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Let Oz Car Industry Die

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MrBurns said:
Agree also ---
Geelong is stuffed I really dont know how they'll survive after this, just look at Detroit
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Worth noting that the oil refinery in Geelong is being sold by Shell.

Generally speaking, when big companies sell assets like that it's only a matter of time until they are closed completely. A smaller company buys it up and runs it until things wear out and then it's game over. Seen that one before.....
 
Smurf1976 said:
Worth noting that the oil refinery in Geelong is being sold by Shell.

Generally speaking, when big companies sell assets like that it's only a matter of time until they are closed completely. A smaller company buys it up and runs it until things wear out and then it's game over. Seen that one before.....
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Yes a tragedy in the making , Geelong should be developed into the Silicon Valley of Australia...
 
aarbee said:
Unions and Labour pollies talk as if the sole reason for businesses is to provide employment. God forbid if they have the idea of turning a profit as a motive. The real tragedy is that they actually appear to believe in this. They would tax businesses and squeeze them out in every way to increase labour remuneration even if it kills the industry. Talk about killing your golden goose!!!

What we need is a Maggie Thatcher to beat some sense into the unions. Unfortunately, even the Libs don't seem to have any one in the leadership with the gumption to do what is necessary. Perhaps, the rot is too deeply set in our system. The slightest hint of anything that Labour can relate to Work Choices prompts them to shout their throats hoarse about how the sky is going to fall. Tragically, it does seem to have a traction in public opinion and leads to the Coalition politicians scampering to distance themselves from it.

R&D, innovation, services etc is what our country is good at and have advantage over our competitors in the world. Reducing funding from Universities is a great way of killing that Golden Goose too. Looks like Labour, in order to please their Union Masters will do everything to stifle businesses and dumb down the nation.

End of Rant!!!
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How right you are.

Maybe when unemployment reaches double digits then they'll put work choices back in. Problem is the union thugs and gangsters believe they have the right to high wages while working less hours and then when the industry collapses they blame everyone except themselves.

Or we can just all vote for Clive Palmer for PM! I'm sure he'll show unions who's boss
 
I think the loss of the 'Falcon six' is a disaster, it is probably the most robust, cheapest to maintain and in the long term cheapest to run car in Australia.
How many Ford Falcon taxis do you see, like all of them, 95% of taxis are 6 cyl falcons. Why? because they run forever and are cheap to fix.
How many Toyota Camry or Nissan Maxima taxis, none.

Wait untill the owners of the Mazda2 want a new radiator.lol Wait untill the owner of the VW Golf requires a timing belt, new clutch or heaven forbid a DSG gearbox rebuild.

The best outcome, would be for the Holden and Ford workers to band together and take over the ford plant. Then at least you have an Australian product made by Australians for Australians.:xyxthumbs
 
sptrawler said:
Wait untill the owners of the Mazda2 want a new radiator.lol Wait untill the owner of the VW Golf requires a timing belt, new clutch or heaven forbid a DSG gearbox rebuild.
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I get your point and you are probably correct.

But most car buyers these days don't actually keep the car that long. If you're buying new then, for most people, major repairs will be fully covered by warranty (or insurance if an accident) and the car will be sold by the time it's necessary to actually pay for parts. And if you're a second hand car buyer then your choices are pretty much set by what new car buyers are doing.

The big problem with Ford however, from my own experience at least, relates to customer service. I've dealt with them on plenty of occasions regarding fleet vehicles and it's always the same cheap service. I don't expect a red carpet to be rolled out, but I do expect them to answer the phone during business hours and I do expect them to have parts in stock for current model vehicles rather than doing "patch up" jobs and making excuses. Suffice to say that Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan and VW dealers don't seem to have these problems. :2twocents
 
Smurf1976 said:
I get your point and you are probably correct.

But most car buyers these days don't actually keep the car that long. If you're buying new then, for most people, major repairs will be fully covered by warranty (or insurance if an accident) and the car will be sold by the time it's necessary to actually pay for parts. And if you're a second hand car buyer then your choices are pretty much set by what new car buyers are doing.

The big problem with Ford however, from my own experience at least, relates to customer service. I've dealt with them on plenty of occasions regarding fleet vehicles and it's always the same cheap service. I don't expect a red carpet to be rolled out, but I do expect them to answer the phone during business hours and I do expect them to have parts in stock for current model vehicles rather than doing "patch up" jobs and making excuses. Suffice to say that Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan and VW dealers don't seem to have these problems. :2twocents
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Trust me smurph, they are all the same. I just sold a 2005 VW Golf 2.0l tdi, it needed a timing belt, quote $1600 also on a couple of occassions I smelt clutch. So I enquired how much for a replacement, was quoted $3000.
Time to move it on.
A friend of mine who runs a radiator business, was telling me a certain Japanese small car company, allows 17hrs labour to replace a radiator.lol
As for the Ford, like I said 99.9% of taxi drivers can't be wrong.:D
They run the car that gives them the best $/km return.
But it's all over, just another brick in the wall, in two generations people will be wondering what happened to the "lucky country".IMO
 
sptrawler said:
As for the Ford, like I said 99.9% of taxi drivers can't be wrong.:D
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That's just because the taxi companies negotiated a contract with ford to supply them cars. Nothing to do with reliability. Ford just probably gave them the best deal or they're on a 20yr contract to supply cars

