Inflation

[Value Collector]

but a multi-year uni/TAFE course , c'mon those with talent are obvious by the time they leave primary school , at worst all you have to do is instruct on the mediums used and on-line videos ( not paid subscriptions ) can supply that

If you didn’t need art schools, why would Walt Disney send all his artists back to art school to keep growing their talents?

I mean we aren’t talking about hobby painters, we are talking about training people to be employed in the artistic industries, which are multi billion dollar industries.

https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/polling-gov-support-for-arts-industry-popular-and-necessary/

 

[SirRumpole]

If you didn’t need art schools, why would Walt Disney send all his artists back to art school to keep growing their talents?

I mean we aren’t talking about hobby painters, we are talking about training people to be employed in the artistic industries, which are multi billion dollar industries.

https://australiainstitute.org.au/post/polling-gov-support-for-arts-industry-popular-and-necessary/

View attachment 168443

If the Arts are doing so well why do they need government support?

 

[Value Collector]

If the Arts are doing so well why do they need government support?

i am not sure what you mean, which government support are you talking about? Are you talking about the article I linked? That was during Covid-19 in 2020

but the government supports and invests in all sorts of industries that are profitable and productive, for example the government might offer subsidies and incentives to open new coal mines, renewable energy, wheat farming etc with the idea that it will benefit by increasing employment and earning royalties.

 

[JohnDe]

If the Arts are doing so well why do they need government support?

To learn how to scam.

Former Aboriginal art centre boss jailed for ripping off artists​

​

The Mornington Island Art Centre is operated by the Mirndiyan Gununa Aboriginal Corporation and provides facilities and materials (such as paint and cavasses) to Aboriginal artists on Mornington Island to create artistic work. The Art Centre then assists the artists to sell their artwork and the sale proceeds are divided between the Art Centre and the artist.​

APY Aboriginal art centre denies any wrongdoing over claims white staff interfere with Indigenous paintings​

Respected authorities on Indigenous art say claims that white staff at a major art centre are interfering with Aboriginal artists' paintings are "distressing", and that it is "wrong" for non-Indigenous people to be adding their own touches to artworks.

 

[SirRumpole]

i am not sure what you mean, which government support are you talking about? Are you talking about the article I linked? That was during Covid-19 in 2020

https://www.arts.gov.au/news/2023-24-federal-budget-revitalise-arts-sector

 

[Value Collector]

https://www.arts.gov.au/news/2023-24-federal-budget-revitalise-arts-sector

Yeah as I said they support all sorts of industries, but the government spending $200 Million a year to help grow and promote a $15 Billion per year arts industry seems pretty smart to me.

it’s about inline with the support given to tourism, and is dwarfed by the $15 Billion support given to renewable energy.

 

[JohnDe]

https://www.arts.gov.au/news/2023-24-federal-budget-revitalise-arts-sector

Buying votes.

 

[Belli]

Yeah as I said they support all sorts of industries, but the government spending $200 Million a year to help grow and promote a $15 Billion per year arts industry seems pretty smart to me.

A shrivelled soulless lot we have here, eh, @Value Collector

I for one appreciate that support as I have numerous pieces by Australian artists. Some of those works cost me a five figure sum and others less than $500. Some I considered required framing. All of my outgoings went to those artists, and those in associated industries, and who more than likely....

............wait for it.................

spent it buying food, housing, paying debts, etc. Much like most of us do.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yeah as I said they support all sorts of industries, but the government spending $200 Million a year to help grow and promote a $15 Billion per year arts industry seems pretty smart to me.

it’s about inline with the support given to tourism, and is dwarfed by the $15 Billion support given to renewable energy.

View attachment 168445View attachment 168444

I wouldn't be equating Arts with essential services like energy.

 

[Belli]

I wouldn't be equating Arts with essential services like energy.

Yeah, you're right.

Better recycle all of those books with the works of Shakespeare, Milton, Wordsworth, Mark Twain and all the other stupid gits into something more useful. May as well torch those paintings by Constable too. Useless things just taking up space on a wall. And that statue of David! Surely we can use it to make a kitchen bench.

 

[SirRumpole]

Yeah, you're right.

