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Islam: Is it inherently Evil?

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They say that history repeats itself.

All the bad things that Muslims have done in Western nations (9/11, London/Madrid/Boston/Bali bombings, Paris massacre, etc etc), will be their downfall.

Not saying that the West has clean hands, but they (Muslims) are digging their own graves.

Eventually, someone is going to say, 'Enough is enough'...
 
Actually I do other things with my life apart from trying to stop World War 3 from breaking out between Islamic terrorists just around the corner and cowering WASP's.

What did you all manage to miss about my post? The fact that there are a thousand, thousand nasty, crazy organizations who can come up with diatribes against Muslims, Jew, Christians, Warmists, Collingwod supporters whatever to justify termination with extreme prejudice? Or at least destroy their reputation with a view to dismissing anything they say as coming from devils and terrorists?

The fact that some of these people are now sophisticated and cunning enough to do it without actually frothing at the mouth and looking like total socipaths?

The extra special fact that secret service orgs now routinely enjoy the ease of setting up websites and creating whatever story they like with whatever evidence you can find or manufacture

I wasn't dismissing all that relentless barrage of links showing just how evil the entire Islamic religion was. I am just calling it for what it is. Unbalanced , selective, hateful and if believed and supported taking us to confrontations that can only be calamitous.

That was the main point.

____________________________________________________________________________

Many years ago I had big turning point in my acceptance of news reports carried by the media. I saw a 4 Corners program in the early 1980's which interviewed journalists who reported on African affairs.

It turns out the journalists were in fact CIA agents. One of their jobs was to create juicy stories that supported Americas political interests at the time. So a short story.

At that stage Angola was trying to gain independence. The US and South Africa were agan it. At that stage Cuba decided to send support to the Angolan freedom fighters/rebels/ whatever.

So what can we say that people will really remember and quote whenever they hear about Cuban troops in Angola? The reporter/CIA agent thought and thought and came up with the idea of a nun being captured and raped by the Cuban soldiers.

Excellent!! That really got some traction in the Press. Sex, rape, a Nun !.

Anyway the newspaper editors were very happy with story so the writer decided to continue his theme. His next story had the nun escaping her beastly captors and been rescued by the South African armed forces. Excellent. More good reviews.

For the finale our erstwhile propagandist decided that the nun and her rescuers were going to find the dastardly Cubans and get due revenge. And so it was written. They certainly made great stories.

None of this ever, ever happened. It was all constructed in the imagination of a journalist/CIA agent, fed to the international Press and duly swallowed by the public.

There were other similar stories but that stuck in my mind. It makes me very cautious about believing stuff just because it is in the newspapers.

____________________________________________________________________

Waterboarding is how we baptise terrorists in America. (So who exactly would say this ? )
 

But of course you are dismissing all of it because that is the only tactic you have left to employ apart from evading the questions put to you such as this from Bellenuit.


Here is another question for you. What are the moral values of Islam? Please explain with reference to the doctrinal sources which support them.

PS: I take it we are back to serious discussion. Therefore I will repost this video - the serious version.

 
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Bintang said:
....

Here is another question for you. What are the moral values of Islam? Please explain with reference to the doctrinal sources which support them.

...
Click to expand...

I googled quotes from Islamic holy texts and posted them before, but here's some more I scanned through that's short and catches my eyes.


Two Hundred Verses about Compassionate Living in the Quran

Read more: http://www.themuslimtimes.org/2013/...mpassionate-living-in-the-quran#ixzz3QNeffx48

1. It is not righteousness that you turn your faces to the East or the West, but truly righteous is he who believes in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Book and the Prophets, and spends his money for love of Him, on the kindred and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and those who ask for charity, and for ransoming the captives; and who observes Prayer and pays the Zakat; and those who fulfill their promise when they have made one, and the patient in poverty and afflictions and the steadfast in time of war; it is these who have proved truthful and it is these who are the God-fearing. (Al Quran 2:178)


2. Indeed, Allah enjoins justice, and the doing of good to others; and giving like kindred; and forbids indecency, and manifest evil, and wrongful transgression. He admonished you that you may take heed. (Al Quran 16:91)


