Hydrogen

[JohnDe]

Origin Energy has joined the exodus from the Hydrogen bandwagon.
From Evil murdoch press
Origin Energy is abandoning its ambitious plans to develop hydrogen in the country’s industrial heartland in another blow to the Albanese government’s dreams for the energy source to help drive the transition to net zero.
The group said on Thursday that the decision to exit the proposed Hunter Valley Hydrogen Hub project reflected uncertainty around the “pace and timing of development of the hydrogen market” and the risks associated with developing capital-intensive projects of this nature.

It comes after billionaire Andrew Forrest earlier this year cancelled his own green hydrogen targets in a major business backdown that resulted in the loss of 700 jobs at his flagship company Fortescue.

Origin chief executive Frank Calabria says the company had worked hard to evaluate the investment case for hydrogen and continued to believe hydrogen could play a role in the future energy mix.

“However, it has become clear that the hydrogen market is developing more slowly than anticipated, and there remain risks and both input cost and technology advancements to overcome,” said Mr Calabria. “The combination of these factors mean we are unable to see a current pathway to take a final investment decision on the project.”
Mick

Reality, the shortage of spare cash and possible strong competition has got big business spooked.

Reality - the theory is good; the practical application is expensive and dangerous.

Cash, it's running low: The Albanese government has promised to back Hydrogen, but they're looking more and more like a one term government.

Competition: The cost of electricity production from renewables is coming down faster than anticipated, and the Australian voter is warming to the idea of nuclear power stations.

 

[Smurf1976]

Competition: The cost of electricity production from renewables is coming down faster than anticipated, and the Australian voter is warming to the idea of nuclear power stations.

That's not competition however, that's the input.

Cheaper electricity is exactly what's needed to lower the cost of hydrogen production.

That said, a key risk is politics and that goes for both renewables and nuclear since both depend on government given the highly politicised nature of the issue and that, in the case of nuclear, it's a direct government project.

 

[JohnDe]

That's not competition however, that's the input.

Cheaper electricity is exactly what's needed to lower the cost of hydrogen production.

That said, a key risk is politics and that goes for both renewables and nuclear since both depend on government given the highly politicised nature of the issue and that, in the case of nuclear, it's a direct government project.

Cheaper electricity is being developed in and near suburbs, through solar panels on roofs and wind farms near towns, and batteries are getting cheaper. Getting that electricity to the location of hydrogen production is not going to be easy or cheap.

While the manufacturers of hydrogen work out how to get cheap electricity to their plants, the EV world is moving ever faster in the development and production of light, medium and heavy-duty vehicles.

This is the competition: get cheap hydrogen out into the world before electrification of transport takes hold. Fail that and 50% of your market is gone before you've started.

 

[Dona Ferentes]

I feel I need to get up to speed with Hydrogen and Hydrogen related stocks both on the ASX and in overseas markets.
It is somewhat of a black hole in my knowledge

ditto

Could any ASF members appraise me of its present state as a future green fuel, as an investment , and that of the attendant stocks which may benefit from its use as fuel and in industry generally.

green fuel ... long way off, seems to be the general consensus. Am glad others chased it, not me

now, the following is left field stuff, and I don't have any insights.

Hydrogen and longevity​

the Americans, read cashed up start up mashed up up'n ups, are throwing money around, thinking they're going to solve things like healthy aging... . Here's one ..
"A lot of research says we need more hydrogen, as Patrick explains in detail. Basically, it helps get rid of free radicals."
:

Patrick Cox on Hydrogen (H2) Therapy - Transformative Age

m.mauldineconomics.com

.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

ditto

green fuel ... long way off, seems to be the general consensus. Am glad others chased it, not me

now, the following is left field stuff, and I don't have any insights.

Hydrogen and longevity​

the Americans, read cashed up start up mashed up up'n ups, are throwing money around, thinking they're going to solve things like healthy aging... . Here's one ..
"A lot of research says we need more hydrogen, as Patrick explains in detail. Basically, it helps get rid of free radicals."
:

Patrick Cox on Hydrogen (H2) Therapy - Transformative Age

m.mauldineconomics.com

.

You have to give it to the Americans, if there is a buck to be made, they will chase it. To save members of ASF from being driven to distraction by studies with dubious results I have picked out the most important parts for those interested in a sure fire way to reverse aging.