Better recycle all of those books with the works of Shakespeare, Milton, Wordsworth, Mark Twain and all the other stupid gits into something more useful. May as well torch those paintings by Constable too. Useless things just taking up space on a wall. And that statue of David! Surely we can use it to make a kitchen bench.

Oh please. I'm not saying art isn't useful for some things but there are priorities to government spending.

You are welcome to pay whatever you want for what you call art, as am I, just dont expect everyone else to pay for your particular "tastes".

 

[JohnDe]

Oh please. I'm not saying art isn't useful for some things but there are priorities to government spending.

You are welcome to pay whatever you want for what you call art, as am I, just dont expect everyone else to pay for your particular "tastes".

For me, art should always come from the heart not the wallet. Art is an integral part of life and society, political power can influence art with money but it cannot and should not control it. And in there lies the problem, because almost all political influence have an underlying motive to influence people.

“Art is an expression of our thoughts, emotions, intuitions, and desires, but it is even more personal than that: it's about sharing the way we experience the world, which for many is an extension of personality. It is the communication of intimate concepts that cannot be faithfully portrayed by words alone.”​

 

[qldfrog]

True to a point, but many of the jobs in shortage require a degree, eg doctors, engineers etc etc.

we seem to have way to many realestate agents though.

Because RE agents make more money than engineers for less work
Market laws..

 

[Value Collector]

I wouldn't be equating Arts with essential services like energy.

That’s why energy got $15 Billion of subsidies and the arts got about 1% of that. But what’s the point of energy if we can’t watch movies, listen to music, go to theme parks, play video games, read books etc etc.

I mean sure some things are more important than others to our survival, but the arts definitely add a lot to our quality of life.

and not just that, but the arts are one of our biggest imports, and it’s also an export industry, so if we don’t produce artistic content here more will be imported, and less exported.

Hell I spend about $25, 000 per year to travel to visit theme parks Outside Australia because ours just aren’t the same.

 

[Value Collector]

Oh please. I'm not saying art isn't useful for some things but there are priorities to government spending.

You are welcome to pay whatever you want for what you call art, as am I, just dont expect everyone else to pay for your particular "tastes".

The priorities of the government should be expanding the economy. Which the arts is a big part of. $15 Billion is not chicken feed.

 

[Value Collector]

A shrivelled soulless lot we have here, eh, @Value Collector

I for one appreciate that support as I have numerous pieces by Australian artists. Some of those works cost me a five figure sum and others less than $500. Some I considered required framing. All of my outgoings went to those artists, and those in associated industries, and who more than likely....

............wait for it.................

spent it buying food, housing, paying debts, etc. Much like most of us do.

I am not a a huge expert on paintings, but I love film, music and literature, and as I eluded to above they are great export industries especially film.

 

[Smurf1976]

I mean sure some things are more important than others to our survival, but the arts definitely add a lot to our quality of life.

The arts as such, all of them, personally I'm fine with. They add value to the lived human experience and are a valuable part of society most certainly.

What some are less happy about isn't the art itself and nor is it the artist or even the venue or supporting facilities. No, it's something really quite different.

It's that anything "wordy" or "artsy" has been placed on a pedestal in contexts completely unrelated to those fields. Being able to write a convincing article in 2020 on why inflation won't be a problem or why coal power fails in the heat is far more highly regarded than being able to explain that neither of those is true.

So that's where the anti-arts sentiment comes from to my understanding. It's not really a rejection of the arts as such, it's more a rejection of the idea that being good with words is placed on a pedestal above all else.

And yes, a particular newspaper did indeed say inflation wasn't a risk going forward just a few years ago during the pandemic. Thankfully it was well written though, they got the important part right.

 

[Value Hunter]

It is pretty wide spread in all the professional and skilled categories.

Can you provide evidence behind your statement? I am not seeing many jobs with wages rising faster than inflation. In a genuine under supply situation the wages (i.e. price) of that profession would rise much faster than inflation to balance supply and demand. That is supply and demand 101.