3. And as for those who strive in Our path ”” We will surely guide them in Our ways. And Indeed, Allah is with those who are of service to others. (Al Quran 29:70)

4. Indeed, Allah is with those who are righteous and those who do good. (Al Quran 16:129)

5. The reward of goodness is nothing but goodness. (Al Quran 55:61)

143. And when he reached his age of full strength and attained maturity, We gave him wisdom and knowledge; and thus do We reward those who do good. (Al Quran 28:15)

144. A guidance and a mercy for those who do good. (Al Quran 31:4)

145. And he who submits himself completely to Allah, and is a doer of good, he has surely grasped a strong handle. And with Allah rests the end of all affairs. (Al Quran 31:23)

160. And remember the time when We took a covenant from the children of Israel: ‘You shall worship nothing but Allah and show kindness to parents and to kindred and orphans and the poor, and speak to men kindly and observe Prayer, and pay the Zakat;’ then you turned away in aversion, except a few of you. (Al Quran 2:84)

161. They ask thee what they shall spend. Say: ‘Whatever of good and abundant wealth you spend should be for parents and near relatives and orphans and the needy and the wayfarer. And whatever good you do, surely Allah knows it well.’ (Al Quran 2:216)

teachings about spouses:
170. Consort with them in kindness; and if you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing wherein Allah has placed much good. (Al Quran 4:20)


the orphans
171. And they ask thee concerning the orphans. Say: ‘Promotion of their welfare is an act of great goodness. And if you intermix with them, they are your brethren. And Allah knows the mischief-maker from the reformer. And if Allah had so willed, He would have put you to hardship. Surely, Allah is Mighty, Wise.’ (Al Quran 2:21)

172. And if you fear that you will not be fair in dealing with the orphans, then marry of women as may be agreeable to you, two, or three, or four; and if you fear you will not deal justly, then marry only one or what your right hands possess. That is the nearest way for you to avoid injustice. (Al Quran 4:4)

173. And when other relations and orphans and the poor are present at the division of heritage, give them something therefrom and speak to them words of kindness. (Al Quran 4:9)

175. So the orphan, oppress not. (Al Quran 93:10)
 

"Allah" means "God" in Arabic.

"Honest to Allah" is you mixing English with Arabic.

And yes, Allah and God refers to the same Being - that of the Abrahamic God, Lord, the Almighty...


That video is a joke. Just I know it's not intended to be satire.
 
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This site below discuss some common "beliefs" about Islam.

I read the page below and it seems reasonable.

The point about Islam and anti-Semitism is well made.



http://www.islamforpeace.org/quran.html

Point 1: Does the Quran instruct Muslims to kill Non-Muslims?
Significance of the definite article "Al" (i.e., "the")
A friend of mine once told me that the Quran instructs Muslims to kill all Infidels. I agreed with him that violent interpretations of the Quran exist and permeate many of our Islamic books. My friend then quoted the following 3 verses to prove his point.

Quran: {The infidels are your sworn enemies Sura 4:101}
Quran {Prophet, make war on the infidels Sura 66: 9}
Quran {Never be a helper to the disbelievers Sura 28:86}
I thanked my friend for making this point as well as indicating these verses, and then responded as follows:

Comments:
Clearly, the above verses can incite much animosity and subsequent violence vis-a-vis all non-Muslims. Accepted literally - and uncritically - these verses lend themselves to the unjust persecution of otherwise innocent people, whose only crime is being non-Muslim. However, a pivotal matter of linguistic importance is often overlooked: the significance and usage of the definite article, "al" (i.e., "the"), which precedes the various disparaging Arabic words - kafirun, mushrikun - that describe non-believers in the Quran and which are often translated as "non-believers," "infidels," "idolaters," or "polytheists." Furthermore, in Arabic, the definite article is physically attached to the word it describes.