"This article is probably already too long."

and

" That said, I use Dr. Mercola brand Molecular Hydrogen almost as soon as I wake up every day. I drop the pill into about 1.5 liters of water and breathe the escaping hydrogen until it is dissolved. Then I drink the hydrogen-rich water immediately, usually without pausing even to breathe. This provides a dose roughly equivalent to those used in most of the clinical trials cited above. I buy mine from Amazon and pay 0.41 cents per day."


gg

 

[mullokintyre]

ditto
healthy aging... . Here's one ..
"A lot of research says we need more hydrogen, as Patrick explains in detail. Basically, it helps get rid of free radicals."
:

Patrick Cox on Hydrogen (H2) Therapy - Transformative Age

m.mauldineconomics.com

.

I agree, those bloody radicals should have been locked up years ago.
Starting with Lydia.
Mick

 

[Dona Ferentes]

free radicals ...

I agree, those bloody radicals should have been locked up years ago.
Starting with Lydia.
Mick

free cash
free Bill Posters

 

[TimeISmoney]

There are Hydrogen startups getting off the ground, but the biggest problem I see they face is the cost of making it, which isn't sustainable in this present day. Not an energy resource I've done a lot of research into but I can see how it could be useful in environments where you can't run electrical cabling and the weight or space of batteries can become problematic.

I've been watching Pure Hydrogen Corporation Limited for a while and it seems to be flying under the radar.

Note* (Not holding)

 

[TimeISmoney]

Pure Hydrogen trucks deeper into US EV heartland​

• Pure Hydrogen has reached terms to negotiate EV supply into US markets
• The MoU lays expectations for CY2025 supply
• Third US agreement validates market-building strategy

Special Report: Pure Hydrogen has reached terms with ETHERO Truck + Energy to negotiate the distribution and supply of its vehicles into US markets.

 

[Smurf1976]

There are Hydrogen startups getting off the ground, but the biggest problem I see they face is the cost of making it, which isn't sustainable in this present day. Not an energy resource I've done a lot of research into but I can see how it could be useful in environments where you can't run electrical cabling and the weight or space of batteries can become problematic.

The basic problem is that hydrogen produced via electrolysis is a derivative of electricity with significant losses added on top.

That is, the energy produced by burning the hydrogen is far less than the energy required to produce it. It thus has value for its portability but cost is problematic due to that physical aspect.

 

[Value Collector]

The basic problem is that hydrogen produced via electrolysis is a derivative of electricity with significant losses added on top.

That is, the energy produced by burning the hydrogen is far less than the energy required to produce it. It thus has value for its portability but cost is problematic due to that physical aspect.

I think that over time it’s going to make sense to electrify everything that can be electrified, and over build renewables to power it, and then produce hydrogen for only for the things that can’t be electrified and make that hydrogen with the spare electricity that can’t be used or stored at certain times.

 

[TimeISmoney]

The basic problem is that hydrogen produced via electrolysis is a derivative of electricity with significant losses added on top.

That is, the energy produced by burning the hydrogen is far less than the energy required to produce it. It thus has value for its portability but cost is problematic due to that physical aspect.

I think hydrogen is more about having stored energy on demand without delays in particular locations or uses.

 

[JohnDe]

There are Hydrogen startups getting off the ground, but the biggest problem I see they face is the cost of making it, which isn't sustainable in this present day. Not an energy resource I've done a lot of research into but I can see how it could be useful in environments where you can't run electrical cabling and the weight or space of batteries can become problematic.

I've been watching Pure Hydrogen Corporation Limited for a while and it seems to be flying under the radar.

Note* (Not holding)

I've been a holder of PH2 for quite some time, one of my speculative holdings. Saying that it is 'flying under the radar" is probably a nice way of saying 'we think they are heading in the right direction'.

 

[Smurf1976]

I think that over time it’s going to make sense to electrify everything that can be electrified, and over build renewables to power it, and then produce hydrogen for only for the things that can’t be electrified and make that hydrogen with the spare electricity that can’t be used or stored at certain times.

From a physics and practical engineering perspective that’s the rational approach.

Hydrogen has some existing and potential uses, it’s not a dud concept as such, but it’s not likely to become anywhere near as ubiquitous as oil and gas have been in recent decades. Simply because it’s considerably harder to handle and costly to produce.

