Ignore this at your peril: The USA is going down

[PZ99]

That's exactly right. We do not have ID's in Australia, that idea got thrown out decades ago. My wife has never had a license and apart from her passport she has no other ID and she never carries her passport and even that "does not show where you live" like that Officer was demanding.

In all my years from birth until now I have never ever been asked for my ID, other than for when I was driving a car. Harassing someone for picking up trash outside the place where they live is nothing but police harassment. That video shown was from the Officers on body cam. He got stood down with pay and then he left his job. Apparently he broke 2 codes of conduct "no probable cause and he had no right to ask for the guys age" so they said. Is USA really the land of the free? I think not.....

Nothing wrong with what you're saying but no part of that video convinced me the guy was being harassed simply because he was black.

 

[Smurf1976]

No one said you have to carry ID. You still have to provide your details on request from a police officer.

Point taken but ultimately all you're doing in giving ID is making a statement. It's an offence to provide inaccurate information but there's no requirement to be carrying any official proof except under very specific circumstances.

In my life thus far, the only times I've been asked for ID are in circumstances where the reason seemed entirely legitimate: Entering a country, checking in to fly or board a ship or long distance train, entering nightclubs etc, to an employer, to a bank, police, post office, government authority etc in dealings initiated by me, checking into hotels, etc.

If anyone, uniformed police included, were to just randomly stop me in the street and ask who I am without there being some apparent circumstance that would justify needing to know then I'd be immediately suspicious as to both their legitimacy and as to my own safety being in that location. It's not at all common, at least not anywhere I've ever been, indeed I've never had it happen.

Simply asking people who they are is pointless unless they're checking that against some database or are looking for a specific answer which triggers some sort of response. Just knowing that I'm Joe Bloggs isn't much use in itself.

 

[PZ99]

Point taken but ultimately all you're doing in giving ID is making a statement. It's an offence to provide inaccurate information but there's no requirement to be carrying any official proof except under very specific circumstances.

In my life thus far, the only times I've been asked for ID are in circumstances where the reason seemed entirely legitimate: Entering a country, checking in to fly or board a ship or long distance train, entering nightclubs etc, to an employer, to a bank, police, post office, government authority etc in dealings initiated by me, checking into hotels, etc.

If anyone, uniformed police included, were to just randomly stop me in the street and ask who I am without there being some apparent circumstance that would justify needing to know then I'd be immediately suspicious as to both their legitimacy and as to my own safety being in that location. It's not at all common, at least not anywhere I've ever been, indeed I've never had it happen.

Simply asking people who they are is pointless unless they're checking that against some database or are looking for a specific answer which triggers some sort of response. Just knowing that I'm Joe Bloggs isn't much use in itself.

Well put it this way. If you had been walking outside anywhere during the lockdown you would've been asked to identify yourself

 

[Joe90]

 

[jbocker]

 

[aus_trader]

Phew , I read nearly 3 pages mostly off topic with a lot of personal attacks in between...

With regards to off-topic gender pay differences, let me just say it used to be the case years ago, but women have fought hard for their rights and these days it's pretty par for most professions. I say most professions because it's fixed/award pay for the role e.g. a teacher, nurse or retail assistant, regardless of gender.

However there are circumstances where I see it differs, but it's not because of gender discrimination but due to areas that women are just entering into i.e. young industries, which will equalise once mature. I am talking about woman cricketers and footy players that represent the country for example who would be paid less than the equivalent male at national level...at the moment.

Anyway getting back on the topic @frugal.rock had started, looks like our A$ is gaining ground against the US$

 

[Smurf1976]

If you had been walking outside anywhere during the lockdown you would've been asked to identify yourself

Around here at least no such thing occurred and for the record yes I walk down the street most days. Not once did anyone ask me who I was, and I wouldn't expect them to given there's no law precluding walking on a footpath so long as social distancing is maintained.

If that sort of thing is going on in the US then the chaos is starting to make more sense since randomly asking people who they are isn't going to fix any actual problem. It's a visible exercise of power and control for the sake of it and that tends to end badly.

 

[Smurf1976]

Anyway getting back on the topic @frugal.rock had started, looks like our A$ is gaining ground against the US$

I take that as a bullish sign for the stock market too.

Risk on.

 

[Smurf1976]

With regards to off-topic gender pay differences, let me just say it used to be the case years ago, but women have fought hard for their rights and these days it's pretty par for most professions.

Others may vary but where I've worked, gender simply hasn't been an input to the process of determining what someone gets paid. Zero difference male versus female doing the same work.

At a guess though it probably does matter more in small business which in general wouldn't have the same level of formality around pay rates etc as big business or government tends to have.

Even as a tourist though I've seen some seriously dodgy things in the US in terms of employer versus employee relations. Couldn't not see it when it's happening right in front of the customer.

Add that sort of thing to the list of things which raises stress and tensions among the masses just waiting for a spark.....

 

[PZ99]

Around here at least no such thing occurred and for the record yes I walk down the street most days. Not once did anyone ask me who I was, and I wouldn't expect them to given there's no law precluding walking on a footpath so long as social distancing is maintained.

If that sort of thing is going on in the US then the chaos is starting to make more sense since randomly asking people who they are isn't going to fix any actual problem but it's a sure way to stir people up if it's being done routinely. It's an exercise of power and control for the sake of it and that tends to end badly.

It's definitely a power trip. No argument there. Where I live it's the lesser of two evils

PS... where I work, the gender pay gap is gone but the gender work gap is still there.

Favouritism with the bosses is the real discrimination and that ranges from the workplace to the family court

 

[Bill M]

Well put it this way. If you had been walking outside anywhere during the lockdown you would've been asked to identify yourself

No exactly right. I am an exercise walker and I walked everyday in different directions and locations, including malls, streets, post office, the park, on the main highway and not once was I asked or harassed by police for ID. It is not something Australian Police do. I just wasn't allowed to sit down anywhere or congregate but otherwise life was normal for me. They gave us much more leeway than what I could ever expect.

