I can make 3 grand a day day trading!!!

[Trembling Hand]

Here are some figures,

$3000 is 120 ticks of the SPI or 100 of the Kospi or 280 ish of ES.

I find it hard to believe that anyone in the know could not get their head around a decent consistent sensible traders moving 10 lots or greater.

Thats 12 points on the spi or 10 on the Kospi or 7 on the es as an average target per day. Laughable performance.

 

[wayneL]

Netting 7 pts and 3k on ES is swinging 35 lots.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Netting 7 pts and 3k on ES is swinging 35 lots.

nah.

$50 per point X 7 = $350 x 10 lots = $3500 (I was talking points not the 1/4 tick per point)

 

[Trembling Hand]

In any case the performance and liquidity is there. Its just not a question. Absolutely nothing in it for a half decent futs trader.

The interesting questions is what kind of performance do you need to average these amounts and what account size would you also need to handle the swings and roundabouts. This is where the peanuts lose the plot (ASX stock punters).

 

[nunthewiser]

This is where the peanuts lose the plot (ASX stock punters).

Dear Trembling Hand,

Obviously
you are always correct and no one that trades the ASX can ever make a decent living trading it , Your markets are the only markets out there and other trading strategies just do not cut it including position trading ASX listed stocks and various other longer term strategys.

I trade other vehicles but mainly trade the ASX

I am not a daytrader unless there is an obvious play on a stock i follow OR i am trading an index.

I am obviously a peanut as i do not trade like you.

Opps i just realised this was a wasted post as you aint likely to see it with your head so far up ya own ass .

haveaniceday champ.

 

[Trembling Hand]

Nun my head may be firmly stuck up my **** but its you guys that are the ones that keep ridiculing the prospect of making 3 gs a day from a modest account size.

From this end you only have to have the most rudimentary discussion with peanuts like ROE, Sdajii and freddy and the like to realise that you might as well be talking to a fish about climbing a mountain. They simply have no understanding of the position sizing and risk controls you have when competently trading futures. and want not to know. Mostly they prefer to stick their own heads in the dark and throw dumb BS about living on yachts with prossies.

Mean while anyone who wants to discuss what is possible just move on and leave this place to the same old same old 2% risk per stock per month BS.

Farkin boring and very much to this place & their own detriment.

 

[tech/a]

The interesting questions is what kind of performance do you need to average these amounts and what account size would you also need to handle the swings and roundabouts. This is where the peanuts lose the plot (ASX stock punters).

Nun he's got the key to wind up all the toys.

Risk of Ruin will calculate Capital base.
Expectancy will calculate Risk of ruin.

T/H is right though 99.99% of Stock traders wouldnt know where to start.
.01% of us do though (Thats you and me nun.)

Futs are attractive.

So why dont I trade them.

I know this in stock trading I dont know it in Futs.

Risk of Ruin will calculate Capital base.
Expectancy will calculate Risk of ruin.

 

[nunthewiser]

Nun my head may be firmly stuck up my **** but its you guys that are the ones that keep ridiculing the prospect of making 3 gs a day from a modest account size.

Mean while anyone who wants to discuss what is possible just move on and leave this place to the same old same old 2% risk per stock per month BS.

Farkin boring and very much to this place & their own detriment.

Lol.

i have never ridiculed the prospect of making 3g a day , in fact i know it can be done as an AVEREAGE over the year. some days you have diamonds , some days you get smacked in the teeth no matter how well you control your stops and trades.

yep as far as the same ole same ole 2% blah blah blah thats not my boat either and can read that crud in any one of 300 books hitting our bookstores.

I enjoy your posts , in fact i often get quite a few jewels out of them, i just dont trade the same as you and actually KNOW that i may be missing out on the big picture re futures etc etc , but perhaps i enjoy the slower pace of position trading.

We are different traders.

I,ll shuddup now as i have no intentions or actual knowledge of making 3k EVERY day via daytrading ANY instrument.

 

[Trembling Hand]

We are different traders.

I,ll shuddup now as i have no intentions or actual knowledge of making 3k EVERY day via daytrading ANY instrument.

fair'e'nuff nun.

but here is something that I have said very often. The more frequent your trading the more even the daily results are. We all know given positive expectancy and all else being equal that over the next 10 trades the results could be anything. Over the next 100 they should be positive but over the next 200 it can be reasonably assumed you will be well into positive territory, given postive expectancy blah blah.

For an investor the 200 trades may never arrive, for a swing trader a year. Active stock trader months. But for an active intraday trader 200 trades is just a few days work. Some methods you can/should expect reasonable consistent daily results.

 

[nunthewiser]

fair'e'nuff nun.

but here is something that I have said very often. The more frequent your trading the more even the daily results are. We all know given positive expectancy and all else being equal that over the next 10 trades the results could be anything. Over the next 100 they should be positive but over the next 200 it can be reasonably assumed you will be well into positive territory, given postive expectancy blah blah.

