Join the Search for Flight MH370

[bellenuit]

This is getting murky !!!!!!!



http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579434653903086282

Press Conference currently under way has denied that transmission of engine data continued for 4 hours after plane lost from radar.

 

[rumpole]

Press Conference currently under way has denied that transmission of engine data continued for 4 hours after plane lost from radar.

Does one get a sense of general disorganisation and lack of a command chain in Malaysia ?

Or maybe a cover up ?

 

[sptrawler]

The obvious problem that stands out at this point, Malaysia obviously doesn't want anyone looking at their radar tracking ability.

 

[rumpole]

The obvious problem that stands out at this point, Malaysia obviously doesn't want anyone looking at their radar tracking ability.

Nothing to see here, move along

 

[Smurf1976]

Does one get a sense of general disorganisation and lack of a command chain in Malaysia ?

Or maybe a cover up ?

I am not familiar with the area personally, having never been anywhere near it. But based on the various reports it seems that there are a lot of freight ships around, there are oil rigs with people working on them, there are fishing boats, at least a few pleasure boats etc, aircraft flying overhead and so on. And yet nobody has found anything in the water, and only one oil worker claims to have seen what he thinks *might* have been a plane on fire (or it could have just been something else?). Then there's the air and sea based search efforts with multiple countries involved. Meanwhile the US says they can detect explosions etc but that there hasn't been one so far as they can tell.

All that leads me to see the whole thing as rather odd.

Could it have simply plunged (as an intact, complete plane) into the ocean at full speed with the nose pointing straight down and completely disintegrated on impact?

If the plane still had the engines running flat out and was pointing straight down (due to whatever cause) then what happens when it hits the water? I'd assume that it would simply disintegrate into a million pieces and that few if any parts would survive intact (and those that did survive may well sink), thus leaving nothing that's easy to find.

I don't know how plausible that is. But I do know that if you accidentally lose something over the side of a roughly 50 metre high structure and it falls under gravity onto the concrete at the bottom well then there isn't much left of the object afterward, it basically "blows up" on impact - what was solid is now lots of little bits. Been there, accidentally done that one many years ago (reportable workplace incident by the way). So I'm assuming that if you have an aircraft not just fall, but be actively propelled down by the engines at full speed, then nothing much would survive the impact once it hits the water. And the plunge from 35,000 feet would only take half a minute or so, an incredibly rapid descent, therefore may not be detected by anything or any alarms etc sent out in that time.

It sounds a bit extreme, but all the "conventional" crash (or successful landing somewhere) scenarios seem to be ruled out - not tracked on radar, no explosion, no mayday calls, can't find anything etc.

 

[banco]

The obvious problem that stands out at this point, Malaysia obviously doesn't want anyone looking at their radar tracking ability.

I've no doubt that faced with choice of not finding the plane or revealing their radar specs etc. to China Malaysia would choose the former option in a heartbeat.

 

[sptrawler]

I am not familiar with the area personally, having never been anywhere near it. But based on the various reports it seems that there are a lot of freight ships around, there are oil rigs with people working on them, there are fishing boats, at least a few pleasure boats etc, aircraft flying overhead and so on. And yet nobody has found anything in the water, and only one oil worker claims to have seen what he thinks *might* have been a plane on fire (or it could have just been something else?). Then there's the air and sea based search efforts with multiple countries involved. Meanwhile the US says they can detect explosions etc but that there hasn't been one so far as they can tell.

All that leads me to see the whole thing as rather odd.

Could it have simply plunged (as an intact, complete plane) into the ocean at full speed with the nose pointing straight down and completely disintegrated on impact?

If the plane still had the engines running flat out and was pointing straight down (due to whatever cause) then what happens when it hits the water? I'd assume that it would simply disintegrate into a million pieces and that few if any parts would survive intact (and those that did survive may well sink), thus leaving nothing that's easy to find.

I don't know how plausible that is. But I do know that if you accidentally lose something over the side of a roughly 50 metre high structure and it falls under gravity onto the concrete at the bottom well then there isn't much left of the object afterward, it basically "blows up" on impact - what was solid is now lots of little bits. Been there, accidentally done that one many years ago (reportable workplace incident by the way). So I'm assuming that if you have an aircraft not just fall, but be actively propelled down by the engines at full speed, then nothing much would survive the impact once it hits the water. And the plunge from 35,000 feet would only take half a minute or so, an incredibly rapid descent, therefore may not be detected by anything or any alarms etc sent out in that time.

It sounds a bit extreme, but all the "conventional" crash (or successful landing somewhere) scenarios seem to be ruled out - not tracked on radar, no explosion, no mayday calls, can't find anything etc.

One would have thought there would be a transmission, "Mayday, Mayday, we are in the $hit".

Even in a power station, one informs system control when there is an imminent loss of a unit.

I'm sure at the first indication of serious damage, a pilot would report the situation.

There was no distress call, apparently.

 

[Julia]

Few commentators seem to be prepared to put forward the possibility of a hijacking.
Couldn't either a crew member or a passenger have demanded the aircraft change course, disabling the communications (I have no idea whether all communications can in fact be so disabled so as to leave no trace of the whereabouts of the aircraft), and then fly it to some disused, or especially prepared airstrip, where the passengers could either be held as hostages or executed, and the plane left for use at a later date in a capacity such as those flown into the World Trade Centre?

It sounds fanciful indeed. But given the lack of any clues whatsoever, isn't it at least somewhat feasible?