 

[Bill M]

Nothing wrong with what you're saying but no part of that video convinced me the guy was being harassed simply because he was black.

Looking at that video ask yourself this question. If the older nice white guy employee at the end of the video was picking up the trash like the student was do you think the Police would even bother stopping and questioning him? I don't think so. As soon as he appeared at the end and vouched for the student everything was ok, no ID checks, no nothing. Why is it no ID checks were made on the older white guy but for the student the Officer had his hands on weapon ready to shoot him and had to call for back up?

 

[PZ99]

Looking at that video ask yourself this question. If the older nice white guy employee at the end of the video was picking up the trash like the student was do you think the Police would even bother stopping and questioning him? I don't think so. As soon as he appeared at the end and vouched for the student everything was ok, no ID checks, no nothing. Why is it no ID checks were made on the older white guy but for the student the Officer had his hands on weapon ready to shoot him and had to call for back up?

The older white guy was called in to verify the student so it's fair to assume they already knew who he was. And he was far more cooperative than the student. The student was obstructionist and became aggressive. It's a massive red flag. I'm also curious why the issues of people hurling abuse at the police isn't condemned every time this debate is raised ?

It's the dick puseys of this world who abuse dying police doing their duty that cause me to avoid joining the hate bandwagon of one sided views as encouraged by the media and lapped up by the sympathisers of law breakers.

The question you didn't ask is why were the police even there in the first place ?
Did someone complain about the student loitering or something ? Was the complainant racist ?

The other thing I'm surprised about is why the frequently misused "Woke" moniker hasn't been put into this debate because this is the very subject that the word was associated with to start with.

One suspects if these Warriors of Woke get their hands on Trumpy they'll give him the Gaddafi bayonet right up the backside and open him up like a tin of baked beans

 

[Junior]

Others may vary but where I've worked, gender simply hasn't been an input to the process of determining what someone gets paid. Zero difference male versus female doing the same work.

At a guess though it probably does matter more in small business which in general wouldn't have the same level of formality around pay rates etc as big business or government tends to have.

I've been in small to medium-sized financial planning business for 15 years. I've never witnessed or known of any gender discrimination when it comes to pay. In fact, female advisers are in high demand and have significant bargaining power these days, I would say it's swung in the other direction.

From what I see it's the same in most industries.

Average pay across the board will always be imbalanced, there are biological differences between men and women. Women have babies, men do not, and this has an impact on career.

 

[Knobby22]

I've been in small to medium-sized financial planning business for 15 years. I've never witnessed or known of any gender discrimination when it comes to pay. In fact, female advisers are in high demand and have significant bargaining power these days, I would say it's swung in the other direction.

From what I see it's the same in most industries.

Average pay across the board will always be imbalanced, there are biological differences between men and women. Women have babies, men do not, and this has an impact on career.

In my industry it is the same, if you are a woman graduate in Engineering to improve gender diversity, companies will fight to get you, it is the male graduates having trouble getting jobs.

 

[rederob]

As much as I agree with you that police there are racists this video isn't a good example of it.
It was a random ID check which happens all the time where I live in Mt Druitt.

You did not pay attention to what went on.
The officer had earlier seen the student sitting on his dormitory patio, then confronted him when he went collecting trash in front his premises.
The student provided his name, address and his student card AND offered to buzz the officer in to talk to the building superintendent.
This was still not enough, apparently.
You went on to add today that "The student was obstructionist and became aggressive," whereas the student actually went on doing his job peacefully.
It was the officer who escalated matters and failed to take the student up on the offer to talk to someone who could confirm his story.
No reasonable person could have determined that the officer was going to arrest the student for trespass as not only was it blindingly obvious the student was collecting trash, there had been no reports of concern that a trespass was being committed in broad daylight.
The fact that a student card was presented and work was being done in front of the student dormitory apparently informed the officer of .... absolutely nothing.

As @Bill M points out, had a white person been doing the same, the white officer would not have blinked.
The level of stupidity that was shown by the officer reflects why so many in America are concerned about the ingrained injustice that needs to be ridden of.

 

[PZ99]

@rederob
"had a white person been doing the same, the white officer would not have blinked."

I don't believe that in this case. Please provide unequivocal proof

 

[rederob]

@rederob
"had a white person been doing the same, the white officer would not have blinked."

I don't believe that in this case. Please provide unequivocal proof

If you do not believe it, then you need to offer a justification for the officer's actions. Alternatively, find another case that is similar for a white person.
The police department knew he stuffed up and made statements as to his poor handling of the situation.
The unequivocal proof lies in what did happen.

 

[PZ99]

The only thing proven was the cop didn't handle the situation properly.

That does not mean he was being racist.

He asked "What unit are you in". Response: "I don't have to tell you that". Red flag.

"If you have ID with an address that would be great"
"F*cking unbelievable man"

No sympathy from me and nothing remotely racist. Just pointless obstruction from dude.

" An internal investigation found the officer violated 2 department policies but did not conclude he was racially biased."

Yep that sums it up for me as well.

 

[qldfrog]

In my industry it is the same, if you are a woman graduate in Engineering to improve gender diversity, companies will fight to get you, it is the male graduates having trouble getting jobs.

Exactly, to name one major, the mining giant wants equality of gender in the workplace, which means as we have a higher proportion of site miners being male by far, it is very hard for a male to find employment in the brisbane head office which are favouring females by far..but hey on the company overall number they are bridging the gap...
Obviously at no point does anyone care about abilities, just sex..
Which in itself is a huge warning sign in term of overall performance of these giants in term of long term investment