Kevin Rudd

trainspotter · 16 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

EGGSACKERY moXJO ... Liberals are notorius for having ill informed advisers hanging off them. Malcolm Turnbull is renknowned for being a self righteous prat who will not listen to anyone else. Labor has the best spin advisers and consultants herding them through the mire of grubby politics. Carefully planned strategists who understand the power of the media and the gestualtions required to woo the public. Liberals look at the whole political landscape as a "business" that requires fixing to become profitable. Labor uses the good ship "Credit Card" to burden us with yet again more debt. The amount they are racking up has melted the plastic it has been swiped so many times. I only hope this recovery or "boom" will be enough to wipe out the interest and the principal to a manageable level when these egalitarians get voted out !

Duckman#72 · 16 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Julia said:
The government had lined up the ETS as a trigger for a double dissolution election, but Malcolm Turnbull denied them this with his last minute agreement.

So now they are focusing on the private health rebate changes, just defeated, and vowing to bring this back before the end of the year, even calling Parliament back at considerable cost to vote on it again in December.

Meantime, all of Labor are denying that they are looking for an early election trigger. Rubbish. They would like to go to the polls with an early election before having to deliver the next Budget which will surely contain many new taxes and charges to pay for the wasteful largesse delivered so far.

How utterly stupid that we will see essential services, health, education, and god knows what else, cut in order to pay for $900 stimulus cheques that were in many cases wasted, not to mention amounts like $250,000 for a one pupil school! It just beggars belief.

I hate to admit it, but Rudd and his cronies have hit on a masterplan.

They would love for the trigger for an early election to be the Health Insurance Rebate. Can you just imagine the irony!!!?? The Coalition have been "pounding" (with what appears to be a budgie's feather) the Government about spending, spending, spending and not being financial responsible. And then the Coalition turn down the opportunity to save $$$ by not backing Labors position.

I cannot understand how the Coalition cannot be making ground on Rudd over the position of Climate Change alone!!!

Duckman

It is brilliant.

Julia · 16 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Duckman#72 said:
I cannot understand how the Coalition cannot be making ground on Rudd over the position of Climate Change alone!!!

Well, Duckman, the Coalition aren't making any ground because they are hopelessly divided about their stand on climate change. The Nationals absolutely oppose the ETS in any form, and think the Coalition should simply vote against it.

Turnbull, on the other hand, plus some of his more politically savvy colleagues, recognise that to do this would almost certainly trigger a double dissolution which the government would obviously win.

That would be the death of Turnbull.

So presumably he figures he is better to negotiate the ETS with the government, and hopefully allow time to work for him as the electorate gradually realises the extra taxes and charges (a) involved in the ETS, and (b) imposed in an attempt to get the budget back into surplus after the mighty splurge.

There's no doubt that the government, despite the amazing level of stuff ups in the schools programme etc, are united, obsessively 'on message', and way more politically competent than the Opposition (sadly).

Bobby · 17 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Julia said:
Well, Duckman, the Coalition aren't making any ground because they are hopelessly divided about their stand on climate change. The Nationals absolutely oppose the ETS in any form, and think the Coalition should simply vote against it.

Turnbull, on the other hand, plus some of his more politically savvy colleagues, recognise that to do this would almost certainly trigger a double dissolution which the government would obviously win.

That would be the death of Turnbull.

So presumably he figures he is better to negotiate the ETS with the government, and hopefully allow time to work for him as the electorate gradually realises the extra taxes and charges (a) involved in the ETS, and (b) imposed in an attempt to get the budget back into surplus after the mighty splurge.

Impressed with your handle on most of it

Duckman#72 · 17 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Julia said:
Well, Duckman, the Coalition aren't making any ground because they are hopelessly divided about their stand on climate change. The Nationals absolutely oppose the ETS in any form, and think the Coalition should simply vote against it.

Turnbull, on the other hand, plus some of his more politically savvy colleagues, recognise that to do this would almost certainly trigger a double dissolution which the government would obviously win.

That would be the death of Turnbull.

So presumably he figures he is better to negotiate the ETS with the government, and hopefully allow time to work for him as the electorate gradually realises the extra taxes and charges (a) involved in the ETS, and (b) imposed in an attempt to get the budget back into surplus after the mighty splurge.

