Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

[dutchie]

Dutchie I notice on this thread that you never, ever, ever offer the smallest shred of evidence for anything you say.

"Climate change is rubbish" " Marxism is the Greatest Threat to the world" so on and so forth. These are simply your grand opinions cast as... whatever.

Asking for any evidence to back up your normal sweeping comments is of course futile. You can't, you won't and you never will.

Fair enough.

 

[rederob]

Okay Rob, as you seen to be both a practicing barrister and a climate scientist, not to mention an omnipotent and omnipresent seer, I am going to suggest to the young lady concerned to sack her activist legal team, who are clearly trying to float a turd, and seek the services of almighty, all seeing and all knowing rederob </sarc>

Rather than add your sarcasm to the issue, try to understand what has been raised by the student instead of brushing it off as "A more ridiculous thing I have never heard."
Most posters here know that financial instruments are required by law to disclose risk.
Added to that APRA — the Australian financial industry regulator — said in 2017 that climate change was not only a "foreseeable" risk, but also "material and actionable now".
In that light, when the Commonwealth sells bonds what allows it to evade the laws it sets for the industry it regulates?

 

[SirRumpole]

Rather than add your sarcasm to the issue, try to understand what has been raised by the student instead of brushing it off as "A more ridiculous thing I have never heard."
Most posters here know that financial instruments are required by law to disclose risk.
Added to that APRA — the Australian financial industry regulator — said in 2017 that climate change was not only a "foreseeable" risk, but also "material and actionable now".
In that light, when the Commonwealth sells bonds what allows it to evade the laws it sets for the industry it regulates?

Governments like Australia never default on bonds, so the risk in holding bonds is essentially zero and there is no need to give information about risks to bondholders.

That's not denying that climate change is real and a risk to the economy but in terms of the court case I don't think that the lady has a leg to stand on.

 

[rederob]

Governments like Australia never default on bonds, so the risk in holding bonds is essentially zero and there is no need to give information about risks to bondholders.

That's not denying that climate change is real and a risk to the economy but in terms of the court case I don't think that the lady has a leg to stand on.

Bonds are tradable instruments, so their value will vary in keeping with the fluidity of money markets.
The fact is that the bond seller does state some risks and the complainant does not regard their disclosure as adequate.
So while the holder of the bond at payment dates gets a guaranteed return, the value of the bond until redemption is variable. The complainant would argue that interim risk to value is not adequately outlined.

 

[wayneL]

Rather than add your sarcasm to the issue, try to understand what has been raised by the student instead of brushing it off as "A more ridiculous thing I have never heard."
Most posters here know that financial instruments are required by law to disclose risk.
Added to that APRA — the Australian financial industry regulator — said in 2017 that climate change was not only a "foreseeable" risk, but also "material and actionable now".
In that light, when the Commonwealth sells bonds what allows it to evade the laws it sets for the industry it regulates?

Sarcasm is more apt, Rob.

 

[explod]

Anyway back on topic:-

"Scientists have for the first time identified an active leak of methane gas from the sea floor in Antarctica, increasing the possibility that the planet is close to one of the "tipping points" that would put the impacts of global heating out of humans' control.

According to The Guardian, researchers led by Andrew Thurber at Oregon State University found the methane leak in a region known as Cinder Cones in McMurdo Sound, within the Ross Sea. The site is 30 feet below the surface of the ocean.

In addition to finding methane dissolved in the water there, the scientists found that microbes which usually consume the gas before it reaches the atmosphere had only formed in small numbers five years after they first began to study the site.

Thurber called the findings "incredibly concerning."

"It is not good news. It took more than five years for the microbes to begin to show up and even then there was still methane rapidly escaping from the sea floor," he told The Guardian. "The methane cycle is absolutely something that we as a society need to be concerned about."

Scientists have warned for years that the climate crisis could lead to the "tipping point" of methane leaks in the sea floor and the thawing of permafrost regions.

"At some point in a warming world, greenhouse gas emissions from nature will go way beyond anything we can control," tweeted Australian immunologist Peter Doherty."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2...kaAv1dc1SVUK3RbwdwErW4v6SsUlvAbZdqPrrJJtVkoUc

 

[Joules MM1]

Zack Labe
@ZLabe
·
14h
*New Record* -- 2020 averaged the lowest #Arctic sea extent in the satellite-era for the month of July. It was 2,190,000 km² below the 1981-2010 average! Data from
@NSIDC
.

 

[explod]

Canada's last fully intact Arctic ice shelf collapses

Moira Warburton
4 Min Read


(Reuters) - The last fully intact ice shelf in the Canadian Arctic has collapsed, losing more than 40% of its area in just two days at the end of July, researchers said on Thursday.



https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ELnktY9XizfRvahu9Cj0jHDCV_sJJnPyRKXpSkSMC_AJg

 

[Joules MM1]

Canada's last fully intact Arctic ice shelf collapses

Moira Warburton
4 Min Read

and a good read: https://www.hakaimagazine.com/news/epishelf-lakes-ecosystem-facing-extinction/
here's a gif of that, @explod

unfortunately this is not topic du jour,

Iraq just had hottest days on record ....pretty soon the virus will be seen as lite relief

 

[SirRumpole]

A reminder that climate change hasn't gone away.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08...ough-california-as-us-wildfires-rage/12565890

 

[Joules MM1]

World Meteorological Organization
@WMO
·
3h

WMO will verify the temperature of 130°F (54.4C) reported at Death Valley, California, on Sunday. This would be the hottest global temperature officially recorded since 1931.

