Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

explod · 29 March 2019

Ann said:
That is an interesting sort of job, what is his role there explod and how long has he been down there?

Has to be careful what he says but has been involved for about five years. So is not specific but he is worried for us. My concern is my many Grandchildren of course. Gave up the smoke a few years back but always enjoyed a rollie so thinking about going back to them. Where do you live Anne, would be good to get together for a chinwag sometime.

kahuna1 · 29 March 2019

The Arctic is the canary ...

this is the man ...
Peter Wadhams is professor of Ocean Physics, and Head of the Polar Ocean Physics Group in the Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics, University of Cambridge

North pole last summer was above ZERO .... listen to it ... he I might add on the UN ... the IPCC is very critical of their numbers and DOES ,,,, unlike some who claim to work WITH them ,,

I would add, the Great Barrier reef is 25% the size of what it was 30 years ago and it is unlikely to be more than 10% of what it was in 1985 by 2050.

If someone can explain why the worlds leading expert on Arctic Ice is wrong, along I might add with 30 other fellow of similar qualifications, I am all ears .... oooh and NASA and the EU unit doing the same with two brand new satellites which are bringing in lots of depressing data on ICE thickness in Antarctic regions as well. as Arctic and Greenland every few hours.

explod · 29 March 2019

Did not like giving you that tick, when are we going to go into emergency mode to try and save the planet.

Stop cutting down trees and start planting, fck the car, walk or ride the bike, stop eating meat, grow as much veggies as you can and share, talk to your next door nabour about it and spread the word. Become a vegan green nut and enjoy a new party mode. XXXOO xo

qldfrog · 29 March 2019

But explod you know as well as i do that 3 billions Indians and chineses do not give a ****, so enjoy car cruising if you want to, buy a 4wd and fly to hk for a week end with the missie
Eat steak while you can, and guess what good meat has great taste too

Ann · 29 March 2019

explod said:
Has to be careful what he says but has been involved for about five years. So is not specific but he is worried for us. My concern is my many Grandchildren of course. Gave up the smoke a few years back but always enjoyed a rollie so thinking about going back to them. Where do you live Anne, would be good to get together for a chinwag sometime.

He may not need to worry, I think it will sort itself out. I believe it is amazingly spectacular down there.
However if I am wrong about GW I think we will need to take immediate positive action. All SUVs should be banned except for specific rural needs. All domestic air flights should be banned worldwide and only electric trains should be used to shuttle the population around their countries. No international flights unless on urgent business, international flights should be reduced to a bare minimum. Overseas holiday trips only on board ships. All cars must have emission controls fitted before they can be re-registered and it must be certified. Sales tax should be removed from all EVs and people encouraged to change over their petrol cars. If we do get into a temperature crisis and need more air-conditioning we must invest in cleaner filtering of coal and gas. We need more provision for electricity production. We are working toward the new sustainables but the problem with those is they will cause a lot of waste pollution when their life is up and we will still need ship loads of power to produce the new sustainables to replace them. They may not end up being particularly sustainable longer term with the end of life pollution they will cause.

Now I will be upsetting you but it needs to be said, given I am talking in hypotheticals, cattle should be bunch grazed on permanent grasslands. Vast grasslands are the best carbon sinks, better than trees because if grasslands burn the carbon is stored under ground in their roots but trees when burnt give off stored carbon dioxide. We need the animals to graze to keep fuel down and replenish the land with their dung. One of the thoughts I have had about the increase in carbon dioxide in the air are the new machines which are cultivating the land, it is no longer a man behind a beast opening the soil for crops, it is massive machines that can plow the earth in massive acreage. Every time the earth is plowed it releases carbon. Cattle keeps fuel down, grasslands are carbon sinks, plowed earth releases carbon. In one way if we went totally meat eating and crop free we may see a large reduction of released carbon.

I am bringing the rest of your comments into the CF thread to keep this thread from getting out of context, I find it a bit irritating when that happens.

explod · 29 March 2019

Love your excellent thoughts Ann, however, trees (full grown) provide oxygen for eight people and are being cut down here in Victoria at a frightening rate.

And unfortunately this Is not taken in to by the general community.

Love your interest, but,,,,, its time for another drink as no one else really cares.

Can you help ?

basilio · 29 March 2019

Anyone else taking The Road to Damascus ?

Ann · 29 March 2019

explod said:
Love your excellent thoughts Ann, however, trees (full grown) provide oxygen for eight people and are being cut down here in Victoria at a frightening rate.

