Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

[basilio]

It seems a reasonable proposal to me.

The only concern I would have, given its origins, is just to make sure they haven't snuck a role for investment banks taxing the entire economy in there somewhere.

That might sound a bit "tin foil hat" but then I've seen how a similar scenario has unfolded with electricity in Australia, in a manner which directly increases emissions in the process, so anything's possible if there's away for someone to siphon off a few $ billion.

So long as there's nothing like that, and there doesn't appear to be so it's just a word of caution on my part there, then it seems a reasonable way forward.

There are many fathers to the carbon tax/carbon dividend idea. It is an elegant concept that has drawn support across political divides.

To my knowledge there are no hidden investment bank opportunities to snaffle a few billion in the process.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fee_and_dividend

Hansen to Obama: Support a Carbon Tax | Worldwatch Institute
www.worldwatch.org/node/5962
Yet Hansen and other carbon tax supporters insist that the debate between the ... in favor of increased fossil fuel taxes, and 44 percent opposed the proposal. (Incorporates 100% dividend distribution of the tax)

Carbon Fee and Dividend Policy - Citizens' Climate Lobby
https://citizensclimatelobby.org/carbon-fee-and-dividend/
A national, revenue-neutral carbon fee-and-dividend system would place a predictable, ... Co-Benefits: Whereas the measures proposed in this legislation will benefit the ... Change (IPCC) to avoid irreversible climate change, the yearly increase in carbon ..... and Economic Benefits) · Household Impact Study · Supporters ...

Exxon Mobil Lends Its Support to a Carbon Tax Proposal - The New ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/science/exxon-carbon-tax.html
Jun 20, 2017 - The company is supporting a carbon tax proposed by the Climate Leadership ... and returning the money to taxpayers as a “climate dividend.
Young Republicans Embrace Carbon Fee Proposal | CleanTechnica
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/03/.../young-republicans-embrace-carbon-fee-proposa...
Mar 7, 2018 - In fact, the sponsors prefer to call their proposal a carbon rebate rather .... Tags: ., carbon dividend plan, carbon tax, Climate change, Climate ...

The Republican Carbon Tax Is Republican, Say ... - The Atlantic
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/...proposal...carbon-tax.../516048/
Feb 8, 2017 - But a carbon tax-and-dividend scheme really could be an elegant, ... Their proposal is called “The Conservative Case for Carbon Dividends. ... a path for Republicans to support the policy without looking like hypocrites.

 

[SirRumpole]

Hottest financial year on recording according to BOM.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-05/hottest-fin-year-on-record-bom-data-show/9930606

 

[Smurf1976]

Now I hear there’s a heatwave in Canada which has caused deaths.

Canada, the Middle East, UK & Europe and here in Australia have all seen new temperature extremes in recent years and the trend of being warmer than usual is becoming all to familiar worldwide.

Thinking about it rationally I strongly suspect we’re now past the point where orderly solutions are workable.

My expectation is that there will be some sort of major “incident” in a key country, and realistically that means the US, and a decade later fossil fuels will largely be gone from common use with the transition resembling a full scale war in more ways than one.

Timing is anyone’s guess but it does seem pretty hard to deny that there’s a problem these days.

 

[basilio]

Thinking about it rationally I strongly suspect we’re now past the point where orderly solutions are workable.

My expectation is that there will be some sort of major “incident” in a key country, and realistically that means the US, and a decade later fossil fuels will largely be gone from common use with the transition resembling a full scale war in more ways than one.

That realisation has been understood by climate scientists for the past 15-20 years. The time for an "orderly" solution response probably closed in the mid nineties.

Critical incidents ? Absolutely certain. But I'm not confident we can get a decent government response from a society that still denies CC is real or a problem or that greenhouse gases have to be drastically reduced to have any chance of mitigating the effects.

This is what emergency action might look like.
https://www.theclimatemobilization.org/

On a practical level I think Richard Heinberg has a more nuanced approach.

Why Climate Change Isn’t Our Biggest Environmental Problem, and Why Technology Won’t Save Us
Richard Heinberg

August 17, 2017

http://www.postcarbon.org/why-clima...ntal-problem-and-why-technology-wont-save-us/

 

[explod]

There is nothing more we can do or say. When we have politicians, working less and being paid more and they cannot understand or relate to the old pensioner who worked diligently for fifty years supporting the community and can no longer afford to rent a property in which to live. And as a Red Cross volunteer I can sight endless tragedies that are completely ignored, so what hope do we have, and on top we have Mr Rabbit wanting to get more coal fired power going.

