Ignore this at your peril: The USA is going down

[Value Collector]

If you are already going to assert that I didn’t understand what the cops did wrong with the George Floyd arrest when I haven't discussed that event then nothing I say will be satisfactory for you.

.

The reason I said you didn't understand is because when I said "nobody is saying that he shouldn't have been arrested" you said this - "You joking mate ? What is all the protesting about then ? Bad weather ?"

This of course made me believe you thought the protest was about whether he should have been arrested or not, and that you didn't understand that people were protesting his harsh treatment that lead to his death and not the actual reason for the arrest. It wasn't the actual arrest that was the problem, it was the the brutality that was completely uncalled for.

You don't see to understand that there is a long history of excessive brutality towards people of colour, and you seem to think suggesting there is means that we are suggesting people are overtly racist, this is not what is happening.

What I am saying is that there is subconscious Bias that leads people to over react to situations, and this needs to be dealt with by better training for police.

 

[SirRumpole]

Seems to me the only solution is to have the numerical proportions of the police force reflect the proportions of the society in which they operate.

 

[Value Collector]

Seems to me the only solution is to have the numerical proportions of the police force reflect the proportions of the society in which they operate.

Unfortunately Black people also suffer from the same problems, Watch that doll test video I linked above, you can see even by the age of 5 the black kids are already thinking negatively about Blacks and positively about whites.

Its something that will take along time to change on a societal level, but in the mean time we need to make sure the guys carrying guns and making arrests have better training.

 

[PZ99]

The reason I said you didn't understand is because when I said "nobody is saying that he shouldn't have been arrested" you said this - "You joking mate ? What is all the protesting about then ? Bad weather ?"

This of course made me believe you thought the protest was about whether he should have been arrested or not, and that you didn't understand that people were protesting his harsh treatment that lead to his death and not the actual reason for the arrest. It wasn't the actual arrest that was the problem, it was the the brutality that was completely uncalled for.

You don't see to understand that there is a long history of excessive brutality towards people of colour, and you seem to think suggesting there is means that we are suggesting people are overtly racist, this is not what is happening.

What I am saying is that there is subconscious Bias that leads people to over react to situations, and this needs to be dealt with by better training for police.

Mate..... how can you say I don't understand when you can't even quote yourself accurately ?

What a weird post.

You didn't say "nobody is saying that he shouldn't have been arrested"

You DID say "No one is saying the cops were racist for arresting George Floyd"

There are plenty of people saying the cops were racist hence my response.

 

[Value Collector]

There is a show on Netflix called 100 humans ( I Think ).

They did a great experiment where they gave each subject of the test a hand gun and told them two people would jump out from behind cars about 20 metres infront of them, and that 1 would point a gun at them and one would point a phone, and they had to shoot the guy with the gun and not the innocent with his phone.

The innocent guy with the phone was black the guy with the gun was white, but over 90% of people including the black people instinctively shot at the black guy with the phone rather than the white guy with the gun.

It just seems in the heat of the moment a black guy looks scarier even when what he is doing is innocent.

 

[Value Collector]

Mate..... how can you say I don't understand when you can't even quote yourself accurately ?

What a weird post.

You didn't say "nobody is saying that he shouldn't have been arrested"

You DID say "No one is saying the cops were racist for arresting George Floyd"

There are plenty of people saying the cops were racist hence my response.

Ok I miss quoted my self slightly, however the point is exactly the same though, Nobody is saying they were racist for conducting the arrest.

So you saying "You joking mate ? What is all the protesting about then ? Bad weather ?" still makes me think you are confused about which part of the ordeal people have a problem with.

As I said no body would care about him being arrested if the arrest was handled properly and he was shown some basic human respect instead of being killed.

And, I believe the reason he was treated so harshly is because of the Bias people have where they are more likely to assume black men are dangerous and aggressive.

 

[PZ99]

After reading your last several posts VC I can safely say there's no confusion on my part

 

[SirRumpole]

And, I believe the reason he was treated so harshly is because of the Bias people have where they are more likely to assume black men are dangerous and aggressive.

Probably right, but the guy was handcuffed so the danger was essentially eliminated. Why the excessive violence then ? It seems to be more sadism than trying to contain a threat.