I wasn't for a second suggesting we do away with trees, I was suggesting we have more grazing land and less crop land. Trees and grasslands can co-habit very well shade for the cattle and grass for their feed, wonderful carbon sinks and great nutrients for the soil from animals and trees, croplands and trees are not compatible. There is a lot of clear felling for croplands. I think a number of the trees are being cut down because of the threat of bushfires as more people are spreading into the previously uninhabited areas, they need to be protected from fire.

Ann · 29 March 2019

basilio said:
Anyone else taking The Road to Damascus ?

Not me Bas, I am simply playing devils advocate. If everyone is genuinely wanting to do something productive regarding carbon emissions, stop finger pointing and start becoming pro-active within the boundaries in one's own control. We control what we drive, how often we fly, how wasteful we are with power usage, we can install our own solar, some can grow their own vegetables, we can buy all things from second hand shops. Buy a second hand house, a second hand car, second hand clothes, second hand books. Buy nothing new. These are immediate steps we as individuals can take, if each person who genuinely believes we have a problem, takes these actions, it will make a massive difference right now. Standing around waving hysterically worded banners is just a feel good wank. Do something yourself, it is within your own control. Have all the children who were protesting at Parliament House refused to travel to school in their parents cars? I bet they haven't, I bet they hop aboard mum's SUV to be driven the mile to school every day and think nothing of it. I have no idea why you all so desperately want to be taxed by un-elected, shadowy figures from another country? Taxes will definitely not fix the problem, if in fact one exists.

The thing is, this sort of low consumer life has been a part of my behaviour forever. It is my philosophy. Tread softly on the planet, leave no trace. It isn't hard. Put your lifestyle where your mouth is!

rederob · 30 March 2019

Ann said:
I knew what the article meant but one has to ask is if scientists didn't know that ocean temperature is a bigger player in glacier retreats and advances than previously thought, what else don't they know or are misinterpreting? Much store has been put into glacial melts, if this caught them by surprise there may be more surprises in store for scientists of things they previous thought was so but is not.

That would be dishonest of you Ann, else you would not have said " it is pretty amazing this snuck by the Google censors, I guess they missed that it was not doom and gloom news."
In fact it is doom and gloom news.
The ability to now measure much more accurately than ever the effects of climate on glaciers means it is likely that sea level forecasts are overly conservative.

qldfrog · 30 March 2019

Outside the fact that my living in China show me how futile this is :considering the billions of people producing the huge majority of co2 do not give a fxck, well i should say consuming fossil energy which is definitively a crutial problem

If by amiracle we could remove that hard fact, the current regulatory system is a terrible waste
I am currently moving a cottage on my block..second hand wooden qlder moved from city to outer suburb..best reuse you can think of

The amount of red and green tape is abysmal and a major cost not only in money but in waste and resources.
change all windows , doors for fire regulation or building code yet.perfectly good andi wouldwsay better than the aluminium windows replacing them..and see the energy cost
Mandatory water tanks useless in my case
Mandatory screening for esthetic reasons so wood and bolts etc for a house on a 42 acre block hidden among trees, has to look new..yeap mandatory
The current regulation first, one rule fits all is a terribly inefficient use of resources and multiplying it on all aspects of our society must be a tremendous cost to the environment.
This is something I have just become aware of

basilio · 30 March 2019

Ann said:
Not me Bas, I am simply playing devils advocate. If everyone is genuinely wanting to do something productive regarding carbon emissions, stop finger pointing and start becoming pro-active within the boundaries in one's own control. We control what we drive, how often we fly, how wasteful we are with power usage, we can install our own solar, some can grow their own vegetables, we can buy all things from second hand shops. Buy a second hand house, a second hand car, second hand clothes, second hand books. Buy nothing new. These are immediate steps we as individuals can take, if each person who genuinely believes we have a problem, takes these actions, it will make a massive difference right now. Standing around waving hysterically worded banners is just a feel good wank. Do something yourself, it is within your own control. Have all the children who were protesting at Parliament House refused to travel to school in their parents cars? I bet they haven't, I bet they hop aboard mum's SUV to be driven the mile to school every day and think nothing of it. I have no idea why you all so desperately want to be taxed by un-elected, shadowy figures from another country? Taxes will definitely not fix the problem, if in fact one exists.