There's no doubt that the government, despite the amazing level of stuff ups in the schools programme etc, are united, obsessively 'on message', and way more politically competent than the Opposition (sadly).

Hi Julia

I see things slightly differently. I think that Labor loves having the Coalition "all over the place" on Climate Change. But I don't think that Labor want to trigger a double dissolution on the back of Climate Change, on the basis that IF the Coalition ever get their act together they might be a voice that resonates with the public.

Things have changed with the publics mood towards climate change but not to the extent that we have become a "Green Voting Nation".

I hate the idea of Turnbull nuzzling up to Rudd over climate change. Firstly, as it plays into Labors hands, secondly I think it is bad policy and thirdly it shows very little differentiation between the parties. No good being like Rudd!! If you have the same policy as Rudd and he has approval rating of 70%and yours is 25% - you ain't moving into the lodge!!! There are any number of reasons I wouldn't give Labor the opportunity for an early election but Climate Change wouldn't be one of them. That's why I think Labor are going headfirst into Health Insurance.

I agree with some of the earlier comments about getting some good advisers and spin doctors in. I thought Brendan Nelson made a point yesterday when he likened the Labor stance to climate change to effectively increasing the GST to 12.5%. You start a campaign up like that and it will be amazing how much people might review their position. But, they need to improve their performances.

If the Coalition played it smart it would agree to any policy changes for the Health Insurance Rebate and any other minor policies and stay right away from Climate Change and ETS. Make it known that Labor have called an early election on THAT alone. My bet is that Rudd won't have the balls to do it. Not many political parties have won going into an election on a platform of increased taxes (which is what he is doing), let alone calling an early election to do it!!

Duckman

Julia · 17 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Duckman#72 said:
I see things slightly differently. I think that Labor loves having the Coalition "all over the place" on Climate Change. But I don't think that Labor want to trigger a double dissolution on the back of Climate Change, on the basis that IF the Coalition ever get their act together they might be a voice that resonates with the public.

You could well be right.

Things have changed with the publics mood towards climate change but not to the extent that we have become a "Green Voting Nation".

I'd have thought public sentiment was moving in the other direction, i.e. more people are now against an ETS, at least prior to Copenhagen, than was the case a year or so ago.

I hate the idea of Turnbull nuzzling up to Rudd over climate change.

Me too!

Firstly, as it plays into Labors hands, secondly I think it is bad policy and thirdly it shows very little differentiation between the parties. No good being like Rudd!! If you have the same policy as Rudd and he has approval rating of 70%and yours is 25% - you ain't moving into the lodge!!! There are any number of reasons I wouldn't give Labor the opportunity for an early election but Climate Change wouldn't be one of them. That's why I think Labor are going headfirst into Health Insurance.

OK, we'll have to agree to differ on this. I don't think the voting public would cop an election on such a small measure as the health insurance change which is only going to affect a very small proportion of the electorate, but they (reluctantly) would on climate change because (a) there is much more passion about this, and (b) an ETS would affect every single person in Australia.

I agree with some of the earlier comments about getting some good advisers and spin doctors in. I thought Brendan Nelson made a point yesterday when he likened the Labor stance to climate change to effectively increasing the GST to 12.5%. You start a campaign up like that and it will be amazing how much people might review their position. But, they need to improve their performances.

Yep, they need a tactic like that. So far they are just floundering and waffling.

If the Coalition played it smart it would agree to any policy changes for the Health Insurance Rebate and any other minor policies

Completely agree on this. Not just from the political point of view, but also because to hold out on the health insurance change makes it look too much to the lower demographic in the electorate that the Libs are protecting the wealthy.

and stay right away from Climate Change and ETS. Make it known that Labor have called an early election on THAT alone. My bet is that Rudd won't have the balls to do it. Not many political parties have won going into an election on a platform of increased taxes (which is what he is doing), let alone calling an early election to do it!!

Good point. I don't think we'll find out, though, because Turnbull is clearly determined to co-operate on the ETS.