See below:

Quran: {The infidels are your sworn enemies Sura 4:101}
Quran {Prophet, make war on the infidels Sura 66: 9
Quran {Never be a helper to the disbelievers Sura 28:86}
The exact Arabic expression in these verses - indeed, in every verse that talks of the non-believer - is "Al-Kaferrin" or "Al-la-dhina Kafaru." The use of "Al-" or "Al-la-dhina" limits the verse (and thus commandment) to 1) a specific time and place in historyand 2) a specific group of people who were obstacles to the establishment of Islam in its nascent phase. It is these two factors that caused these verses to be revealed. Had the intentions of the Quran been to extend the application of these verses in perpetuity, it would have used the expression "Man Kafar," rather than "Al-Kafereen" or "Al-La-dhina Kafaru". The former, "Man Kafar," literally means any one who does not believe in God; while the latter, "Al-Kafereen," - the infidels - denotes a specific group of people: they who fought Prophet Mohamed in the early stages of Islam.

Moreover, the overriding principle which must ultimately guide our understanding of these verses is the constant Quranic reminder that good Muslims do not initiate violence against others so long as the latter do not provoke hostilities.

Quran 2:190 Fight in the cause of God those who start fighting you, but do not transgress limits (or start the attack); for God loveth not transgressors.
 
the sad bit is that this video is 100% correct when considering the current IS and Salafist islam flavour.
 
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Quran 2:190 Fight in the cause of God those who start fighting you, but do not transgress limits (or start the attack); for God loveth not transgressors.
Click to expand...

That passage could be interpreted violently, it depends on the interpretation of "fighting".

The Charlie Hebdo assassins could have interpreted the magazine's insults as "starting a fight" and therefore subject to revenge.

That's why the Koran is dangerous, a few passages in isolation can lead to violence. Better to ditch the whole thing and start again for the modern world (or throw it away altogether).
 

We in the West don't exactly turn the other cheek when assaulted.

All religion should be abolished... but even then there still won't be peace on earth. Humans have been at war long before they discover God, and have been fighting long after they've separated God from their state's governance.
 
I previously posted information and a link from an open letter to ISIS. This was produced by Islamic leaders from Canada USA UK and many other countries.

It was a very confronting letter and pulled no punches in its condemnation of the atrocities committed by ISIS and in the name of Islam.

I originally posted the Executive Summary with the 24 main points the Islamic leaders wanted to highlight as unacceptable actions.

The remainder of the letter details the theological rationale behind their rejection of slavery, mass murder, torture ect as committed by ISIS. Obviously its too long to republish here . But as I suggested twice now its only a click away

I'll post the Executive Summary again. Anyone interested can read the full story and in particular the doctrinal discussion.


http://www.lettertobaghdadi.com/14/english-v14.pdf
 
basilio said:
I previously posted information and a link from an open letter to ISIS. This was produced by Islamic leaders from Canada USA UK and many other countries.
Click to expand...

This USA muslim leader had something different to say. How long before he is on a death list?

New York imam: “Let us admit…that we, the Muslims, are time bombs…The majority of us Muslims hate the Christians”

“Brooklyn Imam Tareq Yousef Al-Masri on Paris Terror Attacks: We Muslims Must Admit That We Are Time Bombs and We Hate Christians,” MEMRI, January 9, 2015:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/4748.htm


Imam Tareq Yousef Al-Masri spoke about the terror attacks in Paris, and said that Muslims are like time bombs. He further said that Muslims should admit that they hate Christians. Imam Al-Masri explained that Wahhabi ideology is responsible for instilling hatred in the hearts of Muslims, which leads to terrorism worldwide.

Following are excerpts from the sermon, which was posted on the Internet on January 9, 2015.