Wage Price Index, Australia, June 2024

The WPI measures changes in the price of labour, unaffected by compositional shifts in the labour force, hours worked or employee characteristics

www.abs.gov.au

Annual and quarterly movement - industries (a)

	Annual Change (%)	Quarterly Change (%)
Mining	4.0	0.8
Manufacturing	4.4	1.6
Electricity, gas, water and waste services	3.9	1.2
Construction	4.3	1.4
Wholesale trade	3.7	1.2
Retail trade	4.4	2.9
Accommodation and food services	5.5	3.2
Transport, postal and warehousing	4.4	1.7
Information media and telecommunications	3.6	1.5
Financial and insurance services	3.1	1.0
Rental, hiring and real estate services	3.7	2.0
Professional, scientific and technical services	3.8	1.5
Administrative and support services	4.3	2.4
Public administration and safety	3.4	1.5
Education and training	3.6	1.1
Health care and social assistance	4.9	3.1
Arts and recreation services	4.6	1.6
Other services	3.8	1.5
All industries	4.1	1.9

a. Index series is original, total hourly rates of pay excluding bonuses.

The above information is for the quarter up to the end of September.
Over the twelve months to the September 2023 quarter, the CPI rose 5.4%

The only thing in table around that level is accomodation and food services, Everything else in the table is below CPI!!

Sure doesn't look like a labour shortage to me. Also unemployment has been rising the last few months. Again not indicative of widespread labour shortages.

There are select labour shortages in very specific jobs but for the most part the idea of widespread labour shortages is just large business propaganda (them talking their own book).

 

[Smurf1976]

There are select labour shortages in very specific jobs but for the most part the idea of widespread labour shortages is just large business propaganda

Like most things, I expect there's a mix of issues here.

Some occupations with genuine shortages.

Other situations where either a particular business, or businesses in general, won't pay enough to attract labour.

The latter would be particularly likely in situations where the whole workforce, at least anyone in the same job, is on the same pay rate. That situation's pretty common in big business and government especially frontline operational roles.

 

[divs4ever]

Can you provide evidence behind your statement? I am not seeing many jobs with wages rising faster than inflation. In a genuine under supply situation the wages (i.e. price) of that profession would rise much faster than inflation to balance supply and demand. That is supply and demand 101.

Wage Price Index, Australia, June 2024

The WPI measures changes in the price of labour, unaffected by compositional shifts in the labour force, hours worked or employee characteristics

www.abs.gov.au

Annual and quarterly movement - industries (a)

	Annual Change (%)	Quarterly Change (%)
Mining	4.0	0.8
Manufacturing	4.4	1.6
Electricity, gas, water and waste services	3.9	1.2
Construction	4.3	1.4
Wholesale trade	3.7	1.2
Retail trade	4.4	2.9
Accommodation and food services	5.5	3.2
Transport, postal and warehousing	4.4	1.7
Information media and telecommunications	3.6	1.5
Financial and insurance services	3.1	1.0
Rental, hiring and real estate services	3.7	2.0
Professional, scientific and technical services	3.8	1.5
Administrative and support services	4.3	2.4
Public administration and safety	3.4	1.5
Education and training	3.6	1.1
Health care and social assistance	4.9	3.1
Arts and recreation services	4.6	1.6
Other services	3.8	1.5
All industries	4.1	1.9

a. Index series is original, total hourly rates of pay excluding bonuses.

The above information is for the quarter up to the end of September.
Over the twelve months to the September 2023 quarter, the CPI rose 5.4%

The only thing in table around that level is accomodation and food services, Everything else in the table is below CPI!!

Sure doesn't look like a labour shortage to me. Also unemployment has been rising the last few months. Again not indicative of widespread labour shortages.

There are select labour shortages in very specific jobs but for the most part the idea of widespread labour shortages is just large business propaganda (them talking their own book).

in the past ( it might be different this time ) wage rises lag price rises by about 12 months ( except in some sectors where the employees have the upper hand , say airline pilots , top doctors ), and after the inflation rate starts cooling the wage rises ( which are still trying to catch up ) look like they are driving the late rises in costs , and of course wage costs will flow back into increasing a companies costs and late cycle the businesses strive hard to increase productivity trying to absorb the cost pressure

now the question is ( for this time ) in the drive for ( per capita ) productivity will industry veer more and more to automation to replace part of the work-force

and of course modern businesses take PR very seriously often having a whole department devoted to improving their image