I went to Cairns last year and all the taxis are Prius there. I'm guessing Toyota got the contract up north
 
Dowdy said:
That's just because the taxi companies negotiated a contract with ford to supply them cars. Nothing to do with reliability. Ford just probably gave them the best deal or they're on a 20yr contract to supply cars

I went to Cairns last year and all the taxis are Prius there. I'm guessing Toyota got the contract up north
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+1. I see enough prius taxi's and even a few VW with diesel engines. Also I think it might have been something to do with the fact that you could either get these (fords and holdens) from the factory with LPG or without the petrol fuel assembly which would make it much cheaper to retrofit to LPG.
 
Dowdy said:
That's just because the taxi companies negotiated a contract with ford to supply them cars. Nothing to do with reliability. Ford just probably gave them the best deal or they're on a 20yr contract to supply cars

I went to Cairns last year and all the taxis are Prius there. I'm guessing Toyota got the contract up north
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That is the biggest load of crap I've heard, ask any taxi driver, why they run a falcon. By the way I don't have a falcon or a ford.
Just stating a fact, as it has always interested me why most taxis are falcons, I just ask all the taxi drivers.:D

What they say is a commodore is only good for 300 - 400,00k's whereas a falcon is good for 750-1mk's.
Apparently the suspension, and drive train is more robust.

Then again, probably best not to ask them, then you wouldn't be able to make off the cuff remarks, with no basis.:xyxthumbs
 
The problem for Ford is not just the cost of building cars here. They don't build the cars enough people want to buy in the domestic market to make manufacturing here financially viable. No export business meant they were the most vulnerable to any downturn in market share and Falcon sales have simply crashed. Paying a company $100M/yr in subsidies to build cars in Aus with no plan to expand production for export is just silly for a small, highly competitive market like ours. Ford's business plan here was a failure and deserved no more support.

I accept that there are compelling arguments for subsidizing local car manufacturing but Ford's approach to local manufacturing was doomed. Holden is on the brink as well, with local Commodore and Cruze sales critical to any decision to keep manufacturing here beyond 2012 (seems unlikely).
 
Does anyone remember VW's back in the 90's? I always thought that was a pretty crap car brand, but look around now, and they seem to have re-invented themselves.
 
That is the biggest load of crap I've heard, ask any taxi driver, why they run a falcon. By the way I don't have a falcon or a ford.
Just stating a fact, as it has always interested me why most taxis are falcons, I just ask all the taxi drivers.

What they say is a commodore is only good for 300 - 400,00k's whereas a falcon is good for 750-1mk's.
Apparently the suspension, and drive train is more robust.
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Why not ask a mechanic. I was one a few careers ago and my brother still owns a workshop.

Falcons are a little cheaper to maintain but I see twice as many Falcons in his workshop than Commodores.
Falcons probably are a little more robust in the drivetrain but the Holden V6 engines are much better.:2twocents
 
Tyler Durden said:
Does anyone remember VW's back in the 90's? I always thought that was a pretty crap car brand, but look around now, and they seem to have re-invented themselves.
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same with Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, Honda and pretty much every brand except Holden and Ford.

And it's not just the quality, they improved what matters the most these days - size and fuel efficiency. Here you have Holden making their 6L 300kw HSV saloon to get on every front cover car magazine and the quiet Japanese and Koreans tiptoe through the back door and took over the market.


Maybe in 20 years time, the chinese will take over the market but you can't really reverse engineer quality, can you...
 
Maybe in 20 years time, the chinese will take over the market but you can't really reverse engineer quality, can you...
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They said the same thing about the Japanese then the Koreans. Chinese will definitely make quality cars in the future it's inevitable .India though not so sure LOL:cautious:
 
FxTrader said:
Holden is on the brink as well, with local Commodore and Cruze sales critical to any decision to keep manufacturing here beyond 2012 (seems unlikely).
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I'm willing to make a pretty serious bet that Holden will continue manufacturing in Australia beyond 2012. :D

Seriously, I agree with your point. Ford (and Holden) need to build the cars people actually want to buy. Regardless of what is wrong or right, they need to supply what the market wants.
 
The thing about this situation that gets me is the lack of Import duties.
Both sides of politics had a role in reducing import duties to zero decimating every manufacturing industry in Australia. Why for what reason when most other countries have trade protection?
IMO its similar to the Carbon tax the pollies big noting themselves by frontrunning most other countries so they can say look at me.:banghead:
 
The thing is Holden is holding up fairly well considering they have just realised the new Commodore.
Plus they have being exporting for many years as well.:2twocents
Here's the total top ten vehicle sales for 2012cars12.JPG
 
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