Let us admit, without lying to ourselves, that we, the Muslims, are time bombs.
We must admit this. We cannot become immune if we do not admit this. If you have cancer, it won’t help you if I tell you that you have the flu. I must tell you that you clearly have cancer. When someone has cancer, they run a series of tests, in order to identify the cause of this cancer. They don’t just say that this cancer is an act of God. Everything comes from Allah, but this should not prevent us from studying the underlying reasons for this cancer.
Let us admit something else. The majority of us Muslims hate the Christians – true or false? Yes, that is the truth.
[…]
Who instilled so much hatred in these generations? It is the ideology present in the books – the ideology of Ibn Taymiyyah, of Ibn Al-Qayyam, of Al-Nawawi. These are the pillars of this ideology. In modern times, we have Ibn Baz, Ibn Al-Uthaymeen, Al-Huweini, Muhammad Hassan… These people are responsible for instilling hatred in human beings.
[…]
Christians sometimes cite the Quranic verses used by these thugs, those [Salafi] scholars who have corrupted the nation of Muhammad, and who have buried our good reputation in the ground. I’ve just mentioned their names – from the past and from the present.
[…]
[These scholars consider] any Quranic verse of moral value to have been abrogated. They consider any verse that calls to treat people with kindness to have been abrogated. All that remains valid is: Kill! Slaughter! Is that the only thing that God tells us?!
[…]
They have made the Muslims hate everyone – the Christians, the Jews, the atheists, and all human beings. Why did God say: “We made peoples and tribes that you may know one another”? How can you get to know other people if you hate them?! How can you maintain a relationship with them? Oh you who believe that truth is on your side, show me what “merchandise” you are selling. It amounts to nothing but killing and accusing others of heresy and polytheism. It is all bad. What have you contributed to human civilization? Nothing! Then you try to claim that you are the best among people, and that you will go to Paradise while everybody else will go to the Hellfire.
I am ashamed of the rotten and despicable conduct of the Muslims. Today, the Muslims stand up in mosques and wash their hands of these two brothers – or of the two brothers from the Boston bombings – but is this enough? No. Oh servants of Allah, do not hate people! Love people. Get closer to them. Do you want to invite other people to join Islam, while you hate them and curse them day and night?!
 
Meanwhile the religion of Peace Strikes Again.
When there are few infidels left to kill they kill themselves instead:

Over 50 followers of the religion of peace have been peacefully blown to pieces by peaceful followers of the religion of peace in their mosque at Friday prayers, in the land of Islamic peace and harmony, Pakistan.
Please always remember that brotherly (and sisterly) love, kindness and world peace are the unique features of Islam. And whoever says otherwise is a hate-mongering, racist and islamophobic bigot.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/0...thern-pakistan-kills-6-during-midday-prayers/

ISLAMABAD – A bomb blast ripped through a Shiite mosque in southern Pakistan as worshippers gathered for Friday prayers, killing at least 56 people and wounding dozens more, in the deadliest act of anti-Shiite violence in two years.

The militant Sunni group Jundullah claimed responsibility for Friday's bombing in the city of Shikarpur in Sindh province, 310 miles north of the port city of Karachi.

Sunni extremists do not consider Shiites, who represent 10 percent to 20 percent of Pakistan's population, to be true Muslims. Sunni militants in Pakistan have bombed Shiite mosques, killed Shiite pilgrims traveling to neighboring Iran and assassinated Shiite religious figures and community leaders.
 

I can't believe that your are that naive. Why is that document only calling out ISIS and not all the Islamic states and muslim majority countries that violate in almost their entirety every single rule in that list?

I'll take just one to start with.

14 It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights.

Are you suggesting that it is just ISIS that deny women their rights? What about Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran and several others? And it is not just in practice, but written into their laws. I am not going to give a list of these violations because if you don't know by now, you must have had your head in the sand since birth.

And if you check the Islamic texts that support these laws, you will find that they are quoting the Quran and Hadith.

So why haven't the scholars that wrote that document called out not just ISIS, but all the Islamic and Muslim majority states that violate almost all of these rules? It is because they will be told that it is just their interpretation and it is wrong. They have their own scholars that interpret the Quran and Hadith in a different way and that is the way they will follow.

Unlike the Roman Catholic Church which has the Pope and Vatican as their leader, Islam has no leader. There is no single interpretation of the Quran. There is no one to say what it right or wrong. That is why there are different Islamic sects, some more tolerant than others.

But what you should really understand is why this document isn't been used to call out the Islamic and Muslim majority states that violate almost all of these rules but instead just ISIS, is because this document is written to appease critics in the West and for no other reason. To make it look like Islam is all fine and it is just a few renegades that misinterpret its doctrines for their own extremists ends. So you get all the usual crap that what Mohammed or Allah said is taken out of context and that only special scholars are capable of really understanding what was meant (those scholars being them).

I have asked you before how these scholars can seemingly rationalise the gross mistakes in the Quran about our physical universe with our current scientific knowledge, when it was supposedly written by the hand of God. When you read the explanations you see the same deliberate misinterpreting of words to make them say what they didn't actually say, incredulous inferences etc. etc. If you cannot see that this is the same obfuscation to pretend the bleedin' obvious is something different to what it is, then you are beyond persuasion of any sort.
 