 

[sptrawler]

Few commentators seem to be prepared to put forward the possibility of a hijacking.
Couldn't either a crew member or a passenger have demanded the aircraft change course, disabling the communications (I have no idea whether all communications can in fact be so disabled so as to leave no trace of the whereabouts of the aircraft), and then fly it to some disused, or especially prepared airstrip, where the passengers could either be held as hostages or executed, and the plane left for use at a later date in a capacity such as those flown into the World Trade Centre?

It sounds fanciful indeed. But given the lack of any clues whatsoever, isn't it at least somewhat feasible?

The cockpit is locked, to force entry would give one of the crew time to put out a distress call.

Of course there may have been an opportunity to overpower the cabin crew, however a distress call doesn't take long and the crew are well versed on transmitting it.
The only people who could dissable it would be a pilot or co pilot, I would assume.
If they had flown to a remote location, one would assume, they would be making demands already.

 

[drsmith]

Forget yesterday's theory,

Washington: Communications satellites picked up faint electronic pulses from Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 after it went missing on Saturday, but the signals gave no information about where the stray jet was heading and little else about its fate, two sources close to the investigation said on Thursday.

The "pings" indicated that the aircraft's maintenance troubleshooting systems were switched on and ready to communicate with satellites as needed. But no data links were opened because the companies involved had not subscribed to that level of service from the satellite operator, the sources said.

The system transmits such pings about once an hour, the sources said, but it remains unclear how many signals the plane sent after air traffic control lost track of it.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/malaysi...ngs-from-jet-sources-says-20140314-hviig.html

ABC news also advised that Malaysia has advised that the items photographed by Chinese satellite are not the aircraft.

A difficulty with the slow decompression theory is that it requires multiple levels of equipment and/or human failure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

 

[sptrawler]

It certainly doesn't overwelm you with confidence, if you were unfortunate enough to have a mid air incident in Malaysian air space.

 

[McLovin]

Few commentators seem to be prepared to put forward the possibility of a hijacking.
Couldn't either a crew member or a passenger have demanded the aircraft change course, disabling the communications (I have no idea whether all communications can in fact be so disabled so as to leave no trace of the whereabouts of the aircraft), and then fly it to some disused, or especially prepared airstrip, where the passengers could either be held as hostages or executed, and the plane left for use at a later date in a capacity such as those flown into the World Trade Centre?

It sounds fanciful indeed. But given the lack of any clues whatsoever, isn't it at least somewhat feasible?

You can turn off the transponder (the transponder tells the ground radar what flight number it is and also it's altitude), but a 777 is not a stealth aircraft so it would still appear, albeit as unidentified, on radar.

That was why I was a bit surprised initially that it had turned around and flown back over Malaysia. Surely the Malaysian military would want to know what the unidentified aircraft flying straight over it was.

The idea of flying it to a remote landing strip is incredibly unlikely, basically only in Hollywood. These are big jets that require lots of space to land and then need lots of Jet A-1 fuel and even more runway to get off the ground again. Neither of those things are easy to procure.

The Malaysians are doing a pretty poor job with this, IMO, but so is the 24 hour news cycle, that seems to be trying to find a new cause on the hour, every hour.

 

[rumpole]

The legal eagles have their claws out already

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-14/malaysia-airlines-face-compensation-claims/5321610

 

[noco]

It has been alleged that the plane flew on for another 4 or 5 hours....so who knows it could be sitting in a North Korean hanger being spray painted.

If that should happen to be the case, God help the passengers on board....they would obviously become political prisoners for the rest of their lives.

 

[rumpole]

It has been alleged that the plane flew on for another 4 or 5 hours....so who knows it could be sitting in a North Korean hanger being spray painted.

If that should happen to be the case, God help the passengers on board....they would obviously become political prisoners for the rest of their lives.

Yes, damn those commie B*stards.


OTOH , if the autopilot was on, and the pilots incapacitated or dead due due decompression bought about by a window or door blowing out, the plane could have kept flying to the limits of its fuel and crashed in a jungle somewhere. Funny radar somewhere didn't pick it up though.

 

[drsmith]

OTOH , if the autopilot was on, and the pilots incapacitated or dead due due decompression bought about by a window or door blowing out, the plane could have kept flying to the limits of its fuel and crashed in a jungle somewhere. Funny radar somewhere didn't pick it up though.

You're not the only one to consider rapid decompression while the plane continuing flight,

http://pickeringpost.com/story/mystery-flight-may-never-be-found/2936

 

[sptrawler]

You're not the only one to consider rapid decompression while the plane continuing flight,

http://pickeringpost.com/story/mystery-flight-may-never-be-found/2936

It is the most obvious conclusion at this time.

The reports of the plane continuing to fly, when comunications were lost,leans toward that conclusion.IMO

 

[Bintang]

It is the most obvious conclusion at this time.

The reports of the plane continuing to fly, when comunications were lost,leans toward that conclusion.IMO

Not if the path plotted in this map is correct:
http://airinfo.org/2014/03/14/disparition-du-vol-mh370-la-zone-de-recherche-etendue-a-locean-indien/

 

[drsmith]

The articles are getting bigger but a definitive answer is still elusive,

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ma...s-military-radar/story-e6freuy9-1226854346724

 

[Julia]

From the above link:

A third source familiar with the investigation told Reuters inquiries were focusing increasingly on the theory that someone who knew how to fly a plane deliberately diverted the flight, with 239 people on board, hundreds of kilometres off its intended course from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.

“What we can say is we are looking at sabotage, with hijack still on the cards,” said that source, a senior Malaysian police official.

Plus indications - now from London - that signals showing the plane was still in the air up to five hours after last contact. So maybe not entirely fanciful to consider hijack after all.