The thing is, this sort of low consumer life has been a part of my behaviour forever. It is my philosophy. Tread softly on the planet, leave no trace. It isn't hard. Put your lifestyle where your mouth is!

Come on Ann be real.
Of course we can all "do something" about our immediate effect on the environment. But unfortunately as individuals we can't do something individually about the biggest issues that are creating havoc with our environment.

To do that we need collective action developed by our representative government and implemented through well framed laws. And to get that action we need to make it clear as a united community we ant this to happen

Simple examples
1) The threat posed by CFC's destroying the ozone layer could only be addressed by firstly identifying the problem (CFC's) then banning its use and at the same time finding an alternative product.

2) Industrial poisoning of the environment by dangerous products (ie lead in petrol, paint, consumer goods) could only be stopped by again identifying the source of the problem and then passing and enforcing laws to prevent this happening again.

Human caused global warming is the biggest threat facing our planet and our societies. We know the cause. We know the solutions. We know the consequences of inaction.

Get on board or get out of the way.

kahuna1 · 30 March 2019

Trees ?

One must be kidding ? Or not able to do math.
One hectare of trees removes 4 tons of CO2. IF you ignore what was growing there.

Australia emits 500 million tons of CO2 each year. So we would need 125 million HECTARES of trees JUST to make it neutral for ONE year .... or 1.25 million sq KM .... which is impossible for many many reasons.

Globally 37 billion man made tons ... again NOT possible ... there is NOT enough land left after that being cultivated and grazed upon added to urban sprawl and 50 million sq km of ALPS mountains or under the arctic and Antarctic.

Morrison our fearless but just as stupid as Trump leader plans to plant a billion trees over 15 years. At 2000 tress per hectare, that is 500,000 hectares OR .... 5,000 SQ km compared to the 1.25 million SQ km needed to capture what we emit each year. That is 0.4% ... of WHAT we emit each year.

I will add, trees live and die so they STOP being net CO2 capture when they mature, die and rot so after 40 years, this CYCLE goes on again, so a tree will only capture it for 40 years.

When I hear people talking about tree's its instantly obvious how little they KNOW and think they know about CO2 and the last 5 times the planet had an extinction event. It is absurd, idiotic and insulting to even suggest tree's are the answer. THEY are just not good enough at absorbing the CO2. To suggest anything along planting trees as a solution is one way to have everyone know your an idiot in the room.

A combination of a lot of measures will be needed if we are to tackle this event. OR NOT .... it may be a good thing a greedy cruel species dies out within 200 years. Maybe the slate wiped clean is a good thing and in light of some of the comments of late, a very good thing.

Not only CAPTURE of CO2 will be needed, but something to ablate the effects of the sun and reflect it back, along with something into the ocean so it DOES NOT enter what is likely a feedback loop post 2100 where the carbon it captures, well over 65% of it, is not released and the atmosphere. There is clearly one feedback loop about to occur, one from the Arctic and Permafrost. That is itself a massive historical carbon capture area which ended the LAST extinction event 65 million years ago in part. Releasing 1.8 trillion tons of CO2 and a high percentage of methane will triple ... YES TRIPLE the amount of CO2 in the air released. First off, there will be what amounts to a fart as frozen vegetation and dead bodies frozen for a million years starts to thaw in earnest and 50 billion tons of CO2 and hopefully .... HOPEFULLY ... less than 2 million tons of Methane is release ... CH4.

I say hopefully less than 2 million tons pf Methane because letting that much GO ... at once will not enable the atmosphere which already struggles with breaking CH4 down ... well the best estimate is that it will hit like a bloody hammer and be not 26 times worse than CO2 but a minimum of 86 times worse. That is a 2 billion ton methane fart. Any bigger and its over 100 times or say a hit of 20 PPM of CO2 per million tons. Doesn't sound like much but that's just the start of ARCTIC melt.

If like Trump, or Morrison .... or Barnaby and are in denial ... that too is fine. There have been 5 events that caused 76% to 99% of every animal plant and living thing to die. MOST took millions of years and even the last one, a meteor hitting took 35,000 years to kill 50% of species, and 200,000 years to hit 2,000 PPM CO2 from 250. We will hit the first milestone post industrial by 2100 of killing 50% of all life. As to the 2,000 PPM, myself as a highly regarded predicative model builder especially for non linear events, put it at best ... AT BEST .... 2150 ... likely 2130.

