Is Global Warming becoming unstoppable?

[cynic]

The overwhelming abundance of, well suited, material, leaves little doubt that this competition will also be hotly contested:

https://www.thegwpf.com/lies-damn-lies-and-tall-climate-tales/

 

[Smurf1976]

The Liberal Party offering a rationale and practical policies to tackle Climate Change ?
This young leader sets out an excellent analysis of the situation and ways to tackle the problem.

My thinking at this point is that, noting the fires, now's the time for action and to remove politics from the issue.

A deal needs to be done between Liberal and Labor to de-politicise the issue. Bonus if the Greens agreed to it too.

It might cost someone a future election win but it needs to happen. Agree to come up with and implement an agreed plan of action and that the issue won't be a point of difference at a future election campaign since the other side has exactly the same policy.

There are precedents with other things, big developments and road safety policies come to mind, so it could be done.

Let's face it neither side is actually winning out of all this. Short term they might but not if you look back over the past decade or three, the issue hasn't really gained any party much politically overall. Labor and Liberal have been in and out and shuffling leaders, the Greens aren't in government, etc. No winners so it's time to drop the politics and hand the issue to science and experts.

 

[dutchie]

My thinking at this point is that, noting the fires, now's the time for action and to remove politics from the issue.

A deal needs to be done between Liberal and Labor to de-politicise the issue. Bonus if the Greens agreed to it too.

It might cost someone a future election win but it needs to happen. Agree to come up with and implement an agreed plan of action and that the issue won't be a point of difference at a future election campaign since the other side has exactly the same policy.

There are precedents with other things, big developments and road safety policies come to mind, so it could be done.

Let's face it neither side is actually winning out of all this. Short term they might but not if you look back over the past decade or three, the issue hasn't really gained any party much politically overall. Labor and Liberal have been in and out and shuffling leaders, the Greens aren't in government, etc. No winners so it's time to drop the politics and hand the issue to science and experts.

I agree mostly but what if the so called science experts are also corrupt.

 

[rederob]

I agree mostly but what if the so called science experts are also corrupt.

Oh, did Elvis ask you to post that from his dugout in Area 51 where they faked the moon landing?

 

[Knobby22]

Time for some more facts, please read, its from Sky news. 4 degrees country wide is a lot.

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6119233961001

 

[rederob]

Time for some more facts.

A slightly improved version for readers is here.

 

[dutchie]

Oh, did Elvis ask you to post that from his dugout in Area 51 where they faked the moon landing?

Lol. Your a very funny man rederob.

 

[dutchie]

 

[kahuna1]

In response to an illogical opinion with .... well no research and poor understanding of even basic geography ...

There are places in Australia which have been flooded to the point of causing significant damage

Did you know the floods 2019 in Northern Queensland were and ARE 2,581 km from say Orbost Vic fires ?

Are you aware say Wellington NZ is a mere 2,300 km away ? Or Lord Howe Island is 1,230 Km away from the Victorian fires and that's HALF the distance to the even your alluding to ?

All this is extremely different if you look at the data for each individual week or day

Your kidding ? I provided NOT average rainfall maps but ANOMALIES maps ... a difference ..., an area that received 50% of the rainfall over 3 years .... and your still suggesting I look at weeklies.

I am so glad your not a fire warden and clearly have no farming experience and not well traveled

I picked a couple of cities because comprehensive data and media coverage exists more than it does in the bush so my claims can be verified by anyone who wishes to

Really ... people outside the city are stupid ? the Bureau or Meteorology ... BOM ... only operates or works in your city ? If I was to suggest people from say Tasmania are ALL stupid ... which of course has the same percent of imbeciles as any other region, its just as valid.
.

Now there might be some places where literally no wet period occurred but that isn't the majority.

Must be some other MAP ... or planet you exist upon. Look closely at the map at the end .... correlation between current fires and burnt regions and the RED areas of lowest rain for 3 years ON RECORD.