Cheers
Julia

LonelyTrader · 17 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Definitely not!!! Most of the promises that got him over the line have now been "put on hold". I have no faith in him at all! I didn't vote for him either but my preferences went to him - there was no one to vote for - once again!!! Why can't we have a leader that will stand up and do what's right for once. Instead of hiding behind their dodgy excuses and trying to sell us crap no one believes!!!

Duckman#72 · 17 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Julia said:
OK, we'll have to agree to differ on this. I don't think the voting public would cop an election on such a small measure as the health insurance change which is only going to affect a very small proportion of the electorate, but they (reluctantly) would on climate change because (a) there is much more passion about this, and (b) an ETS would affect every single person in Australia.

I see your point Julia. From an election campaign strategy the Coalition wouldn't have a leg to stand on with regards to Health Insurance.

The big problem in "playing who blinks first" with Rudd is that he would love to go to an early election before next years budget. The full force of the "stimulus package" is yet to be felt. The full force will be felt when the Government wants its money back (starting with Budget 2010) . While he might get knocked around in an early election everything is in his favour.

* He is so strong in the polls, and
* Has such a majority
* The Economy is appearing robust
* AND.......the Coalition is, well..........the Coalition

He might just take the risk anyway. I just can't see any sense for the Coalition taking the "high ground" on an election based on Health Insurance.

trainspotter · 17 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Australian Gothic is a painting by Grant Wood from 1930. Its inspiration came from a cottage designed in the Gothic Revival style with a distinctive upper window and a decision to paint the house along with "the kind of people I fancied should live in that house." The painting shows a PIEFACED egalitarian standing beside a woman whose identity remains ambiguous; she may either be his spinster daughter, as explained by the artist's sister, or the farmer's barren political animal wife. The figures were modeled by the artist's dentist and sister. The woman is dressed in a colonial print apron mimicking 19th century Australiana and the couple are in the traditional roles of men and women, the man's pitchfork symbolizing hard labor (UNION POWER), and the kangaroo over the woman's right shoulder suggesting her true ocker image.

Aussiejeff · 17 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

trainspotter said:
Australian Gothic is a painting by Grant Wood from 1930. Its inspiration came from a cottage designed in the Gothic Revival style with a distinctive upper window and a decision to paint the house along with "the kind of people I fancied should live in that house." The painting shows a PIEFACED egalitarian standing beside a woman whose identity remains ambiguous; she may either be his spinster daughter, as explained by the artist's sister, or the farmer's barren political animal wife. The figures were modeled by the artist's dentist and sister. The woman is dressed in a colonial print apron mimicking 19th century Australiana and the couple are in the traditional roles of men and women, the man's pitchfork symbolizing hard labor (UNION POWER), and the kangaroo over the woman's right shoulder suggesting her true ocker image.

Oh...

For a minute there I thought I was looking at the King & Queen of Orstralia!

Rule Ruddania!!

Julia · 17 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Duckman#72 said:
The big problem in "playing who blinks first" with Rudd is that he would love to go to an early election before next years budget. The full force of the "stimulus package" is yet to be felt. The full force will be felt when the Government wants its money back (starting with Budget 2010) . While he might get knocked around in an early election everything is in his favour.

Exactly and both he and Turnbull know this.

He might just take the risk anyway. I just can't see any sense for the Coalition taking the "high ground" on an election based on Health Insurance.

I think Mr Turnbull will roll over on pretty much any issue at all because he can't afford an early election before the voters have understood what they are in for with the next Budget. The government know this absolutely, and so they have Turnbull on toast.

Mr J · 17 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Maybe I'd make for a poor politician, but couldn't an open, crafty politician spin the truths in his or her favour, assuming the meda were to give him or her fair coverage?

Duckman#72 · 17 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Mr J said:
assuming the meda were to give him or her fair coverage?

That is the sting in the tail of your comment.

Technically, that is correct. I've been involved at a minor level at state politics and was constantly amazed at how a 20min interview was cut to 40secs for the news. And it was always at the discretion of what the media assumed was "important". Good policy rarely makes for "important". Infighting, secrets, disarray, disunity, conflict, swearing,job cuts, inflation, the words "recession" and "depression", makes for "important" in the eyes of the media (at least at the Commercial channel level).