So post 1850 to 2130 is 280 years, NOT 200,000 years. I am by the way only taking PART of one feedback loop and a tiny part of another into account. The ocean, which provides over 60% of the oxygen we breathe I sadly suspect will be HIT much harder and quicker and its ability to absorb will we slashed along with oxygen production. I am sure it will over time adapt. OVER TIME ... naturally it would take over a million years as it did in the past.

We can alter this outcome, or NOT. We have the ability to adapt and change, FOR NOW. Its about to disappear. TOTALLY ... with current technology that is.

TREE's whilst positive are an idiots response to a wing falling off a plane in flight that they will superglue it back on ... in flight. There are far better solutions and barring the inventions of free massive power such as cold fusion and being able to remove CO2 via brute force, using the same energy that drives your car to remove it ... we are going to need some serious work.

IF ... as I suspect, along with all 300 experts in the Permafrost of the ARCTIC agree, there will be an initial release of the 1.8 trillion tons of captured and frozen trapped CO2 and methane within 5-10 years, of around 50 billion tons, part methane so around 7-8 years AT ONCE of CO2 released, making an immediate feedback loop of warmer and warmer ARCTIC regions, less white snow to reflect the sun and so on ... when I hear someone like Trump speak about MORE ice, and YES last year if you listened to the worlds leading expert from CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY he did not go into the actual details that need another bloody expert and that one is CANADIAN on ice, the guy who went to the NORTH pole at 13 knots last summer .... the ICE, whilst on camera looks good, its less than 30 cm thick, filled with salt and lasts less than a month in warmer weather. WHEN we have a summer with less than 1.5 million sq km of ice left, and its likely SOON if not this year as its not looking good, well .... that methane fart begins.

Then again, I can ignore it. Most alive today CAN ignore it. Unless your in Bangladesh or some low lying place, the 25 cm by 2050 is not going to hit you. Even by 2075, a mere 50 cm as the rise rapidly accelerates as the ocean warms and the last ARCTIC ice melts and even Greenland hits issues, even by 2100 a mere 85 cm rise in oceans is NOT the point.

When we have 3 degrees added to the tropics, outside Air Conditioning, in summer at over 40 degrees your kidneys DO NOT FUNCTION that well. Middle east highs at well over 50 degrees and same for Australia in part, with 10 billion verses 7.2 billion people, the ability to even grow food is unlikely without massive crop fails globally. That is of course in the future. One or more crop fails is likely on a grand scale pre 2050 with a poorer nation hit with a few events droughts, followed by cyclones, followed by floods then drought and 2 cyclones in a single season, 100 year ones and hey presto ...

Depressed ? Going to plant a tree ? We only have ONE tool ... A VOTE. ... and whilst not amused by either parties plans and the fact the USA and most others around the globe are NOT aware how dire it is ... or caring , even when the UN and IPCC releases a report that says much the same ... all be it watered down ... missing totally impossible to avoid events like ARCTIC PERMAFROST frozen vegetation actually thawing and rotting ... or the ocean acidification being 50% more than 30 years ago ...

USA media in 2018 reported climate change 45% LESS than 2017 .... which says we, as a planet are stuffed. Stuffed totally following a corrupt USA which is being run via Billionaires and the United nations representative for the USA is a bloody housewife, with NO WORK EXPERIENCE .... other than 3 kids and 3 marriages but she is there ... because her last husband is a coal BARON and donated 3 million to elect Trump ... I kid you NOT !!

To be honest, even with technology .... even being most positive self ... and I am aware of the cutting edge of most of the emerging technologies, I believe sadly the USA is the highest per capita emitter and DOESN'T CARE ... its all a hoax. Sadly Trump in till 2024 ? Then his son ? Or does a civil war break out as those outside the top 1% with no healthcare act ? Without draconian action .... and post 2030 IT WILL NOT MATTER .... even if we stopped emitting all together ... the ARCTIC ice and permafrost not covered in meters of snow but a dusting which will melt and the thaw will be in earnest and even the bloody North Pole was ABOVE FREEZING .... ABOVE freezing last summer .... so releasing 3 times what already is up there .... leading to one, two and likely 3 other feedback loops making things worse ...

