International markets traders banter

[avion]

Too much trading. If you told yourself you only had 5 trades per morning sess how would you trade it? For a start you wouldn't go chasing moves. You would take trades based on expected range and anticipate that you'll be in trades for some time while managing your trailing stops until it extends and builds a decent R:R.

What have you become TH!?! For somebody who used to bang out 300-400 trades per day advocating that 21 trades is too much..!!! I can't recognize you man, what happened....

Must be that institutional size you are trading with!! Another step in the evolution of a trader...

 

[Joules MM1]

starting from today I'm trying to get back to basics t.

what was the prep work for the session, Sam ?

was a gentle down day easy valleys....those chops you sold, i've seen several guns trade those moves that kept going and going and get beaten the whole day long only because they werent doing any prep work.....what is the context of the trade set-up and the relative size is the content of prep-work, (for me, anyways)

i think it's important to find what works for you, for sure....

edit: for the sake of blah blah, i did trade the hsi today, 4 x 5 sell to open, 3 x 5 close take profit (buy to close; 2 at market and one take profit close) and one broken into 5 parcels....no draw-downs, wasted time .......

edit 2 : the point is, imho, anyone who tells how to trade is only telling half the story and only from their own perspective and at that point in their own trading game.....

 

[avion]

Main problem I feel I had today was when I had a runner going I was trying to concentrate on my stop loss, and when to move it, I moved it once I got to 1R so I locked that in, then 2R and so on, but not sure when to take it off and move it, say I'm up over 2R and it's hovering around 3R, do I move it there as soon as its beyond it, but that would be at risk of getting taken out straight away and I could potentitally miss a 4 or 5R winner?

1m chart.

Sam, i thought you would know this one... multuple contracts! Even if it's just two, close one let the other one run... Or am i missing something?

 

[boofis]

I know its only one session but might as well get stuck in and find out what I can improve from the get-go. Main problem I feel I had today was when I had a runner going I was trying to concentrate on my stop loss, and when to move it, I moved it once I got to 1R so I locked that in, then 2R and so on, but not sure when to take it off and move it, say I'm up over 2R and it's hovering around 3R, do I move it there as soon as its beyond it, but that would be at risk of getting taken out straight away and I could potentitally miss a 4 or 5R winner?

If you're trying to catch longer moves you will nearly always give back some unsecured profit, if you're just catching smaller moves then you'll nearly always leave some profit on the table.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

what was the prep work for the session, Sam ?

was a gentle down day easy valleys....those chops you sold, i've seen several guns trade those moves that kept going and going and get beaten the whole day long only because they werent doing any prep work.....what is the context of the trade set-up and the relative size is the content of prep-work, (for me, anyways)

i think it's important to find what works for you, for sure....

edit: for the sake of blah blah, i did trade the hsi today, 4 x 5 sell to open, 3 x 5 close take profit (buy to close; 2 at market and one take profit close) and one broken into 5 parcels....no draw-downs, wasted time .......

edit 2 : the point is, imho, anyone who tells how to trade is only telling half the story and only from their own perspective and at that point in their own trading game.....

No prep work, what's the point when the outcome is random? I've done prep work before and to be honest I have no idea what to do, come up with scenarios? expected range? Did that, then didn't even look at it the whole time I was trading, just forgot about it completely pretty much, if it doesn't get implemented into the trades, then why bother? Besides, what happens when its wrong? Say you have multiple scenarios played out and it's half of one and the second half of another one you drew/thought up, you might chase the first one for the rest of the day because that was playing out....until it didn't.

Sam, i thought you would know this one... multuple contracts! Even if it's just two, close one let the other one run... Or am i missing something?

Yeah agreed obviously its easier with multiple contracts, but adding size shouldn't be a solution to a problem just because it makes it easier, I'm trying to find the best way to ride those runners....

If you're trying to catch longer moves you will nearly always give back some unsecured profit, if you're just catching smaller moves then you'll nearly always leave some profit on the table.

....and this is the answer.

 

[Trembling Hand]

No prep work, what's the point when the outcome is random? I've done prep work before and to be honest I have no idea what to do, come up with scenarios? expected range? Did that, then didn't even look at it the whole time I was trading, just forgot about it completely pretty much, if it doesn't get implemented into the trades, then why bother? Besides, what happens when its wrong? Say you have multiple scenarios played out and it's half of one and the second half of another one you drew/thought up, you might chase the first one for the rest of the day because that was playing out....until it didn't.

Man if you cannot work out a basic play book for the day and how its actually going to look as the chart progresses then you actually haven't got anything to trade.

You are just throwing random orders around reacting to noise. I guess it can work that way but its a very thin idea.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

Man if you cannot work out a basic play book for the day and how its actually going to look as the chart progresses then you actually haven't got anything to trade.

You are just throwing random orders around reacting to noise. I guess it can work that way but its a very thin idea.

How do you begin to have an idea on what kind of day it's going to be though? Open to ideas/suggestions, hence why I'm here.