It does have definite uses though.

 

[TimeISmoney]

Singapore using hydrogen as a transitional gas mixed with LPG to run gas turbines for base loads. It's still a cheaper option than going to other green alternatives.

 

[mullokintyre]

There is a website called Hydrogen Insight.
Its main function seems to be spruiiking the concept of green hydrrogen.
However, some of the articles on the home page are not helping the cause.

One is the announcement that a japanese utility has pulled out of the consortium to produce green hydrogen citing
" higher costs of H2 production than originally estimated in the feasibility study"

Another is a story about a green hydrogen player switching to fossil fuels from green hydrogen.


And a third story about the abandonment of the Gibson island H2 plant by the FMG/Incitec Pivot tie up
Mick

 

[JohnDe]

Another blow to the hydrogen plan.

Japan cuts off Australian hydrogen supply – reports
Two large Japanese corporations have withdrawn their support for Australian hydrogen projects within days of each other – amid continued investment into fuel-cell cars by Toyota.

A multibillion-dollar deal to supply Japan with hydrogen appears to be in tatters.

First reported by The Age, a trial to supply Kawasaki Heavy Industries with 'brown hydrogen' – created from coal using converted powerplants – has been abandoned, according to Japanese news outlet Nikkei.

The plan involved converting brown coal to liquefied hydrogen in Victoria's Gippsland region, to be transported via specially-built ships out of Hastings – providing Japan's industry with a steady supply of clean-burning hydrogen.

Japanese car giant Toyota has been one of a handful of manufacturers pushing for hydrogen to be adopted as an alternative fuel – either replacing petrol with internal-combustion engines, or used in conjunction with fuel-cells to convert hydrogen to electricity.

However, it now appears Japan's Kawasaki Heavy Industries has walked away from the deal with Victoria, with local media claiming it had become "difficult to produce hydrogen in Australia within the deadline".

The Victoria Government provided $50 million of start-up capital to the program – in an effort to support jobs in the La Trobe Valley, home to coal-fired powerplants – while the Japanese Government pledged an investment of $2.35 billion.

It's just the latest Australian hydrogen project to be abandoned by Japanese partners in a matter of days.

Nikkei Asia reports Japanese utility company Kansai Electric Power has also withdrawn from a project to produce green hydrogen.

Unlike brown hydrogen, derived from brown coal, green hydrogen is created from water – with the process to be powered by a combination of wind and solar power.

Named the Central Queensland Hydrogen Project (CQ-H2), the facility is set to be based in Gladstone, with significant support from state and federal governments, as well as large investments from overseas partners.

Kansai was part of a consortium with other Japanese firms including Iwatani and Marubeni, an infrastructure company from Singapore called Keppel, and the Queensland State-owned utility corporation Stanwell.

According to the report, Kansai cited higher costs of hydrogen production identified during engineering project planning, which had increased since the original feasibility study conducted in 2021.

It's assumed the project will continue without the support of Kansai, given it has already received a commitment of $117 million from government and consortium partners, and is eligible for more than $2 billion in federal grants.

 

[sptrawler]

It doesn't sound as though the Whyalla green steel hydrogen furnace is moving along smoothly.

MSN

The South Australian premier says it would be a “national disaster” if Whyalla steelworks closed to leave Australia’s construction industry dependent on imports.

“It simply cannot be allowed to happen,” Peter Malinauskas told reporters on Tuesday. “What workers at the Whyalla steelworks should have confidence in is that I do not believe this nation wants to see steel making capacity lost.”

The struggling steelworks, bought seven years ago by British industrialist Sanjeev Gupta’s GFG Alliance, has been beset by problems due to a series of shutdowns of its coal-fired blast furnace, which lies at the heart of the steelmaking process. Jobs have been lost and promises to invest in the decarbonisation of the operations remain unfulfilled.

Whyalla’s mining and steel operations represent the economic foundation of a city relied on by numerous workers and other businesses, from contractors to cafes.

On Sunday, it was reported that 40 contract workers supplying waste management services at the operation had been made redundant.

Malinauskas was asked on Tuesday if there would be government assistance for those that had lost their jobs. He did not answer the question directly, instead responding that the message for the federal government and the nation was that “this country can’t afford to have the Whyalla steelworks fall over.”