Time is basically UP .... either radical change politically occurs. So too with trade ,,, you emit ... we tax you like no tomorrow ... and then we as a planet merely switch a few things around ... cost under 1% of GDP ... less than oil and gas enjoy as tax breaks and subsidies ... and we have a chance ... NOW in 2019 2020 .... by 2030 ... well ... harder at 450 PPM CO2 v around 50 million years at 250 PPM .... and at 450 PPM about to be hit without doubt by Permafrost issues ... so 1,000 PPM by 2100 ... and setting off some nasty other things so ...

well go plant a tree !! Seriously ....

We know what stopped all 5 of the past extinction events where CO2 was 1,500 PPM or above and everything dies. Saying CO2 or the last one gave rise to humans is correct and the ARCTIC and down south were vast warm swamps ... mind you it took about a million years for the soil to change up there and down there to support the life, in the meantime the slate was wiped CLEAN ... sure some life survived but NOT 10 billion needy GREEDY humans !!

Even I am depressed writing this. There is HOWEVER hope and USA either elects a new regime in 2020 ... OR WE as a a species must abandon .... totally abandon them !! They certainly are not Australia friends and Google not paying any taxes with Apple and Microsoft and the rest ... Chevron and so on cost 30 billion a year !! Similar for the EU via USA based oligarchy members tax evasion and theft. IT WOULD PAY ... all alone for a fighting chance .

Enuf ... out to plant those trees.

Ann · 30 March 2019

rederob said:
That would be dishonest of you Ann, else you would not have said " it is pretty amazing this snuck by the Google censors, I guess they missed that it was not doom and gloom news."
In fact it is doom and gloom news.

I am wondering if in fact these are scientists trying to get the truth out that it is not all doom and gloom with the rebuilding of the ice but knowing unless they keep to the party line of bad news, their stuff will not be disseminated. No idea if this is so but being the perennial optimist, it is something I shall watch for.
This info came out a while back, another way scientists are telling us things may not be so bad as they just made mistakes in their science. Scientists acknowledge key errors in study of how fast the oceans are warming
If you can't read that link for the article, here is another site with the same article.

basilio said:
Get on board or get out of the way.

This does seem to be a recurring theme among the whole GW agenda, debate is always shut down. People with other views are ostracized, vilified, insulted and shunned if there is the least bit of opposition to the propagandized viewpoint. Number one red flag of a problem with popularly held beliefs.

explod · 30 March 2019

kahuna1 said:
Trees ?

One must be kidding ? Or not able to do math.
One hectare of trees removes 4 tons of CO2. IF you ignore what was growing there.

Australia emits 500 million tons of CO2 each year. So we would need 125 million HECTARES of trees JUST to make it neutral for ONE year .... or 1.25 million sq KM .... which is impossible for many many reasons.

Globally 37 billion man made tons ... again NOT possible ... there is NOT enough land left after that being cultivated and grazed upon added to urban sprawl and 50 million sq km of ALPS mountains or under the arctic and Antarctic.

Morrison our fearless but just as stupid as Trump leader plans to plant a billion trees over 15 years. At 2000 tress per hectare, that is 500,000 hectares OR .... 5,000 SQ km compared to the 1.25 million SQ km needed to capture what we emit each year. That is 0.4% ... of WHAT we emit each year.

I will add, trees live and die so they STOP being net CO2 capture when they mature, die and rot so after 40 years, this CYCLE goes on again, so a tree will only capture it for 40 years.

When I hear people talking about tree's its instantly obvious how little they KNOW and think they know about CO2 and the last 5 times the planet had an extinction event. It is absurd, idiotic and insulting to even suggest tree's are the answer. THEY are just not good enough at absorbing the CO2. To suggest anything along planting trees as a solution is one way to have everyone know your an idiot in the room.

A combination of a lot of measures will be needed if we are to tackle this event. OR NOT .... it may be a good thing a greedy cruel species dies out within 200 years. Maybe the slate wiped clean is a good thing and in light of some of the comments of late, a very good thing.

Not only CAPTURE of CO2 will be needed, but something to ablate the effects of the sun and reflect it back, along with something into the ocean so it DOES NOT enter what is likely a feedback loop post 2100 where the carbon it captures, well over 65% of it, is not released and the atmosphere. There is clearly one feedback loop about to occur, one from the Arctic and Permafrost. That is itself a massive historical carbon capture area which ended the LAST extinction event 65 million years ago in part. Releasing 1.8 trillion tons of CO2 and a high percentage of methane will triple ... YES TRIPLE the amount of CO2 in the air released. First off, there will be what amounts to a fart as frozen vegetation and dead bodies frozen for a million years starts to thaw in earnest and 50 billion tons of CO2 and hopefully .... HOPEFULLY ... less than 2 million tons of Methane is release ... CH4.