Source data BOM maps .... if it rains for a day or even a week ... but its 50% of the 3 year total is a very deep and dire drought. Look at the brown area on the map and get back ... or I will find you a better one for climate skeptics to understand in a sec.

Just because you're in a drought doesn't mean you can't have flash flooding or that smaller dams can't fill and spill.

Really ... do you belong to some cult ? Are you really lacking comprehension that a 3 year ANOMALY rainfall map of Australia as provided ... showing vast areas of Brown and that's 50% of regular rain and your talking gibberish about flash flooding and some MAGICAL ability to conduct even if that were true ... conduct a controlled burn during a flash flood.

What religion ? Seriously ..... your kidding ?

Or to highlight the problem with 3 yearly data I could point out

You did .... and well ... NSW fire chief and Victorian one have had extensive talks. They have been attacked by the usual suspects.

Both pointed out the above .... rainfall maps ... lack of burn-off opportunities.
Both are the experts as is BOM .... on weather and rainfall and humidity.

In 2018 burn-off season ... both quoted serious fires OUT of control during the traditional safe hazard reduction period. One ... Yankees Gap for example it took 44 days to even GET IT UNDER CONTROL ... and here we have someone actually suggesting some safe window was missed ?

https://aboutregional.com.au/yankees-gap-fire-contained-and-under-control-on-day-44/

It actually took over 90 days for all of it to be put out .... and it started In July .... 2018 .

2019 had record high temps and low rainfall and low humidity ... so to suggest there was some missed window ? Stuff me !!

Now to have stupidity quashed is not possible.

Here is a clear picture. BOM .... map of LOWEST 3 year total rainfall EVER areas of Australia.

RAINFALL DEFICIENCIES.

lowest on record ....

Whilst this thread is about the Victorian Bush-fires which are much smaller than the NSW ones ... to have it suggested, even jokingly that one missed a period to do burn-offs in the most effected areas is at best some delusional departure from reality.

LOWEST on record EVER ... whilst a mere 130 to 150 year period depending on the actual region when its rains at 50% or less over an extended period its not good.

Look closely at the map at the end .... correlation between current fires and burnt regions and the RED areas of lowest rain for 3 years ON RECORD.

I am not going to even bother suggesting ultra dry ... ultra hot and low humidity are issues because they were already ignored for some religious flooding that never occurred.

Never occurred because .... how can one have flooding when 3 year rain totals are lowest ever on record and some of them go back to 1830 .... close to 200 years all go back to 1900 .... a lot to 1870 ...

Hail ... my favorite deity and its a flood without rain !!

 

[Knobby22]

View attachment 99447

Hey Dutchie.

Fire reduction burning was done, particularly in Victoria. Everyone knew it was going to be bad. Victoria has been through this before and fire reduction is taken very seriously.
(Less so in NSW due to cutbacks in funding by state government).

No one however thought the heat would so high above the norm breaking many records and that rainfall would be substantially below any year in measured history even the drought years! And it's not even an El Nino year!

If you look at the second link posted by Rederob it is quite shocking.

 

[Smurf1976]

Did you know the floods 2019 in Northern Queensland were and ARE 2,581 km from say Orbost Vic fires ?

Indeed the floods in Northern Qld are quite some distance from the fires in Victoria.

The floods in north-eastern Victoria were however rather close to the area now on fire which also received substantial rain.

Your kidding ? I provided NOT average rainfall maps but ANOMALIES maps ... a difference ..., an area that received 50% of the rainfall over 3 years .... and your still suggesting I look at weeklies.

Indeed I am for the simple reason that you’ve failed to notice the flooding or at least periods of rain and high humidity which occurred amidst the drought.

Same as the market generally doesn’t go straight up or down.

I am so glad your not a fire warden and clearly have no farming experience and not well traveled

I’m no farmer but I could tell you tather a lot about rainfall, runoff, wetting up catchments (the relevant point here) and so on.