It is one of my pet hates that the media often becomes a "player" in the political game, rather than an observer/reporter.

I liken the media to a referee in a boxing match. A good one, will keep both opponents honest, make it a clean fight and go mostly unnoticed. Unfortunately the media stink as a neutral referee. Soon as they see blood on one of the opponents, they start punching the poor bastard themselves.

A good example is the position of the ETS. At a general level the media couldn't give a rat's about whether Labors position is a good one. All they care about is that Labor has one (and is united on it), whereas the Coalition don't (and aren't). Apparently it is more newsworthy to have an Opposition without policy, than a Government to have bad policy.

Duckman

Mr J · 17 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Well that's the catch isn't it - we know the media is biased. There must be a way to combat it though, even the US has Fox News . There has to be a weak link somewhere - radio, news, papers, etc. All it may take for a fire is a well-placed spark.

I can't help but think that Malcom is playing a loser's game. It seems he's waiting for the media to come around, and therefore not playing on his terms.

Knobby22 · 17 September 2009

Re: Does Rudd inspire confidence?

Mr J said:
Well that's the catch isn't it - we know the media is biased. There must be a way to combat it though, even the US has Fox News . There has to be a weak link somewhere - radio, news, papers, etc. All it may take for a fire is a well-placed spark.

I can't help but think that Malcom is playing a loser's game. It seems he's waiting for the media to come around, and therefore not playing on his terms.

Oh for the lack of bias of Fox news!

(chortle)

Garpal Gumnut · 17 September 2009

Rudd Best PM Since Howard

Rudd has been very impressive in his choice of office bearers and ambassadors.

A bipartisan approach gives him much kudos.

He really is doing a good job in saving Australia from recession.

He might even get my and Dharma's vote in the next election.

gg

nunthewiser · 17 September 2009

Re: Rudd Best PM Since Howard

hahahahahahah

Excellent thread title!!

your a star GG

Garpal Gumnut · 17 September 2009

Re: Rudd Best PM Since Howard

Yes nun, he is the best we've got.

Although I have criticised him as a godbotherer,my new lady is a Buddhist and is taking me through a spiritual experience that is both sentient and existential, as you would understand.

I have severely misjudged Mr. Rudd. Dharma although a Green, has a soft spot for him.

gg

trainspotter · 17 September 2009

Re: Rudd Best PM Since Howard

True, he is the master of the current political landscape we have in Banana Republic Land. Skilfull at deflecting any criticisms and expert at wooing the mass media, he is the modern version of Mandrake the Magician. Thus far he has managed to spend, spend, spend his way into our hearts and minds.

It’s becoming increasingly obvious that the Rudd government finds it much easier to spend money than to create value.

For instance, an official report into the strategic housing programme for Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory showed that $45 million of federal taxpayers’ money had already been spent but not a single extra house had actually been built. The money, it seems, had gone on consultants’ reports and territory government charges. One minister, Alison Anderson, has already resigned from the Territory’s Labor government over this issue, claiming that a consultancy culture and an obsession with spin meant that no improvements were being made to the lives of Aboriginal people.

CLASSIC RUDD !! There is no real alternative as the opposition is in complete disarray and could not organise a drinking session in an establishment that brews beer.

noirua · 17 September 2009

Re: Rudd Best PM Since Howard

Kevin Rudd is indeed the Prime Minister of the moment, even though for some he may not be the crunchiest biscuit in the tin.

Kevin Rudd

trainspotter

Duckman#72

Julia

In Memoriam

Bobby

Duckman#72

Julia

In Memoriam

LonelyTrader

Duckman#72

trainspotter

Attachments

Aussiejeff

Julia

In Memoriam

Mr J

Duckman#72

Mr J

Knobby22

Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

Garpal Gumnut

Ross Island Hotel

nunthewiser

Garpal Gumnut

Ross Island Hotel

trainspotter

noirua

Similar threads

Kevin Rudd

In Memoriam

In Memoriam

Attachments

In Memoriam

Mmmmmm 2nd breakfast

Ross Island Hotel

Ross Island Hotel

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency