after their repo houses doing board up ,clean up, trash out as the yanks say, maintenance etc that's were the money will be for as good few years check out that educational skool You tube and have a look around the web at trash outs.
Banks like green lawns not green swimming pools.

 

[young-gun]

Go see the bank's and find out who looks after their repo houses doing board up ,clean up, trash out as the yanks say, maintenance etc that's were the money will be for as good few years check out that educational skool You tube and have a look around the web at trash outs.
Banks like green lawns not green swimming pools.

so i should throw on my budgie smugglers and start cleaning pools is what your saying? sign me up. good luck with starting up the bus. tyler. just about to start myself. both exciting and scary.

 

[Julia]

Go see the bank's and find out who looks after their repo houses doing board up ,clean up, trash out as the yanks say, maintenance etc that's were the money will be for as good few years check out that educational skool You tube and have a look around the web at trash outs.
Banks like green lawns not green swimming pools.

I can only speak for my own area, but all these services exist in ridiculously large numbers. Every week there are more leaflets in the letterbox from people offering to do everything from housework/window cleaning/ car cleaning/pool cleaning, etc.

There are a few who are kept in work via real estate agents.

 

[joea]

Clearly we can't compete on building cars but is there something else that we are already doing that is niche, like mining, that we should be fostering, or what? Perhaps instead of cars the subsidies should be in mining engineering equipment, that includes the trucks and diggers etc? It's the same skill set surely. Ditch the Camry and build a Caterpillar.

To re-tool an existing manufacturing line is an enormous job and extremely expensive.
To then produce a vehicle that is already in production by someone else, the retooled plant could never compete.
In the Weekend Australian an article(by Kim Carr) explains that we subsidies the Australian auto industry $US18 per person(not per taxpayer).
In USA its $US96/head and Germany $US90/head.
Kim Carr is saying that there are 46,000 direct jobs and 200,000 in related industries.
So one would think that the industry is worth saving.

Another point is the Australian public is not going to go to the race tracks to watch a couple of Japanese cars race.
At Bathurst I mean, or the V8 series.
Or Japan versus South Korea.
Obviously. Bob Brown would be delighted to shut racing down.
Actually does anybody know what Bob watches on telly, you cannot see anything if its not turned on can you?(saving power).

Anyway Carr says there will be no surrender under Labor.
Perhaps he should explain to Gillard and Swan, if they did not stuff up the economy, people would have money to buy Australian cars.
Kim Carr is certainly supporting something that is worthwhile and Abbott's crew should be helping him out. But it is the "hidden happenings" that the public are not aware of,
that are more effective than a news paper article.
joea

 

[Eager]

Anyway Carr says there will be no surrender under Labor.
Perhaps he should explain to Gillard and Swan, if they did not stuff up the economy, people would have money to buy Australian cars.
Kim Carr is certainly supporting something that is worthwhile and Abbott's crew should be helping him out. But it is the "hidden happenings" that the public are not aware of,
that are more effective than a news paper article.
joea

I rarely watch morning TV but I caught a story the day after last weeks announcement was made and I felt like kicking the telly in. The so-called expert that the host was interviewing launched straight into an attack on the industry by saying "Australians just don't want these gas-guzzling dinosaurs anymore" or similar.

People DO have the money to buy Australian cars; they just choose not to. It is comical to see a woman trying to put the weekly shopping in the back of a new Hilux, a car more expensive to buy, more expensive to maintain and service, and which uses a more expensive fuel than a bread-and-butter Falcodore that would be eminently more suitable and provide far greater value for money. The local car industry has been talked down too much; the products made here are actually quite good but suffer from the perception that they do not provide value for money. In fact they are very economical to run and maintain for what they are - and for what they are capable of.

I have read reports that suggest that if you whacked a BMW badge on the back of an Aussie built family car, you could easily sell it for double the price.

 

[Glen48]

Julia
That is true but the money is going to be in trash out were the bank is foreclosing on the the FHOB or house prices double every 7 yrs victim hey are forced to move out so they load the car with the bare essentials,the can opener is more important than the 2k plasma , box of matches better than the 2k fridge, granddads urn etc are all left behind because the rules of life have change from buying things they can't afford to impress people they don't know to looking after themselves and finding food, water, shelter.

The bank's then need some one with a dumpster to dump every thing and make the house presentable to sell on a flooded market.
look up trash outs on the web.

 

[Macquack]

Julia
That is true but the money is going to be in trash out were the bank is foreclosing on the the FHOB or house prices double every 7 yrs victim hey are forced to move out so they load the car with the bare essentials,the can opener is more important than the 2k plasma , box of matches better than the 2k fridge, granddads urn etc are all left behind because the rules of life have change from buying things they can't afford to impress people they don't know to looking after themselves and finding food, water, shelter.

The bank's then need some one with a dumpster to dump every thing and make the house presentable to sell on a flooded market.
look up trash outs on the web.

Glen48, you style is quirky, your comments often cryptic but you have to be the most entertaining poster on ASF.

BTW, the $2k plasma they could not afford to buy to impress the people they don't know is now worth $2.