Wetting up a catchment needs rain certainly but reaching saturation doesn’t require the complete erasure of past deficits. It’s entirely possible to have the ground saturated for a period during an overall drought cycle and for that matter it’s not unknown that small and even medium sized water storages fill and spill during a drought. It’s only the large ones that you can confidently say won’t fill until the drought ends.

In the context of burning off, suffice to say that if a catchment’s saturated then no chance the vegetation won’t be reasonably damp given the rain its it first.

As for travel, well I haven’t been to every place in the whole country but I’m familiar with quite a bit of the areas that are on fire in NSW and Vic yes. Been bushwalking in some of it and have at least driven through and been to towns etc in much of the rest.

Really ... people outside the city are stupid ? the Bureau or Meteorology ... BOM ... only operates or works in your city ?

Nobody’s suggested that.

Fact is however that media reporting of events in cities is substantially greater than elsewhere such that it’s easier to find archived reports of things which occur there.

In that context parts of Sydney, Melbourne and Hobart have all been flooded during the drought. Same with many other places but you’ll find more media coverage of the cities so it’s easier for someone to verify.

Source data BOM maps .... if it rains for a day or even a week ... but its 50% of the 3 year total is a very deep and dire drought.

If you’ve had a week of rain then the problem will be getting the fire lit not trying to contain it. Some point not long after that, when it’s no longer saturated but still reasonably moist, is the opportunity to burn.

Hence why real experts did indeed go ahead and do burns during the drought. They’d have done considerably more if given adequate resources and removal of red tape which is my point.

In Victoria there was one planned burn that was downsized by more than 97% due to protesters making a fuss. That was 2019 and the authorities carried out the remaining trivial amount satisfactorily but yep, you guessed it, the rest has now gone up in smoke in a far more dramatic manner given this is in East Gippsland.

Stop that sort of nonsense wasting of opportunity when it does arise and it would have helped the current situation that’s a certainty.

That there’s so much politics surrounding this is ultimately all about the various sides trying to cover their rear end.

Liberals will be happy to talk about anything as long as it’s not the reduced funding for fire fighting, the PM’s lack of interest in the subject or climate change.

Greens will be happy to talk about anything so long as it’s not protesters like the incident I referred to or red tape stopping the removal of hazards by wasting time and money until there’s none left.

Labor will be happy to talk about anything so long as, in the case of Victoria where they’re in government, it doesn’t involve mentioning that a state government department caved into a few protesters rather than doing what they knew needed to be done or that the recommendations following the Black Saturday fires still haven’t been properly implemented.

All sides of politics are guilty to varying degrees and all will simply divert discussion to something they’re on safer ground with.

 

[kahuna1]

wow ...

I am astounded that say floods ... near Albury are something to do with Orbost ... 418 km away let alone Malacoota ...

If you’ve had a week of rain then the problem will be getting the fire lit not trying to contain it. Some point not long after that, when it’s no longer saturated but still reasonably moist, is the opportunity to burn.

Quite clearly ... NO single area enjoyed a week of rain. Yep there was flash flooding one region ... that well ... your kidding with your logic or lack of it.

Detailed rainfall map of Victoria and deficiency ...

Yet again dribble Smurf ... delusional idiotic dribble ... the floods via a flash rain event are the WHITE circle ... in the North East of the state around Albury ... which according to VIc fire is NOT on fire ....

the Bright RED on the right of the map is the area ON FIRE ... right now.

Maybe a map would help ? Or possibly its beyond that ? For you ?


the rest, well I will leave it to the new experts.

Take care

 

[moXJO]

wow ...

I am astounded that say floods ... near Albury are something to do with Orbost ... 418 km away let alone Malacoota ...



Quite clearly ... NO single area enjoyed a week of rain. Yep there was flash flooding one region ... that well ... your kidding with your logic or lack of it.

the rest, well I will leave it to the new experts.