 

[macca]

Probably right, but the guy was handcuffed so the danger was essentially eliminated. Why the excessive violence then ? It seems to be more sadism than trying to contain a threat.

Power trip IMO plus the fact that Cops in USA live on the edge all the time, when they get the opportunity to get square they take it, unfortunately.

To go to work and know that every time you need to talk to someone they may pull a gun and shoot you would be very stressful. It almost has a ring of "guerilla warfare" doesn't it, you never know which person is going to pull and shoot.

Drugs mean that folk are out there completely off the planet with a gun in there pocket, dangerous situation for everyone but especially the cops.

If someone is acting crazy the first thing people do is ring the cops, cops arrive, people expect them to arrest the nutter but to do that they have to use force and then we have trouble

 

[sptrawler]

There is a show on Netflix called 100 humans ( I Think ).

They did a great experiment where they gave each subject of the test a hand gun and told them two people would jump out from behind cars about 20 metres infront of them, and that 1 would point a gun at them and one would point a phone, and they had to shoot the guy with the gun and not the innocent with his phone.

The innocent guy with the phone was black the guy with the gun was white, but over 90% of people including the black people instinctively shot at the black guy with the phone rather than the white guy with the gun.

It just seems in the heat of the moment a black guy looks scarier even when what he is doing is innocent.

I don't know if there is a link to violent crime and black people in the U.S, maybe due to the high poverty rates, there may be high crime rates associated with black people over there?

That appears to be the case in Africa, also there appears to be a high proportion of idigenous representation as a proportion of population incarcerated in Australian institutions.

That may in some way affect peoples perceptions, I could be wrong and it all could be as you say, just be a reflection of their skin colour in certain light conditions.

 

[SirRumpole]

I don't know if there is a link to violent crime and black people in the U.S, maybe due to the high poverty rates, there may be high crime rates associated with black people over there?

That appears to be the case in Africa, also there appears to be a high proportion of idigenous representation as a proportion of population incarcerated in Australian institutions.

That may in some way affect peoples perceptions, I could be wrong and it all could be as you say, just be a reflection of their skin colour in certain light conditions.

It may be the other way around too.

Lack of respect by indigenous people of white institutions like schools. Don't send the kids to a white school or they will become whites and lose their culture. Better to let them run around on the streets.

 

[sptrawler]

It may be the other way around too.

Lack of respect by indigenous people of white institutions like schools. Don't send the kids to a white school or they will become whites and lose their culture. Better to let them run around on the streets.

Who knows, but there are some things you can't say.
I've lived in Kalgoorlie, Roeburne, Collie, Meekatharra, Cue, Mt Magnet, Kununurra, Derby and Broome.
It is very difficult to get some people to do as they are told, when they are throwing missiles at you, asking nicely doesn't cut it.
So you either don't get involved and let them get on with it, or try to get them to stop, doing whatever they are doing.
If the police turn a blind eye to it, the public doesn't like it , because either they or their property gets damaged.
I can see this ending up as career for women only, similar to what has happened with teaching, now we have classrooms where teachers are being bashed.
Well I know a lot of people will not be pursuing a career in policing after this, the whole structure of society is being tested ATM, it will lead to interesting outcomes. Also a lot more walled communities IMO.

 

[macca]

It may be the other way around too.

Lack of respect by indigenous people of white institutions like schools. Don't send the kids to a white school or they will become whites and lose their culture. Better to let them run around on the streets.

Unfortunately peer pressure is very strong as family ties are very strong in Aboriginal life.

In many places it is only acceptable to progress if you are good at sport, if you are scholastic you are not as popular.

For many years aboriginal kids received payment if they went to school yet white people got a bill for some schools but at the very least they were expected to contribute school fees.

I found it interesting at Cape York that the Islander towns have strong expectations of their children to do well at school and have full time employment after leaving school.

Seisia is a cooperative and everyone there is expected to do something to keep the place running, no loafing around if you live there.