I say hopefully less than 2 million tons pf Methane because letting that much GO ... at once will not enable the atmosphere which already struggles with breaking CH4 down ... well the best estimate is that it will hit like a bloody hammer and be not 26 times worse than CO2 but a minimum of 86 times worse. That is a 2 billion ton methane fart. Any bigger and its over 100 times or say a hit of 20 PPM of CO2 per million tons. Doesn't sound like much but that's just the start of ARCTIC melt.

If like Trump, or Morrison .... or Barnaby and are in denial ... that too is fine. There have been 5 events that caused 76% to 99% of every animal plant and living thing to die. MOST took millions of years and even the last one, a meteor hitting took 35,000 years to kill 50% of species, and 200,000 years to hit 2,000 PPM CO2 from 250. We will hit the first milestone post industrial by 2100 of killing 50% of all life. As to the 2,000 PPM, myself as a highly regarded predicative model builder especially for non linear events, put it at best ... AT BEST .... 2150 ... likely 2130.

So post 1850 to 2130 is 280 years, NOT 200,000 years. I am by the way only taking PART of one feedback loop and a tiny part of another into account. The ocean, which provides over 60% of the oxygen we breathe I sadly suspect will be HIT much harder and quicker and its ability to absorb will we slashed along with oxygen production. I am sure it will over time adapt. OVER TIME ... naturally it would take over a million years as it did in the past.

We can alter this outcome, or NOT. We have the ability to adapt and change, FOR NOW. Its about to disappear. TOTALLY ... with current technology that is.

TREE's whilst positive are an idiots response to a wing falling off a plane in flight that they will superglue it back on ... in flight. There are far better solutions and barring the inventions of free massive power such as cold fusion and being able to remove CO2 via brute force, using the same energy that drives your car to remove it ... we are going to need some serious work.

IF ... as I suspect, along with all 300 experts in the Permafrost of the ARCTIC agree, there will be an initial release of the 1.8 trillion tons of captured and frozen trapped CO2 and methane within 5-10 years, of around 50 billion tons, part methane so around 7-8 years AT ONCE of CO2 released, making an immediate feedback loop of warmer and warmer ARCTIC regions, less white snow to reflect the sun and so on ... when I hear someone like Trump speak about MORE ice, and YES last year if you listened to the worlds leading expert from CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY he did not go into the actual details that need another bloody expert and that one is CANADIAN on ice, the guy who went to the NORTH pole at 13 knots last summer .... the ICE, whilst on camera looks good, its less than 30 cm thick, filled with salt and lasts less than a month in warmer weather. WHEN we have a summer with less than 1.5 million sq km of ice left, and its likely SOON if not this year as its not looking good, well .... that methane fart begins.

Then again, I can ignore it. Most alive today CAN ignore it. Unless your in Bangladesh or some low lying place, the 25 cm by 2050 is not going to hit you. Even by 2075, a mere 50 cm as the rise rapidly accelerates as the ocean warms and the last ARCTIC ice melts and even Greenland hits issues, even by 2100 a mere 85 cm rise in oceans is NOT the point.

When we have 3 degrees added to the tropics, outside Air Conditioning, in summer at over 40 degrees your kidneys DO NOT FUNCTION that well. Middle east highs at well over 50 degrees and same for Australia in part, with 10 billion verses 7.2 billion people, the ability to even grow food is unlikely without massive crop fails globally. That is of course in the future. One or more crop fails is likely on a grand scale pre 2050 with a poorer nation hit with a few events droughts, followed by cyclones, followed by floods then drought and 2 cyclones in a single season, 100 year ones and hey presto ...

Depressed ? Going to plant a tree ? We only have ONE tool ... A VOTE. ... and whilst not amused by either parties plans and the fact the USA and most others around the globe are NOT aware how dire it is ... or caring , even when the UN and IPCC releases a report that says much the same ... all be it watered down ... missing totally impossible to avoid events like ARCTIC PERMAFROST frozen vegetation actually thawing and rotting ... or the ocean acidification being 50% more than 30 years ago ...

USA media in 2018 reported climate change 45% LESS than 2017 .... which says we, as a planet are stuffed. Stuffed totally following a corrupt USA which is being run via Billionaires and the United nations representative for the USA is a bloody housewife, with NO WORK EXPERIENCE .... other than 3 kids and 3 marriages but she is there ... because her last husband is a coal BARON and donated 3 million to elect Trump ... I kid you NOT !!