Yes power is a problem, elderly going cold because they can no longer afford gas. Oh, that's right we sold most of it off to the Chinese for $5 a litre.

So climate change has no hope of hitting the quick when there are no brains who understand life and reality on the ground.

I feel for my children and grandchildren everyday and envy those who never had children.

So just party, if you can

 

[explod]

In my last post here it should read for gas to China at "5 cents a litre"

 

[Tisme]

Apparently Rangas are an endangered species if global warming does occur ...according to highly esteemed www.councilestate.co.uk that is.

 

[basilio]

Japan is in the middle of a monumental flood situation as unpredented rains keep on coming.

Japan flooding and landslides kill dozens as millions are ordered to evacuate homes
By North Asia Correspondent Jake Sturmer in Tokyo
At least 66 people have died and many more are missing after heavy rains caused flooding and landslides across much of western Japan.

Key points:

• In Motoyama, south of Hiroshima, 583 millimetres of rain fell between Friday and Saturday morning
• Heavy rains are expected to continue through Sunday
• 48,000 police, firefighters and Self-Defence Force personnel have responded to calls for help

Hiroshima Prefecture was hit the hardest with numerous landslides that killed at least 15 people and authorities have warned that the death toll will continue to rise.

Many of the dead had ignored evacuation orders, choosing to stay in their homes despite warnings.

Almost 5 million people have been told to evacuate as homes have been destroyed and cars swept away.

Since the downpour began on Thursday, the weather agency has forecast record amounts of rain through Sunday, warning of flooding, mudslides and lightning strikes.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-08/japan-flooding-and-landslides-kill-dozens-of-people/9954102


Just another predictable oucome of a warming climate. Check out the 2012 analysis of the effects of CC on Japan
https://www.env.go.jp/en/earth/cc/impacts_FY2012.pdf

 

[Smurf1976]

Almost 5 million people have been told to evacuate

I've never been to Japan so not overly familiar with it but 5 million is a lot of people to be evacuating from anywhere.

Do they actually have somewhere to put them all? It's a big number.

 

[explod]

One report stated 1 million homes destroyed. Now that is not good and the rain continues

 

[Smurf1976]

One report stated 1 million homes destroyed.

It's hard to comprehend the scale involved.

In Australian terms it's like saying every house in WA, including Perth, has been destroyed.

Or that every home in SA and Tas is gone from the city CBD's to middle of nowhere farms.

Or the whole of Brisbane including all suburbs.

It's somewhat hard to get my mind around the scale of that.

 

[luutzu]

It's hard to comprehend the scale involved.

In Australian terms it's like saying every house in WA, including Perth, has been destroyed.

Or that every home in SA and Tas is gone from the city CBD's to middle of nowhere farms.

Or the whole of Brisbane including all suburbs.

It's somewhat hard to get my mind around the scale of that.

Yea, just hard to comprehend.

It's also fortunate in that Japan is a very rich country and those residents can afford to move.

If a similar event hit similarly populated area but its residents, and their gov't, cannot afford to move or rescue. Man.

 

[Tisme]

Being a mountainous country, Japan is prone to mud slides. I was rather surprised at how alluvial their hills are compared to eroded Australia, which of course is way older than 15 million yearold Japan and zip volcanoes.

 

[explod]

"Ian Dunlop
13 hrs

Extreme Heat in Northern Siberia and Arctic
Profound implications for Australia

This week will see unprecedented heat extremes in Northern Siberia and the Laptev Sea as temperatures soar 20-30 degC higher than normal, accelerating carbon emissions from permafrost melt and methane clathrates, generating even greater warming – one of the dangerous tipping points which have concerned scientists for years. It is now happening.

This is in addition to record heat extremes around the Northern Hemisphere over the last few weeks.

Meanwhile, in the Canberra goldfish bowl, scientifically-illiterate parliamentarians propose massive expansion of coal which would further accelerate this process.

We are more exposed to the impact of this warming than any other continent. Drought is in full swing, farming land is rendered increasingly unproductive; this process will accelerate, with impact across society. We are totally unprepared for what is now developing.

The first priority of government is the security of the people. The political cesspit in Canberra is utterly failing Australians by refusing to wake up to reality. If we want to survive, time for totally diffferent emergency government, not just new policies."

https://wxclimonews.com/2018/07/02/...beria-and-the-coastal-arctic-ocean-this-week/

 

[explod]

Being a mountainous country, Japan is prone to mud slides. I was rather surprised at how alluvial their hills are compared to eroded Australia, which of course is way older than 15 million yearold Japan and zip volcanoes.