It's not like I have no idea how to read the market, I don't see any advantage in having an expectation laying in front of me(that will most likely be completely wrong) vs reading it as it happens where I've seen it before, can get a good idea/feel when it's going to take off or come back etc. But I'm more than likely all wrong about this, because it hasn't seemed to work in the past obviously, I've never really done longer term stuff, longer term being 15 minutes out to a whole day/session, hence why I need help. I've pretty much just done scalping, which seems for the most part to be dead nowdays.

 

[boofis]

First part of my prep before a session consists of running through a monthly/weekly/daily chart to see if we're near any significant s/r levels for longer term players to be making moves. If so, keep it in mind approaching those levels when watching the action.
Also, what makes you say that scalping is dead :S?

 

[Joules MM1]

No prep work, what's the point when the outcome is random? .

i see

 

[Trembling Hand]

Hey boofis you know your pic isn't showing up?

What do you see?

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

First part of my prep before a session consists of running through a monthly/weekly/daily chart to see if we're near any significant s/r levels for longer term players to be making moves. If so, keep it in mind approaching those levels when watching the action.
Also, what makes you say that scalping is dead :S?

Yeah well how long does that take? Is that really "prep"? That's just keeping an eye on S/R levels, I have 60m/daily up anyway so I can see if its coming to or near a big level on the fly, I can't see how writing that down in a plan in the morning will help me?

and because I've tried it, had no success and everyone I know that used to be a scalper, is no longer a scalper, sure it might be ok when the conditions suit, but not all the time I don't think.

i see

Elaborate? What "prep" work do you do? As I've said, let me know what sort of stuff is "prep" work, I might be looking at it the wrong way, I'm used to scalping and thinking in the now, reading what is happening now because I figured some big dick can come in and blow any prep or plans or expectations I had out of the water at any moment if the business needs to be done now.

 

[Joules MM1]

?

 

[Trembling Hand]

Huh?

 

[Joules MM1]

Elaborate? What "prep" work do you do? As I've said, let me know what sort of stuff is "prep" work, I might be looking at it the wrong way, I'm used to scalping and thinking in the now, reading what is happening now because I figured some big dick can come in and blow any prep or plans or expectations I had out of the water at any moment if the business needs to be done now.

i wrote a long-winded post....i'll send it.....it's patronising, so pulled it before the expiry time......lulz

my prep work is also long winded and i aint giving it away.....also nuances of different plays, diff tiers of plays, i dont think, can be just put into text.....

as for any dick can come and blow thru, well, yeah, but again, depends youre play, not just theirs, how you frame the game youre in.....you can't beat supply and demand so everything is relative to the game youre running and how you read the guy on the other side of your trade.......

 

[boofis]

Yeah well how long does that take? Is that really "prep"? That's just keeping an eye on S/R levels, I have 60m/daily up anyway so I can see if its coming to or near a big level on the fly, I can't see how writing that down in a plan in the morning will help me?

and because I've tried it, had no success and everyone I know that used to be a scalper, is no longer a scalper, sure it might be ok when the conditions suit, but not all the time I don't think. .

Not having a crack at you, but it seems that at present you're a bit frustrated and it may appear as though nothings working etc. so that's prob something to look at imo before trading again.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

i wrote a long-winded post....i'll send it.....it's patronising, so pulled it before the expiry time......lulz

my prep work is also long winded and i aint giving it away.....also nuances of different plays, diff tiers of plays, i dont think, can be just put into text.....

as for any dick can come and blow thru, well, yeah, but again, depends youre play, not just theirs, how you frame the game youre in.....you can't beat supply and demand so everything is relative to the game youre running and how you read the guy on the other side of your trade.......

Okay

 

[Joules MM1]

How do you begin

maybe propex is the go, Sam

 

[Trembling Hand]

Just posting this in here for you big boyz,

I like these loser threads because they get the closest to the right approach.

Risk by its very definition is being exposed to a possible negative outcome.

You can’t be successful if you don’t take on risk.

You can only do two things to control risk.

1) Take risk on when it’s priced favourably. (according to your strategy)

2) Managing the negative outcomes.

Do these two things and you will have a positive expectancy - All that remains is to be exposed to risk for long enough for any negative randomness to be overcome by your expectancy and you have a plan to win.

Lots of people talk about an edge but I suspect some don’t actually understand what it is – Its whatever address 1) above. Generally there’s not much to do with an edge after you have worked yours out except, scan/wait until your criteria is met, and then take a position.

After nailing down 1) The real work of being in the market is 2) managing negative outcomes (the positive takes care of itself) and that means being immersed in your mistakes. I know personally that I spend so much time concentrating on managing negative outcomes that it generally comes some what as a shock when the big picture is tallied up – all of which that leads me to the clip below which sums it all up for me.

 

[ThingyMajiggy]

maybe propex is the go, Sam

Been there done that. No comment.

As you were, this is going away from trading and becoming about me, I'll stop asking for help.

 

[avion]

As you were, this is going away from trading and becoming about me, I'll stop asking for help.

Because the real answer is YOU Sam and you probably know this... The rest of the traders here are just a mirror for your ideas that clarify it a bit hopefully and bounce it back to you which is totally valid thing to do. And in this case most fingers are pointing at you. All the best with your trading, keep us posted...