To be honest, even with technology .... even being most positive self ... and I am aware of the cutting edge of most of the emerging technologies, I believe sadly the USA is the highest per capita emitter and DOESN'T CARE ... its all a hoax. Sadly Trump in till 2024 ? Then his son ? Or does a civil war break out as those outside the top 1% with no healthcare act ? Without draconian action .... and post 2030 IT WILL NOT MATTER .... even if we stopped emitting all together ... the ARCTIC ice and permafrost not covered in meters of snow but a dusting which will melt and the thaw will be in earnest and even the bloody North Pole was ABOVE FREEZING .... ABOVE freezing last summer .... so releasing 3 times what already is up there .... leading to one, two and likely 3 other feedback loops making things worse ...

Time is basically UP .... either radical change politically occurs. So too with trade ,,, you emit ... we tax you like no tomorrow ... and then we as a planet merely switch a few things around ... cost under 1% of GDP ... less than oil and gas enjoy as tax breaks and subsidies ... and we have a chance ... NOW in 2019 2020 .... by 2030 ... well ... harder at 450 PPM CO2 v around 50 million years at 250 PPM .... and at 450 PPM about to be hit without doubt by Permafrost issues ... so 1,000 PPM by 2100 ... and setting off some nasty other things so ...

well go plant a tree !! Seriously ....

We know what stopped all 5 of the past extinction events where CO2 was 1,500 PPM or above and everything dies. Saying CO2 or the last one gave rise to humans is correct and the ARCTIC and down south were vast warm swamps ... mind you it took about a million years for the soil to change up there and down there to support the life, in the meantime the slate was wiped CLEAN ... sure some life survived but NOT 10 billion needy GREEDY humans !!

Even I am depressed writing this. There is HOWEVER hope and USA either elects a new regime in 2020 ... OR WE as a a species must abandon .... totally abandon them !! They certainly are not Australia friends and Google not paying any taxes with Apple and Microsoft and the rest ... Chevron and so on cost 30 billion a year !! Similar for the EU via USA based oligarchy members tax evasion and theft. IT WOULD PAY ... all alone for a fighting chance .

Enuf ... out to plant those trees.

That is a very good post kahuna 1.

However it is disturbing to say the least as here we have solid facts, not beliefs or thoughts on the sudden and real destruction of our planet.

The time for thinking is over as clearly voiced by the young teenagers around the world recently.

I recommend ASF members take Kahuna's post in carefully and spread it. Everyone needs to sit up and act now.

rederob · 30 March 2019

Ann said:
I am wondering if in fact these are scientists trying to get the truth out that it is not all doom and gloom with the rebuilding of the ice but knowing unless they keep to the party line of bad news, their stuff will not be disseminated. No idea if this is so but being the perennial optimist, it is something I shall watch for.
This info came out a while back, another way scientists are telling us things may not be so bad as they just made mistakes in their science. Scientists acknowledge key errors in study of how fast the oceans are warming
If you can't read that link for the article, here is another site with the same article.

This does seem to be a recurring theme among the whole GW agenda, debate is always shut down. People with other views are ostracized, vilified, insulted and shunned if there is the least bit of opposition to the propagandized viewpoint. Number one red flag of a problem with popularly held beliefs.

Ann, you have mastered ignorance.
You are clueless on climate and continue to make comments which simply do not accord with reality.
The Greenland issue is a natural phenomenon, well explained, but until now, difficult to precisely measure.
The paper is peer reviewed science, so your comments about dissemination reflect how little you appreciate about science.
Your optimism appears based on the ignorance which pervades you - read what else the authors of the linked paper had to say as it is the opposite of what you think.
No AGW debate is shut down: where did you get that idea - the science continues.
Unfortunately those of your ilk don't grasp what is happening, obfuscate, confuse, misdirect and want to blame others for what you do not understand.
You are not being "vilified", as you claim. You are being called out for your utter incompetence in this realm.

SirRumpole · 30 March 2019

basilio said:
But we certainly need less stuff in our lives..

True, we can do without a lot of stuff, mainly imported rubbish.

Are we willing to pay more for sustainable goods, and how are companies that rely on planned obsolescence going to react ?

