Israel - Palestine

The Silence of the Left.

To his credit, Barack Obama has now intervened to help the hapless Iraqis besieged on the mountain, with food drops and air strikes. But where, through all the horrors of Syria, Iraq and Boko Haram’s murderous rampage in Nigeria in the name of Islam, has there been anything like the outrage that has been seen around the world over Israel’s action against Hamas in Gaza? The vituperation of those like the former Fairfax Media columnist Mike Carlton has, as always, been directed at the perceived iniquities of Israel, never those of Hamas or the egregious acts of inhumanity being committed across the Arab world. In Pakistan, a leading Islamic state, an army offensive against terrorists in its tribal districts began in mid-June. More than 1500 civilians have been killed, many of them women and children. Yet there is no international uproar.

Demonstrators regularly take to our streets to protest against Israel’s actions in Gaza, yet fall silent on atrocities committed in Iraq, even when our own citizens take part. The threat posed by the 150 homegrown jihadists fighting in Iraq and Syria, like Khaled Sharrouf and Mohamed Elomar, is appallingly real. But it is Jewish schoolchildren who are disgracefully targeted for racial vilification and Nazi-style abuse on a bus in Sydney.

Click to expand...

(my bolds)

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...risy-over-israel/story-e6frg71x-1227018484598

And the Israelis are the bad boys once again.

Perhaps the Israelis should be bombing the source of supply of these rockets where ever that may be.


http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...rotests-continue/story-fnihsmjt-1227018864728

Why is there so much emphasis placed on the hatred of the Jews who are in reality defending themselves from Hamas rocket attacks?

Why isn't there more discussion going on with killings and beheading of Muslims by Muslims in Syria, Liberia, Iraq and Pakistan?

Why are we starting to see Muslim demonstrations in Australia?

Muslims are being encouraged by their Mufti to burn Jewish business, destroy their cars and their homes and kill every Jew in Australia until the last one and we have the likes of Sarah Hanson-Young and Lean Rhianna, who I might add are Fabians (communists), addressing these protests.....These two are encouraging the Muslim uprising here in Australia to create hatred with intent to divide our community....Why aren't the so called moderate Muslims protesting against their radical brotherhood's behavior?

Why are these people hell bent on World domination and creating so much torture and misery?

Ask yourself , do we really need this kind of behavior here in Australia?


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...he-western-world/story-fni0ffxg-1227007637712

Listen to these kids showing hatred for infidels....They are brain washed....they will become very dangerous once they become teenagers

This is what is being taught in Muslim schools in Australia 5 times per day.

Do we really want this happening in Australia?......No we don't but it will and something must be done now before it is too late

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...lds-severed-head/story-fnii5s41-1227019897582

noco said:

This is what is being taught in Muslim schools in Australia 5 times per day.

Do we really want this happening in Australia?......No we don't but it will and something must be done now before it is too late

Click to expand...

How do you know what is being taught in Muslim schools ? Have you ever been in one ?

And what is the "something" that you suggest should be done ?

Ban Muslim schools ?

Give some actual suggestions instead of emotive statements and propaganda.

SirRumpole said:

How do you know what is being taught in Muslim schools ? Have you ever been in one ?

And what is the "something" that you suggest should be done ?

Ban Muslim schools ?

Give some actual suggestions instead of emotive statements and propaganda.

Click to expand...

In his post noco says:

Why isn't there more discussion going on with killings and beheading of Muslims by Muslims in Syria, Liberia, Iraq and Pakistan?

Click to expand...

It's a very fair point to raise imo. I've also raised it before and, as I recall, your response was that that was just 'crazies killing crazies'. So muslims killing muslims is OK? Muslims are also beheading Christians in Iraq.

Separately, Calliope has posted the sickening photo of a 7 year old son of an Australian born Muslim holding up a severed head . He's so small he has to use two hands to hold the head. His father looks on with pride, saying apparently "that's my boy".

If we have nurtured something like this right here in Australia, I don't think it's just being emotive to be concerned.

Julia said:

In his post noco says:

It's a very fair point to raise imo. I've also raised it before and, as I recall, your response was that that was just 'crazies killing crazies'. So muslims killing muslims is OK? Muslims are also beheading Christians in Iraq.

Separately, Calliope has posted the sickening photo of a 7 year old son of an Australian born Muslim holding up a severed head . He's so small he has to use two hands to hold the head. His father looks on with pride, saying apparently "that's my boy".

If we have nurtured something like this right here in Australia, I don't think it's just being emotive to be concerned.

Click to expand...

Anyone killing anyone else for religious reasons is unacceptable, but as you once said Julia, joining the "isn't that awful" club doesn't really achieve anything. The lunatics in Syria and Iraq won't listen to us, so there isn't much point trying to point out their evil ways to them.

And as I recall from my original comment on "crazies vs crazies" I said that was how the media perceived the issue, which is why they didn't cover Syria as much as Gaza.

Everyone should be concerned about Islamic and other violence, but I was asking noco and others for realistic suggestions of what we can do about the problem, if one exists in this country.