For an investor the 200 trades may never arrive, for a swing trader a year. Active stock trader months. But for an active intraday trader 200 trades is just a few days work. Some methods you can/should expect reasonable consistent daily results.

Makes sense, thankyou.


And yes i understand where you are coming from re daytrading the ASX. Tis a tiny little pond to play in compared to futures and other vehicles.

I can also understand that that it is NOT the playing field of choice for Constant intraday skims as MOST of the ranges are hardly worth the bother without using extremley large trade parcels( leveraged or cash)to skim the miniscule ranges presented day to day.

Therefore as an active moddestly sizes daytrader, the ASX stock group would be the last place one would look if one opened there eyes and wanted to join the game on a intraday basis.

have a great day.

 

[wayneL]

nah.

$50 per point X 7 = $350 x 10 lots = $3500 (I was talking points not the 1/4 tick per point)

Ah yes, had a blond moment there.

 

[nulla nulla]

The post in this thread have made interesting reading. On one hand there are the sceptical posters and on the other hand there are those that consider the claim of a day trader to making AUD$3,000.00 per day as entirely plausable.

Apart from the original poster, in reading through the comments I haven't seen any one else claim to have generated $3,000.00 per day as a day trader.

$3,000.00 X 5 X 52 = $780,000.00 p.a ( less adjustments for the days all the markets are closed).

Unless of course the "day trader" has:

1. an incredible capital base;
2. multiple lines of credit;
3. a willingness to take on significant risk;
4. personal stamina;
5. the ability to stay awake 24 hours a day for at least five days a week;
6. the capacity to execute multiple daily trades across multiple trading platforms in the international markets; and
7. Every trade a winner.

I would say it is all crap.

 

[nomore4s]

The post in this thread have made interesting reading. On one hand there are the sceptical posters and on the other hand there are those that consider the claim of a day trader to making AUD$3,000.00 per day as entirely plausable.

Apart from the original poster, in reading through the comments I haven't seen any one else claim to have generated $3,000.00 per day as a day trader.

$3,000.00 X 5 X 52 = $780,000.00 p.a ( less adjustments for the days all the markets are closed).

Unless of course the "day trader" has:

1. an incredible capital base;
2. multiple lines of credit;
3. a willingness to take on significant risk;
4. personal stamina;
5. the ability to stay awake 24 hours a day for at least five days a week;
6. the capacity to execute multiple daily trades across multiple trading platforms in the international markets; and
7. Every trade a winner.

I would say it is all crap.

Nulla it is more then possible and with an account size of around a $100,000 and with only trading between 1-4 hours a day and with only trading 1 to 3 different markets per day.

The catch is you need a great amount of skill and understanding of what you are doing to do this, but there are traders on this site that do it consistently.

The 7 needs you listed above show a clear lack of understanding about the futures markets and highlight exactly what TH has been saying about people not having a true knowledge of how futures markets work. I have posted a weeks(only 4 days in fact as I that's all I traded that week) results up before which I know you have seen and while not quite $3k a day it should give you an idea of what is possible as it was done with under $100k in that account.

My issue with this thread is not what Buddy is claiming because I know it is very possible but with how he is doing it (or supposedly doing it, as there appears to be a few holes in his claims), making 3k a day trading 25 contracts at a time (or the huge size in general) indicates to me he is not very skilled (ie just using huge leverage and only taking a couple of points a time out of the market) and will eventually blow up imo - what I would like to see is just how far off-side he has held these trades or is willing to hold these trades because as far as I have seen there has been no stop-loss or get out points mentioned.

 

[nomore4s]

Here are some figures,

$3000 is 120 ticks of the SPI or 100 of the Kospi or 280 ish of ES.

I find it hard to believe that anyone in the know could not get their head around a decent consistent sensible traders moving 10 lots or greater.

Thats 12 points on the spi or 10 on the Kospi or 7 on the es as an average target per day. Laughable performance.

In any case the performance and liquidity is there. Its just not a question. Absolutely nothing in it for a half decent futs trader.

The interesting questions is what kind of performance do you need to average these amounts and what account size would you also need to handle the swings and roundabouts. This is where the peanuts lose the plot (ASX stock punters).

Again these points are overlooked by most especially the bold bit.

The fact is what is being claimed on this thread is more then possible and there have even been posters who have posted results similar to what is being claimed here.

While Buddy appears to be full of BS, I find it amazing so few think it is achievable, there has been a few points raised to try and get the discussion headed towards somthing we could all get something useful from but like most threads this tends to get overlooked by most because of their limited understanding of how most of the worlds markets work.

The futures markets provide ample opportunities for very good returns on a regular basis on a modest capital base ($100kish) if you are willing to do the hard work to understand how and what exactly is required but as we know most are unwilling to do this.

The mention of % returns is irrelevent to a certain degree when dealing with futures because of how leverage works in the futures markets infact most of the time your capital sits in your trading account earning interest, I only keep a nominal amount in my trading account for this reason. Also as TH mentioned by the time you take out your wage, expenses, tax etc there isn't so much to compound.