 

[qldfrog]

I am going to put forward a weird idea:
We are a mostly financial economic forum, at least in purpose.
Am i the only one in seing a parallel between the economic management post GFC and the global western socialisation.
Victimisation, refusal to assume responsibility, denial of evidence when not matching the accepted story, and collectivisation
->translated in national debt ,unrestrained with government pushing in to avoid any kind of recession even slowdown.
Collectivisation of economy, debt transfered ultimately in gov owned shares

 

[Smurf1976]

Am i the only one in seing a parallel between the economic management post GFC and the global western socialisation.
Victimisation, refusal to assume responsibility, denial of evidence when not matching the accepted story, and collectivisation

It goes back to the early 00's in my opinion. Could be wrong but that's my perception of it.

The world in 2020 is just too serious with everything I think. Too many people willing to jump on someone else for expressing an opinion or even just accidentally saying something in error that's deemed offensive. Too many who can't take a joke and have a laugh. Too many looking to sue someone for things which are their own fault and plenty who can't take a joke.

Popular culture's much the same. Go back to the 1960's - 90's and music was mostly either serious and focused on something real or it was sheer ridiculousness for the sake of having fun. Now in 2020 an awful lot of mainstream music is decidedly "down" in it's overall sound and even more depressing if you listen to the lyrics. In the space of a couple of decades we've gone from poking fun at ourselves and partying in the streets to jumping off cliffs and slashing our wrists it seems.

As for your examples, well anyone who takes responsibility these days is a freak basically since the mainstream approach has become one of blaming someone else, expecting others to pick up the pieces and denying what's standing right in front of you.

Technology has improved beyond belief, 2020 everyday reality now exceeds 1980's science fiction, and there's been a massive improvement in attitudes toward human health and safety. Other than that though, I think we're going backwards not forwards as a society overall. Even with things like race discrimination, it seemed to be sorted back in the 1990's with "everyone's equal" but now we're back to discriminating on all sorts of things once again.

 

[Value Collector]

Probably right, but the guy was handcuffed so the danger was essentially eliminated. Why the excessive violence then ? It seems to be more sadism than trying to contain a threat.

I think it just comes down to 3 things.

1, their internal risk meters were telling them he was big black and dangerous, so they over reacted.

2, they thought he was bullet proof and wouldn’t die regardless of what they did.

3, their pride didn’t let them take the bystanders advice, and give the guy a break.

You can see in the video as the public are yelling at him to remove his knee he gets a stiff upper lip and stubbornly refuses to do what they say.

 

[Value Collector]

I don't know if there is a link to violent crime and black people in the U.S, maybe due to the high poverty rates, there may be high crime rates associated with black people over there?

That appears to be the case in Africa, also there appears to be a high proportion of idigenous representation as a proportion of population incarcerated in Australian institutions.

That may in some way affect peoples perceptions, I could be wrong and it all could be as you say, just be a reflection of their skin colour in certain light conditions.

Even numbers like that can be flawed.

Studies have shown that when presented with exactly the same evidence, but just shown different mug shots, Juries are more likely to convict Blacks, and give harsher sentences.

So higher crimes rates can just mean higher conviction rates where whites were given the benefit of the doubt and let of.

but also as you said poverty rates also lead to higher crime, as 2pac said


“I'm tired of bein' poor and even worse I'm black
My stomach hurts, so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch
Cops give a damn about a negro
Pull the trigger, kill a nigga, he's a hero“

 

[Value Collector]

After reading your last several posts VC I can safely say there's no confusion on my part

So you now understand that nobody cares that he was arrested, and it was just the way the arrest was conducted that is being protested, good.

Now that you understand that, maybe next you might be able to see that race played a part either overtly or subconsciously in his treatment being much harsher than you would expect anybody to receive, especially for a non violent crime.

 

[sptrawler]

Even numbers like that can be flawed.

Studies have shown that when presented with exactly the same evidence, but just shown different mug shots, Juries are more likely to convict Blacks, and give harsher sentences.

So higher crimes rates can just mean higher conviction rates where whites were given the benefit of the doubt and let of.
“

That may be correct I certainly couldn't make that conclusion, when indigenous Australians make up 33% of prisoners and 3.3% of the population, you may be right but I feel studies are like statistics any conclusion can be derived.

 

[aus_trader]

Australians make up 33% of prisoners and 3.3% of the population

Struth !
Pretty scary stats mate...

Err... Forget Houston, Australia... we have a problem !