So to get the ball rolling I'll put up a few and see what people think

* Require independent observers in Muslim schools to ensure extremist doctrines are not being taught, or defund these schools entirely

* Same in all Mosques

* Cut out immigration from countries where extremist religions are practised, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt...

* Declare all those who support jihad "enemies of the State" and build a gaol in the desert somewhere and send all EOTS there

Do people think these actions would be effective ? Would they be Constitutional ? Would they provoke civil unrest rather than prevent it ?

What other measures do people think should be taken ?

noco said:

Macquack. are you a Muslim or do you have middle east origin?...if you don't want to tell me, that is fine....I am just curious.

You seem to be so bigoted and a hater of the Jews......You seem to believe Hamas are not a terrorist organization and can do no wrong.....Hamas have already stated, they want to destroy Israel come hell or high water......It looks like they have selected hell for the Gaza people with all disregard for the their safety.......They do not care how many Gaza people get killed so long as they get world publicity and sympathy and they have been very successful at it until now.

Click to expand...

Sorry Noco for not getting back to you earlier, but I have been busy in training with the Jihadists on the Northern Beaches of Sydney. Actually in Tony Abbotts seat, but the usually super-volunteer won't have a bar of us?

Getting very lonely with very few new members.

But, I do have an undertaking from Tony, that there will be no 'eruv' going up around our suburb.

What is 'eruv'?

Julia said:

What is 'eruv'?

Click to expand...

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/residents-draw-line-over-jewish-boundary-20100702-zu5p.html

Jewish residents of St Ives have long tried to create an eruv around the suburb: a zone marked by overhead wire within which orthodox Jews are permitted to carry objects out of doors on their sabbath and holy days, which would otherwise be forbidden.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/residents-draw-line-over-jewish-boundary-20100702-zu5p.html#ixzz3AD9QILZg

Click to expand...

This religious thing is getting more bizarre by the day.

Why should 'normal' people have to be put out by these archaic beliefs ? Unfortunately it just shows how enslaved some people are by their religion.

Maybe it's time politicians stood up against these inane rituals, but of course they want the Jewish/Christian/Muslim votes don't they ?

SirRumpole said:

This religious thing is getting more bizarre by the day.

Why should 'normal' people have to be put out by these archaic beliefs ? Unfortunately it just shows how enslaved some people are by their religion.

Maybe it's time politicians stood up against these inane rituals, but of course they want the Jewish/Christian/Muslim votes don't they ?

Click to expand...

Similar to how all meat that can be purchased at Woolworths, Coles, IGA and even McDonald's, Hungry Jacks, KFC (etc etc etc) is Halal for ~2% of the population, but the other 98% (or those who eat meat) have to abid by it.

DB008 said:

Similar to how all meat that can be purchased at Woolworths, Coles, IGA and even McDonald's, Hungry Jacks, KFC (etc etc etc) is Halal for ~2% of the population, but the other 98% (or those who eat meat) have to abid by it.

Click to expand...

Do all the listed outlets you mentioned comply with 'kosher' requirements? I have never noticed that being advertised.

Macquack said:

Do all the listed outlets you mentioned comply with 'kosher' requirements? I have never noticed that being advertised.

Click to expand...

I haven't look (at fast food restaurants for Kosher accreditation) to be honest.

I have seen a few 'this is Kosher' labels (normal shopping), but it is nowhere near as widespread as halal.

DB008 said:

I haven't look (at fast food restaurants for Kosher accreditation) to be honest.

I have seen a few 'this is Kosher' labels (normal shopping), but it is nowhere near as widespread as halal.

Click to expand...

But does it pass the taste test?

burglar said:

But does it pass the taste test?

Click to expand...

Of course. No problems.

But that isn't the issue I was raising.

burglar said:

But does it pass the taste test?

Click to expand...

The issue for many of us is more the way in which the animal is killed.

DB008 said:

I haven't look (at fast food restaurants for Kosher accreditation) to be honest.

I have seen a few 'this is Kosher' labels (normal shopping), but it is nowhere near as widespread as halal.

Click to expand...

AFAIK, Kosher cannot allow any stunning but Halal allows the animal to be stunned unconscious. This difference accounts for a lot of the price difference in Kosher meat over regular meat. Halal seems to be pretty much the same as how animals are processed anyway, I've never really understood the big deal.

Kosher Coca-Cola is the only thing to drink in America, it's made with real sugar not HFCS.

noco said:

Why is there so much emphasis placed on the hatred of the Jews who are in reality defending themselves from Hamas rocket attacks?

Why isn't there more discussion going on with killings and beheading of Muslims by Muslims in Syria, Liberia, Iraq and Pakistan?

Why are we starting to see Muslim demonstrations in Australia?

Muslims are being encouraged by their Mufti to burn Jewish business, destroy their cars and their homes and kill every Jew in Australia until the last one and we have the likes of Sarah Hanson-Young and Lean Rhianna, who I might add are Fabians (communists), addressing these protests.....These two are encouraging the Muslim uprising here in Australia to create hatred with intent to divide our community....Why aren't the so called moderate Muslims protesting against their radical brotherhood's behavior?

Why are these people hell bent on World domination and creating so much torture and misery?

Ask yourself , do we really need this kind of behavior here in Australia?