 

[nulla nulla]

Nulla it is more then possible and with an account size of around a $100,000 and with only trading between 1-4 hours a day and with only trading 1 to 3 different markets per day.

The catch is you need a great amount of skill and understanding of what you are doing to do this, but there are traders on this site that do it consistently.

The 7 needs you listed above show a clear lack of understanding about the futures markets and highlight exactly what TH has been saying about people not having a true knowledge of how futures markets work.

My issue with this thread is not what Buddy is claining because I know it is very possible but with how he is doing it (or supposedly, as there appears to be a few holes in his claims), making 3k a day trading 25 contracts at a time (or the huge size in general) indicates to me he is not very skilled (ie just using huge leverage and only taking a couple of points a time out of the market) and will eventually blow up imo - what I would like to see is just how far off-side he has held these trades or is willing to hold these trades because as far as I have seen there has been no stop-loss or get out points mentioned.

You and I have had this discusion before on "understanding the big picture". Regardless of which market arena's and/or how many you dabble in, you are not going to convince me that you can acurately predict the sentiment driving the respective markets sufficiently to be able to generate a $3,000.00 per day return on a $100,000.00 capital base. This means you consider that you can turn $100,000.00 into $780,000.00 in one year.

"The catch is you need a great amount of skill and understanding of what you are doing to do this, but there are traders on this site that do it consistently."

Bullsh*t, the realty is that you haven't done it. As much as I respect you and some of the other posters in this thread, that have a proven understanding of how the various markets integrate and work with each other, I do not believe that any of the day traders posting in here are generating $780,000.00 per anum before tax on an original capital base of $100,000.00. This year or any other year.

 

[nomore4s]

Bullsh*t, the realty is that you haven't done it. As much as I respect you and some of the other posters in this thread, that have a proven understanding of how the various markets integrate and work with each other, I do not believe that any of the day traders posting in here are generating $780,000.00 per anum before tax on an original capital base of $100,000.00. This year or any other year.

For starters I work on only 40 trading weeks in a year (200 trading days) because like any other business you need to allow for sick days, holidays and days the markets don't trade - any extra trading days are considered a bonus to my trading year, so the return is more like $600,000.

Secondly $3000 a day is currently not what I'm achieving but as stated I have posted a typical trading week up which is about an average week for me give or take a couple of grand. I would only consider myself an average trader at this stage and if I can comfortably return $1500-$2000 a day on an account size less then $100k what do you think is achievable by the better traders who have more experience - I have seen what is possible and it still amazes me. Also it currently wouldn't matter if I had $250,000 in that account my returns would be pretty much the same as I wouldn't be willing to trade much more size until I had over $500k to play with because I would have to change my methods to a certain extent.
The point missed by most here is it is not purely the return on your account size that matters in daytrading futures but your ability to survive the swings and roundabouts while being able to consistantly draw an income, pay taxes etc from that account.

You can believe what you want Nulla but you cannot compare what is possible with futures trading to trading ASX stocks imo, the opportunities the 2 different markets present is poles apart. Most don't think what the title of this thread suggests is possible because they don't understand futures and futures trading but there are people who do it, but I will admit that only a few do.

I've said my part and anyone wanting to discuss it further can do it via pm with me but for now back to my holiday.

 

[satanoperca]

While I am no expert on futures trading, trading is trading. It is all about risk and reward.

I'm sure a capable futures trader can make $3,000 a day on a $100K capital base, however what do they risk to achieve this huge rate of return?

There are four aspects to this discussion in my eyes:
1) Is $3K a day achievable - YES
2) How much risk are you exposing yourself to and what is your max drawdown over a day, week, year?
3) Can you achieve it consistently, over 5 years?
4) Can you prove it with trading statements?

Upon fore-filing the above requirements, please send me on autographed mug, as you have reached guru status in my eyes.

As it has been stated in this thread, some posters have and are achieving this $3K status, so can one of those posters please confirm this either in this thread or via PM, for my own curiousity.

Cheers

 

[Trembling Hand]

Oh my god!!

 

[nulla nulla]

You can believe what you want Nulla but you cannot compare what is possible with futures trading to trading ASX stocks imo, the opportunities the 2 different markets present is poles apart. Most don't think what the title of this thread suggests is possible because they don't understand futures and futures trading but there are people who do it, but I will admit that only a few do.

My previous posts refer to trading in all markets and make no comparison, or limitation to returns generated by trading the asx.
I'm sure there are members generating large daily returns (above an average of $3,000.00 per day for the days they trade) in various trading platforms using a higher capital base. The higher capital base allows them to take trades in large volumes for smaller percentage gains. It comes back to allocation of resources, risk return assessment and hopefully getting it right more often than you get it wrong. It doesn't matter which market you trade in or how many markets you trade in.
The point I make is no "day trader" in this forum is consistantly generating a daily profit of $3,000.00 on a capital base of $100,000.00 (over a 12 month period) regardless of how many trading platforms they spread their time accross.

 

[satanoperca]

Oh my god!!

Care to elaborate.