An example of what I meant.

Quran Apologists Are Ridiculous

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/02/01/quran-apologists-are-ridiculous/
 

Is there one Christian sect?

I thought it is too.. .seriously, I have no idea the difference between Catholic and Protestant; or the Church of England; or Ultra Orthodox christians as practised in Russia [?], or the Roman Catholic as in Greece [?] Mormons? Evangelicals?


The Koran wasn't written by the hand of God as you stated. It was, as claimed by Muhammad, spoken to him by the angel Gabriel (the same guy from the Christian one) as the word of God (Allah in Arabic).

A bit like Moses chiselling the ten commandment on the tablets and say God spoke to him.


Funny, the same Creator and somehow one's better than the other. Imagine God looking down as the two go at it over and over and over... with both claiming God is on their side each and every time.
 
It wasn't that long ago that the various Christian religions were at each others throats regarding the rightness of their theology. And the Muslims were regarded as a small step above the devil !

If there has been an improvement in the last 20-30 years it has been with mainstream Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddahist religious leaders actively promoting an acceptance of each others beliefs. The overriding view is that which ever God you believe in you are asked to live a good life and that doesn't involve trashing or killing anyone who disagrees with your interpretation of God.

BUT...each religious branch has sects and subsects and the problems of religious hatred appears to come from these groups. Ultra Orthodox Jews, fundamentalist Christian sects, extreme Islamic groups.

________________________________________________________

With regard to treatment of Muslim women in Saudi Arabia and some other Islam countries. It wasn't going to be possible for the open letter to ISIS to then go on condemn every other Islamic country that hasn't moved into the 21st Century. Whatever institution you are you pick your battles with care. Condemning ISIS as a renegade group that is totally outside the law and needs to be stopped is the priority of all governments and religious groups. Bit like the Allies forming the alliance with Stalin in WW2.
 
Dictatorships oppose democracy. The risk that Islam poses to a free country like Australia is that it's a dictatorship whose objective is to replace our democracy with the dictates of Islam. The more we allow that to happen, the more we sacrifice our freedoms and hence our quality of life.
That is why I’m so opposed to Islam being allowed to gain a foothold in our country.

Most Muslims would say ‘Don’t judge us all by the actions of a few extremists – most of us are against extremist behavior, we’re just ordinary people who want to ‘live and let live’.
Sounds reasonable on the surface, but the reality is that the dictatorship if Islam has no room for a ‘live and let live’ attitude. By supporting this dictatorship that is directly opposed to democracy, Muslims are not practicing a ‘live and let live’ philosophy – they’re supporting the erosion of our freedoms and our way of life.
Right now in some Australian cities, entire suburbs are becoming Islamized to the extent that democracy in those suburbs has been replaced by the dictates of Islam. If that’s allowed to keep happening – one suburb then a neighboring suburb then another one becoming Islamized, then the potential is there for entire cities to become Islamic.
Is that what we want for our wonderful free country – our freedoms and our lifestyle gradually replaced by the ugly dictatorship of Islam that brings with it all the problems that plague so many Islamic countries, making life so intolerable that the people start deserting the place like rats from a sinking ship?
I don’t blame them for leaving these troubled countries – I’d do the same myself. But my beef is that in their new countries they set about recreating the same problems that drove them out of their home countries. They don’t have to be terrorists or radicals to recreate these problems – all they have to do is give their support to the insidious dictatorship of Islam.
 

Moderate Muslims at a conference in Norway.

 
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I guess it is what we want if the Muslims want it. They are Australian too.

I remember the enclaves of English migrants in Perth. Entire suburbs of Alf Garnets whining and bleating about everything, the ones who promoted the Tory cause while their dependent families suffered money deprivation, the first/second gens putting Doc Martins and short longs on and beating up poor undefended sods in the centre of town, ... they were a blight on the landscape. But did we demand the English community become vigilantes and force their compatriots to behave like mainstream Wassies....nope.
 
Anyone hear the news about the Jordanian pilot?
Here is some background info which was uploaded to the web in Dec 2008.

 
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