Take care

Time for a nap under your "I love Khamenei" blanket.

Guys with your thinking are the reason things get so bad....

Smurf is right suck it up.

 

[kahuna1]

Tee hee ...

Non farmer lecturing a farmer about rain ... and his hop-along imbecile mate.

Yipee

15% of the population has an IQ under 85. Another 5% elderly suffer serious declines. Another 5% have serious mental issues.

Hello Mxjo ... and the expert in everything just like Trump ... expert in well everything ... building walls, nuclear power, solar ,., wind-farms ...

I quoted source data .. gave links ..even pictures .. and got back ... drivel and opinions based upon mythical floods in the Orbost and Malacoota regions ..

 

[Smurf1976]

I am astounded that say floods ... near Albury are something to do with Orbost ... 418 km away let alone Malacoota ...



Quite clearly ... NO single area enjoyed a week of rain. Yep there was flash flooding one region .

If you thinkg Albury, Gippsland and Melbourne are all the same region well that’s an interesting definition of a region.

As for the issue of burning off, if you think there were no suitable conditions then you’d better tell those who found suitable conditions and actually burned off (or tried to in the case of the one stopped by protesters).

Are you suggesting that professionals in the relevant national parks, fire etc authorities in Victoria were mistaken and that what they thought was cool and damp was actually hot and dry?

Better let them know that they don’t know what they’re doing then.

 

[IFocus]

Hey Dutchie.

Fire reduction burning was done, particularly in Victoria. Everyone knew it was going to be bad. Victoria has been through this before and fire reduction is taken very seriously.
(Less so in NSW due to cutbacks in funding by state government).

No one however thought the heat would so high above the norm breaking many records and that rainfall would be substantially below any year in measured history even the drought years! And it's not even an El Nino year!

If you look at the second link posted by Rederob it is quite shocking.

Canberra today 43.4 degrees 8% humidity WTF

 

[moXJO]

Tee hee ...

Non farmer lecturing a farmer about rain ... and his hop-along imbecile mate.

Yipee

15% of the population has an IQ under 85. Another 5% elderly suffer serious declines. Another 5% have serious mental issues.

Hello Mxjo ... and the expert in everything just like Trump ... expert in well everything ... building walls, nuclear power, solar ,., wind-farms ...

I quoted source data .. gave links ..even pictures .. and got back ... drivel and opinions based upon mythical floods in the Orbost and Malacoota regions ..

You quoted crap that wasn't relevant.
Nice to know that TDS translates to absolute delusion in all areas of life.

Perhaps this is a safer moisture map to use when trying to conflate an argument in the future....

 

[kahuna1]

You quoted crap that wasn't relevant.
Nice to know that TDS translates to absolute delusion in all areas of life.

I posted rainfall anomaly and total maps ..
I shared humidity and temperature maps ...

And its not relevant ?
Or its not relevant to your dialogue ? Ideology ?

Or is it you just dont understand ? .... science or ,,, well I cant ask due to the displayed Dunning Kruger effect clearly you demonstrate.

Not relevant ... rain ... or temperature ... or humidity. LMFAO

You win the Trump/SCOMO prize for 2020 ... NDIS assistance for your issues.

 

[IFocus]

Penrith 48.9°, nothing to see here move along please.

 

[kahuna1]

Are you suggesting that professionals in the relevant national parks, fire etc authorities in Victoria were mistaken and that what they thought was cool and damp was actually hot and dry?

Have you taken your pills ? I merely ... showed rainfall and humidity and temperature charts ... destroying your pet ... non science based theory and you wet your pants. Because you think they didn't burn off when they had the chance !!

Are you and Mxjo related ? or in the same institution ?

This thread is about climate change being unstoppable ... not for the elderly and 3% who like to believe its all fake.

Sadly with dementia people often get lost. Suggest you go on the climate deniers thread and swap .... fluids and ideas.