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/op...he-western-world/story-fni0ffxg-1227007637712

Click to expand...

Noco,

Interview below might answer all your talking points. Well worth some of your time.
You know, if I am Jewish or love Israel, I'd be very upset once I know what's really going on.

Like seeing how an MIT professor who specialises in missiles and anti-ballistic weapons saying that the Iron Dome system is an expensive but worthless propaganda machine. You know, it doesn't shoot down any rockets, costs hundreds of millions, and scare the daylights out of Israeli citizens who think it's used to protect them from real missiles.

There's going to be a lot of heartache once the truth is known. Like believing your lover's stories and excuses to then later find out it's all bs... So it's understandable you're not brave enough to see another point of view - ones from recognised scholars like Chomsky, Finkelstein, Illan Pappe etc.

----

The kind of things you've been saying, it's good for bigots or uninformed and lazy people... you know, all Muslims are terrorists, Muslims harm Australia and other democracies... I've watched enough security and intelligence experts to know that they know what is the real danger to their country - it's Israel, not the terrorists.

Example 1: A recent national security assessment report in the US show that Israel is high on the CIA [?] and US intelligence's concerns to US national security. Among the concerns are undue influence by a foreign power (Israel) upon US's politicians, leadership and mass influence through mainstream media. Then there's all that spying by Israel on US leadership, industries...

Example 2: Michael Scheuer [?] - former head of CIA's bin Laden unit - have written books and gone in front of US Congress saying that Israel is no longer an asset but has been a liability, to US national security. That if it's up to him, he'd dump Israel tomorrow.

Among his, and others', reasoning is the continual bashing of Palestinians every few years. It's a major recruiting tool for other terrorists organisations in the ME and around the world. The main concern Scheuer has is the potential danger these constant killing of Palestinian civilians, the Israeli lobby, the military industrial complex etc. influence and US leaderships always supporting Israel, the danger this have on an increasingly large domestic Arab population in the US.

That is, he's most concern about some misguided Arab American, seeing the kind of things being done and the kind of support being given by US leadership... that is a real danger at home, and abroad is quite obvious.

Example 3: The financial costs of supporting Israel is getting too much.
As Chomsky said, the old joke is that Israel blow things up, the Palestinians rebuild, the Europeans pay for it.
I mean, how much more arms could be sold to Israel to bomb Gaza?

Then there's the increased costs of security measures - at the airports, border patrol, lost of privacy on the people through wiretaps... Most of these measures are to protect against terrorism, not against another state.

It would be cheaper for US and Western national interests to be run through dictators and tyrants they've set up in the ME - more expensive to always have to stand in front of the world media to support Israel every couple of years for their indiscriminate killing of Arabs. Statecraft are better done behind puppets, not out loud in front of cameras.

Example 4: The Pivot to Asia.
There's Russia, there's a rising China - each one of whom could do serious, deadly, damage to Western power and influence.

Terrorists are a danger, no doubt... but in the grand scheme of things, they're like mosquitos, you don't want to be bitten by them, but your county will survive if attacked. So instead of spending billions each year, and countless hours of your intelligence assets on a relatively minor enemy, it's better to try to control and deal with two giants who have real nukes, have a real navy, army and air force and real intention for regional domination.

So by pivoting to Asia, US will want a relatively peaceful and calm Middle East - with good friends. That is much harder to do when you support some racist state who pick fights every year it seem.

It's only last year that Israel's PM went to the UN, bring that picture of a cartoon bomb he thought will frighten the world. Then soon after, assassinate 3 of Iran's nuclear scientists in Iran. Now if the Iranians didn't control themselves and strike back, the US and the West will be forced to join Israel's "self defense".

Do you think the US care that Israel is the only democracy in the ME? If it does, it wouldn't have overthrown the democratic Iranian gov't in the 50s and install the Shah, or prop up just about every kingdoms there is in the ME.

Example: No one like a welfare recipient

In the last 10 years, the US directly gave some $100 billion to Israel in foreign aids. There's more they gave in terms of tax deductions for Americans donating to certain projects in Israel etc...

Whether the US is in economic trouble or not, no one like to give money away... and give it to then be talked down to like how Netanyahu spoke to Obama.

No people like their media, their leadership being blackmailed or harassed into singing praises and allegiance to a foreign power.


Add all these up and wait... you mean Israel is doing all these because it want all the Palestinians' land and resources; how is it that the 4th largest military in the world is somehow facing an existential threat from an Arab population without enough water or food to live on?



The time they are a changing [Springteen?]

McLovin said:

AFAIK, Kosher cannot allow any stunning but Halal allows the animal to be stunned unconscious. This difference accounts for a lot of the price difference in Kosher meat over regular meat. Halal seems to be pretty much the same as how animals are processed anyway, I've never really understood the big deal.

Kosher Coca-Cola is the only thing to drink in America, it's made with real sugar not HFCS.

Click to expand...

I saw a documentary where an abattoir worker said the only difference between Halal and normal butchering is that the animal have to face towards Mecca before the deed. That's why he said all the meat there are Halal because non Muslims doesn't really care what direction the animal was killed.