So the planners did a very poor job if they knew (as you do) that the area of these million homes was prone to flooding and landslides on such a scale.

No time for pretending that it is not real anymore. Our planet is in real trouble and falling apart. Floods, cyclones, fires, droughts and increasing extremes between hot and cold.

 

[Tisme]

So the planners did a very poor job if they knew (as you do) that the area of these million homes was prone to flooding and landslides on such a scale.

No time for pretending that it is not real anymore. Our planet is in real trouble and falling apart. Floods, cyclones, fires, droughts and increasing extremes between hot and cold.

In this example, is there any definitive data to show aberrations aren't just that, or if infact they are aberrations?

A media hysteria filter would need to be applied to make sure skew sensationalism is removed.

 

[basilio]

On a more positive note I came across this organisation which believes that if we are prepared to confront what needs to be done to reverse CC - we can do it.

Ambitious ? Certainly. But if we don't take this seriously then the alternative is Explods vision. - party till we go.

Project Drawdown is the most comprehensive plan ever proposed to reverse global warming. Our organization did not make or devise the plan—we found the plan because it already exists. We gathered a qualified and diverse group of researchers from around the world to identify, research, and model the 100 most substantive, existing solutions to address climate change. What was uncovered is a path forward that can roll back global warming within thirty years. It shows that humanity has the means at hand. Nothing new needs to be invented. The solutions are in place and in action. Our work is to accelerate the knowledge and growth of what is possible. We chose the name Drawdown because if we do not name the goal, we are unlikely to achieve it.
https://www.drawdown.org/

 

[cynic]

On a more positive note I came across this organisation which believes that if we are prepared to confront what needs to be done to reverse CC - we can do it.

Ambitious ? Certainly. But if we don't take this seriously then the alternative is Explods vision. - party till we go.

Project Drawdown is the most comprehensive plan ever proposed to reverse global warming. Our organization did not make or devise the plan—we found the plan because it already exists. We gathered a qualified and diverse group of researchers from around the world to identify, research, and model the 100 most substantive, existing solutions to address climate change. What was uncovered is a path forward that can roll back global warming within thirty years. It shows that humanity has the means at hand. Nothing new needs to be invented. The solutions are in place and in action. Our work is to accelerate the knowledge and growth of what is possible. We chose the name Drawdown because if we do not name the goal, we are unlikely to achieve it.
https://www.drawdown.org/

Have you bought and read the book yet?
If so, how was it, and are there any drawbacks?

 

[basilio]

Have you bought and read the book yet?
If so, how was it, and are there any drawbacks?

Havn't bought the book. Did read the website and the scores of solutions they have found and suggested

I can see merit in almost all of the propositions. They are almost entirely "no regret" proposals which will be worthwhile regardless of the effects on CC.
I'm not sure how the maths of actually reducing CO2 in the atmosphere stands up. It is a monumental ask. But at least more useful than pretending there is nothing to worry about.
.........................................................................................
My larger concern is that in reality we cannot begin such a huge process from a strong and stable position. The facts are that the problems CC is causing will create their own nightmares and require immediate attention on many fronts. Just for example increasing sea levels will simultaneously threaten population centres around the world. The energy/resources required to address each of these situations will be immense.

 

[basilio]

There is a world wide heat wave at the moment creating disasters around the world and record temperatures. Is it due to CC? Apparently yes-- but not just CC.
The big heatwave: from Algeria to the Arctic. But what’s the cause?
The northern hemisphere is having a baking summer – and it’s not just down to climate change

Robin McKie

Sun 22 Jul 2018 08.00 BST Last modified on Sun 22 Jul 2018 23.23 BST

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A wildfire in Sweden last week, one of an epidemic that has led authorities to appeal for international help.
Photograph: Mats Andersson/AFP/Getty Images
Last week, authorities in Sweden took an unusual step. They issued an appeal for international aid to help them tackle an epidemic of wildfires that has spread across the nation over the past few days.

After months without rain, followed by weeks of soaring temperatures, the nation’s forests had become tinderboxes.

The result was inevitable. Wildfires broke out and, by the end of last week, more than 50 forest blazes – a dozen inside the Arctic circle – had spread across Sweden.

A nation famous for its cold and snow found itself unable to cope with the conflagrations taking place within its border and so made its appeal for international help, a request that has already been answered by Norway and Italy who have both sent airborne firefighting teams to help battle Sweden’s blazes.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...here-uk-algeria-canada-sweden-whats-the-cause