Bob Henson
@bhensonweather
·
15h

The 136F from Al Azizia, Libya, has been tossed. WMO still recognizes 134F (56.7C) from Death Valley (10 July 1913) and 131F (55C) from Kebili, Tunisia (7 July 1931). https://public.wmo.int/en/media/press-release/wmo-verifies-3rd-and-4th-hottest-temperature-recorded-earth… Some experts argue for 129.2F (54C) as the world record. See https://wunderground.com/blog/weatherhistorian/hottest-reliably-measured-air-temperatures-on-earth-part-two.html

 

[SirRumpole]

I got a miserable 4/10 in this quiz.

See how you go.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-08-22/climate-change-quiz/12503436

 

[basilio]

I got a miserable 4/10 in this quiz.

See how you go.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-08-22/climate-change-quiz/12503436

Interesting quiz. The explanation for the answers was the most useful. It certainly increased my knowledge of the issue.

Free cheat..
When did scientists first discover that carbon dioxide was a heat-trapping molecule that could increase the temperature of the Earth's atmosphere?

Yep, we've known about this for a long time. An often-overlooked pioneer of climate science, American scientist Eunice Foote used an air pump, some glass cylinders and some thermometers to figure out that CO2 trapped the Sun's heat back in ...... . Institutionalised sexism prevented her getting the credit though. A few years later, Irish physicist John Tyndall published similar findings and until recently has been considered the founder of climate science.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2020-08-22/climate-change-quiz/12503436

 

[basilio]

Had to check out Eunice Foote after discovering she was in fact the first person to discover CO2 was a heat trapping gas.
Fascinating person in a time that largely didn't see women as capable as men.

Eunice Foote, John Tyndall and a question of priority
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsnr.2018.0066

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eunice_Newton_Foote

 

[basilio]

Back to what happens when extra Greenhouse Gases are trapped in the atmosphere and increase temperatures far beyond recent levels.

Earth has lost 28 trillion tonnes of ice in less than 30 years
‘Stunned’ scientists say there is little doubt global heating is to blame for the loss

A total of 28 trillion tonnes of ice have disappeared from the surface of the Earth since 1994. That is stunning conclusion of UK scientists who have analysed satellite surveys of the planet’s poles, mountains and glaciers to measure how much ice coverage lost because of global heating triggered by rising greenhouse gas emissions.

The scientists – based at Leeds and Edinburgh universities and University College London – describe the level of ice loss as “staggering” and warn that their analysis indicates that sea level rises, triggered by melting glaciers and ice sheets, could reach a metre by the end of the century.

“To put that in context, every centimetre of sea level rise means about a million people will be displaced from their low-lying homelands,” said Professor Andy Shepherd, director of Leeds University’s Centre for Polar Observation and Modelling.

The scientists also warn that the melting of ice in these quantities is now seriously reducing the planet’s ability to reflect solar radiation back into space. White ice is disappearing and the dark sea or soil exposed beneath it is absorbing more and more heat, further increasing the warming of the planet.

In addition, cold fresh water pouring from melting glaciers and ice sheets is causing major disruptions to the biological health of Arctic and Antarctic waters, while loss of glaciers in mountain ranges threatens to wipe out sources of fresh water on which local communities depend.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...8-trillion-tonnes-ice-30-years-global-warming

 

[SirRumpole]

Can we geo-engineer our way out of climate change ?

Interesting prospects.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08...ial-science-to-combat-climate-change/12588828

 

[basilio]

CC is not going away. The current mega fires in the US (we had our first lot 9 months ago..), the record temperatures, the rapidly melting ice shelves aren't turning a corner.

Tim Flannery has written an essay pulling together the causes threats and responses to COVID 19 and CC.


Fire, Flood and Plague – essays about 2020
The megafires and pandemic expose the lies that frustrate action on climate change

If there was a moment of true emergency in the fight to preserve our climate, it is now

...three catastrophes would strike Australia in quick succession: the unprecedented, climate-fuelled megafires that were extinguished in February by damaging, climate-influenced floods. Then, in March, the Covid-19 pandemic that began to spread across Australia.

These three catastrophes are proof that things that travel invisibly through the great aerial ocean that is our atmosphere are a particular danger to our complex, global civilisation. The carbon dioxide molecule that accumulates imperceptibly as we burn fossil fuels causes an increase in average global temperature, which triggered the profoundly disruptive droughts, floods and fires that plagued Australia over the past year. But the coronavirus also travels unseen through the great aerial ocean, insinuating itself in lung after lung, killing person after person, until it threatens our health system, economy and society.

There are many differences between climate change and the Covid-19 pandemic but, from the perspective of prevention, there are also many similarities. Perhaps the most important is that both have “incubation periods” during which the problem grows, undetected, except by the experts. Throughout this period, things can seem relatively normal but, unless a sense of urgency leads to decisive action at this time, catastrophe becomes inevitable.