Ann · 30 March 2019

rederob said:
That would be dishonest of you Ann

rederob said:
Ann, you have mastered ignorance

rederob said:
your utter incompetence

...and that is just from two posts, I could find so many, many more examples of your rude, arrogant, bombastic and bullying manner toward me. I have respect for Bas and explod and others because even though they may disagree with what I am saying, which is fine, at least they display good manners and common courtesy. Good manners, at all times should always be a starting point in any communication or conversation.

kahuna1 · 30 March 2019

"rebuilding of the ice ?"

If your kidding, you win !! Troll worked. I did provide U tube from the worlds leading expert on the topic. ICE ... I have in the past given the second and third best. on Arctic issues.

You did NOT even bother listening to it. That much is clear. He talked about POLAR vortex and WHY lat year it broke and we saw massively low temps much further SOUTH in the USA because the ARCTIC was too bloody warm.

That said, the ICE .... salt filled ice ... yes did cover 1 million sq KM more at its peak than the previous year. It was THIN ... SALT filled and RIGHT NOW .... not even into the summer ... ITS GONE .... GONE and 2019 will be a new LOW for Summer cover without too much doubt. Its over the cliff .... WELL past any hope of recovery, and SINCE satellites have been watching it since 1978 ..... that's 40 years .... and the new ones MEASURE the thickness, its actually 10% as THICK ... ARCTIC ICE ... over the whole 15 million SQ km region it inhabits .... 10% as THICK as in 1984.

10% as THICK .... yes still some close to coast glacier type stuff, but NOT much of that left and its been eroded during summer.

I have said this before, scientific and not my findings but a consensus of 99% on Arctic Ice and Permafrost exists with scientists, MORE than the overall 97% consensus on climate change issues.

For some, the Earth is always flat. For some, NASA with 100,000 people who sent people to the moon it was all faked. That a laser can be shot at the moon, at the reflectors there and BOUNCE back, showing clearly some mirror or reflector is on the surface of the moon is THERE. Still, around 25% of Americans believe they may not have gone to the moon.

We, as a species, Humanity, with oil and coal barons running the USA along with other rich 1% who have agendas similar, to make money and bugger everyone else, WE ARE DOOMED. Doomed without change. Doomed as a species much like the movies Sudden Impact, and Independence Day or Armageddon where USA saves the day from an asteroid, or Alien invaders. We in a parody of those movies and will not be saved by USA saving the day. WE ARE STUFFED by the USA. No superman in USA flag costume or Wonder Woman in the same is going to save us.

We, as a greedy, weak and shameful species will be consumed by a few peoples greed and political influence and 10,000 various members will decide the fate of 7.3 billion others.

Then again, 15% of the population has an IQ under 85. With google and Facebook and media feeding you news that you like, climate denier ... gets fed that diet, race hater, gets fed that, the number of imbeciles is likely 40%. Unable to think with the 3 kg of meat on their shoulders called a brain.

Less than 2% of Humans have an IQ over 130. The people I tend to try and quote and learn from are not the lower 40% but the top 2%. People with IQ's over 140, and in many ways its a curse, are a mere 0.5%. So about one in 200. On the climate side, the top guys and without exception are of a well founded view temperature will rise by more than 4 degrees by 2100. Without action, which is impossible since eventually even the stupid will follow, its unlikely we will prevail as a species.

Not in the numbers here now, or likely 10 billion souls by 2050. Maybe, and a big maybe, that this planet is even inhabitable post 2300. Oh and that guy, a man with ALS who passed away, is about a one in a million IQ called Stephen Hawking. I did not agree with his conclusion because, I have HOPE and some hope, until proven wrong. Then again, I am a mental midget compared to most. He and some others, might disagree but then again he is no longer here. I am irrelevant either way.

Take care,
Mark K.

rederob · 30 March 2019

Ann said:
...and that is just from two posts, I could find so many, many more examples of your rude, arrogant, bombastic and bullying manner toward me. I have respect for Bas and explod and others because even though they may disagree with what I am saying, which is fine, at least they display good manners and common courtesy. Good manners, at all times should always be a starting point in any communication or conversation.

First, you are either dishonest in your remarks, or not bright enough to work out you were.
Second and thirdly, you have displayed utter ignorance of climate science in the majority of your posts.
I really don't care who you respect here as it does not change what you post, nor the science which you are incapable of appreciating, even after being told.
You feign vilification, whereas you will not stop posting rubbish.

Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

explod

explod

explod

explod

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