The actions required to contain both a pandemic and climate change are also broadly similar, and involve three steps. The first and most urgent is to stop the threat from growing. For Covid-19, that involved introducing social distancing, closing schools and halting entire industries. For climate change it means dramatically cutting the use of fossil fuels. The second step involves ensuring that we can save as many of the stricken as possible. For Covid-19, that meant preparing emergency wards and other treatment facilities. For climate change it means instituting measures to deal with a sweeping variety of issues, including future megafires, the threat to the Great Barrier Reef, and vulnerable coasts. The third step involves finding a permanent fix. For Covid-19, that means the development of a vaccine, while for climate change it involves removing the excess CO2 from the atmosphere.

The megafires and pandemic expose the lies that frustrate action on climate change | Tim Flannery

If there was a moment of true emergency in the fight to preserve our climate, it is now

www.theguardian.com

 

[basilio]

At what stage does the world acknowledge that most coastal cities will be nonviable by the end of this century ? And what does that mean for "everything" ? This bleak analysis is predicated on actually achieving the Paris climate goals

Melting Antarctic ice will raise sea level by 2.5 metres – even if Paris climate goals are met, study finds
Research says melting will continue even if temperature rises are limited to 2C

Melting of the Antarctic ice sheet will cause sea level rises of about two and a half metres around the world, even if the goals of the Paris agreement are met, research has shown.

The melting is likely to take place over a long period, beyond the end of this century, but is almost certain to be irreversible, because of the way in which the ice cap is likely to melt, the new model reveals.

Even if temperatures were to fall again after rising by 2C (3.6F), the temperature limit set out in the Paris agreement, the ice would not regrow to its initial state, because of self-reinforcing mechanisms that destabilise the ice, according to the paper published in the journal Nature.

Melting Antarctic ice will raise sea level by 2.5 metres – even if Paris climate goals are met, study finds

Research says melting will continue even if temperature rises are limited to 2C

www.theguardian.com

 

[basilio]

This is a critical story.
Alarm as Arctic sea ice not yet freezing at latest date on record
Delayed freeze in Laptev Sea could have knock-on effects across polar region, scientists say

Jonathan Watts Global environment editor
@jonathanwatts
Thu 22 Oct 2020 06.26 EDT Last modified on Thu 22 Oct 2020 15.19 ED


Shares
2,938


Climate change is pushing warmer Atlantic currents into the Arctic and breaking up the usual stratification between warm deep waters and the cool surface. This also makes it difficult for ice to form. Photograph: Alamy Stock Photo

For the first time since records began, the main nursery of Arctic sea ice in Siberia has yet to start freezing in late October.

The delayed annual freeze in the Laptev Sea has been caused by freakishly protracted warmth in northern Russia and the intrusion of Atlantic waters, say climate scientists who warn of possible knock-on effects across the polar region.

Ocean temperatures in the area recently climbed to more than 5C above average, following a record breaking heatwave and the unusually early decline of last winter’s sea ice.

The trapped heat takes a long time to dissipate into the atmosphere, even at this time of the year when the sun creeps above the horizon for little more than an hour or two each day.

Graphs of sea-ice extent in the Laptev Sea, which usually show a healthy seasonal pulse, appear to have flat-lined. As a result, there is a record amount of open sea in the Arctic.

Alarm as Arctic sea ice not yet freezing at latest date on record

Delayed freeze in Laptev Sea could have knock-on effects across polar region, scientists say

www.theguardian.com

 

[basilio]

What is the impact t of China on Global Heating and, conversely, what will be the effect of Global Heating on China ?
What will be the impacts of both these events on China's neighbourbours ?

Long but excellent analysis. Check out the graphs on Chinas contribution to CO2 emissions since 2000 ( basically being the manufacturing centre for much of the worlds industrial production..)

China's Communist Party knows how to quell a restive population — but what about its environment?


It's often said that China's rise will present one of the world's greatest security challenges this century.

Key points:

• Water scarcity is one of the country's most-pressing environmental concerns
• Experts say environmental threats act as a "threat multiplier" on existing tensions
• They say China's carbon neutral pledge could also be seen as a play to take a leadership role

While China has promised the world a peaceful rise, its "wolf warrior diplomacy", fast-growing military, and territorial claim to most of the South China Sea despite having no legal basis, suggest otherwise.

But there's another, less understood consequence of China's rise — and that's to do with the enormous scale of its emissions.

Richard Smith, an author and US-based expert in Chinese history and economics, said China's rising emissions — constituting nearly a third of the global total — poses "the single biggest threat to life on Earth".

"What's uniquely dangerous about the Chinese case is that its emissions are … growing so fast that scientists tell us they could eventually doom the climate on their own regardless of what the rest of the world does," Mr Smith wrote in Foreign Policy magazine.

China's running dry, and that could spell danger for the ruling Communist Party

China has pledged to become carbon-neutral by 2060, responding to the need to drastically bring down its overwhelming share of global carbon emissions. Experts say it's also critical for the communist party's survival.

www.abc.net.au