How do you learn about day trading?

[nizar]

A couple of trades a week is a hobby.

Well i beg to differ.

I treat my trading like a business and take it very seriously, and so do others that I know whom also trade weekly timeframes, which means a couple of trades a week at best.

Every business requires RESOURCES and incurs EXPENSES.
Its not uncommon for a business to not be profitable in the first year.

I don't see why trading should be treated any differently.

 

[tech/a]

Nizar.

I think TH meant in the context of short term to day trading.

Mind you I wonder if there were traders doing that with say $500k and pulling 5% whether that would be a hobby?

 

[Trembling Hand]

Well i beg to differ.

I treat my trading like a business and take it very seriously, and so do others that I know whom also trade weekly timeframes, which means a couple of trades a week at best.

Every business requires RESOURCES and incurs EXPENSES.
Its not uncommon for a business to not be profitable in the first year.

I don't see why trading should be treated any differently.

Nizar I just meant if you are looking to do a couple of day trades a week that really is not going to get you far. I know people can make very good money doing just a couple of hours a week 'work' on the market. But in the context of learning and starting small and all that goes with that you are up against it as in being a big $$ spinner. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

[gavank]

Hi a good question that I asked myself at the beginning of this year after 20+ yeARS OF TRADING..... i NEEDED TO MAKE A LIVING IN THE MARKET AS i HAD RETURNED TO UNI to do my PhD in Chemical engineering / Metallurgy

Anyone can trade successfully If your logical and are willing to learn/ and analyse your feelings / decissions.
Learn from your mistakes or better still from someone elses

After carefull analysis of my past I devised a system that works

411 trades this year
6 losses this year , to date
up just over $121,000 for the year and that is only trading the first hour of the day on tuesday , wednesday and thursday.... I must be back in the chemistry Lab by 9 am each morning ready and raring to start my research labs

its easy .... beats teaching wheich I have done for the past 30 years....

want to know more ???

just ask
its easy

 

[prawn_86]

Thats sounds interesting Gavan.

i dont know much about short term trading, but that win:loss ration seems huge. > 400 wins vs 6 losses would be almost unheard of imo. I was under the impression that short term trades will have a higher loss ratio.

Also, can i ask what % you are up? As stating a figure means nothing really.

Is it a mechanical system, or does it use your personal discretion?

 

[gavank]

All I trade is shares under 50 c , the cheaper the better
I trade on momentum and only if the previpous day has seen a volume in excess of 10, million + at least 4500 trades
I wont compromise.... they are my entry / alerts to even consider the4 trade

there is a lot more ive written , but too much to post on this \site

I have a group of students who follow me and my tips each day and often sit with me in the library at market open to watch and ciopy my trades

its easy
I have a pen, a book to record what I need to track my interesting stocks

I must have active trading for the stock - 1 per second, roughly, I want 3 times as much buyer interest as sellers and wont even look at a stock till it has sold at least 5 million the following morning.
I dont bottome fish
I dont want the lowest price
Most of my trades last for between 30 seconds and 5 minutes
I dont hold any stock overnight

hope that helps a bit

My average gain on a 3 cent stock is 2 cents------ $600 per trade
10 c stock gain also 3 to 4 cents

 

[gavank]

I only trade 1000 to 2000 per trade and make 30% to 100 % per trade
I will take 100 if i have to .... I am strict that as soon as the balance of power changes (buy sell ratio - prefereably 3 :1) Im out of there.... 100 profit or even 20 profit is better the a loss
small but steady always wins i FIND

 

[Wysiwyg]

The 6 losses must have been during the July - August correction

 

[Kauri]

411 trades this year
6 losses this year , to date
up just over $121,000 for the year and that is only trading the first hour of the day on tuesday , wednesday and thursday....
its easy .... beats teaching wheich I have done for the past 30 years....

want to know more ???

just ask
its easy

I would have been interested to hear what you do until I read the above... No way I would tag someone else until they can trim their losses to a more acceptable level..
Cheers
........Kauri

 

[Kauri]

Gavin,
How solid are your rules... the chart of ORO was posted by Kennas after your post on 10 Jan... I don't for the life of me see 10, million volume..and the chart is Weekly to boot!!!..
Cheers
........Kauri

 

[chops_a_must]

i dont know much about short term trading, but that win:loss ration seems huge. > 400 wins vs 6 losses would be almost unheard of imo. I was under the impression that short term trades will have a higher loss ratio.

No. Short term traders have a high win ratio, but a low r/r. It's not unheard of for scalpers, gap and range players to have win ratios of 80% or more. But this win ratio, I don't believe...

 

[wayneL]

No. Short term traders have a high win ratio, but a low r/r. It's not unheard of for scalpers, gap and range players to have win ratios of 80% or more. But this win ratio, I don't believe...

Even 80% I have "difficulty" believing without some concrete evidence over a longer term (not just a one way market). Hells Bells, I'd be turning over millions per day with that sort of confidence and be driving around in a Bentley... so would anyone actually achieving that.

 

[professor_frink]

Even 80% I have "difficulty" believing without some concrete evidence over a longer term (not just a one way market). Hells Bells, I'd be turning over millions per day with that sort of confidence and be driving around in a Bentley... so would anyone actually achieving that.

I can get an 80%+ success rate- just set my profit target to 1 tick, and my stop at 20, and I should get there. Not sure that would get me a bentley though. A datsun maybe

 

[wayneL]

I can get an 80%+ success rate- just set my profit target to 1 tick, and my stop at 20, and I should get there. Not sure that would get me a bentley though. A datsun maybe

Well let's look at that.

Expectancy=((1 + reward/risk ratio) * win/loss ratio)-1

=((1 + .05) * .8)-1

= -0.16

Perhaps a second had pair of Reeboks stolen from the Salvos bin.

 

[professor_frink]

Well let's look at that.

Expectancy=((1 + reward/risk ratio) * win/loss ratio)-1

=((1 + .05) * .8)-1

= -0.16

Perhaps a second had pair of Reeboks stolen from the Salvos bin.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

The search for the holy grail continues

 

[Timmy]

This thread has become very interesting. I like momentum methods. You have a nice one there gavank, well done! There is also a momentum trading thread over on the FX forum here.

WayneL the point you raised about achieving high (80+%) success rates and therefore hugely increasing position size is a good one but I don't think it applies in the case of gavank's method; the instruments being traded are lower priced shares so liquidity is going to be a concern preventing loading up position size too aggressively. It would be relevant though in FX where bigger positions can be taken more readily.

I am looking forward to hearing more from gavank on his method on this thread! Using market depth to gauge sentiment I find challenging given the ease with which buying and selling interest can be pulled, so changing the picture, please expand gavank.

 

[wayneL]

This thread has become very interesting. I like momentum methods. You have a nice one there gavank, well done! There is also a momentum trading thread over on the FX forum here.

WayneL the point you raised about achieving high (80+%) success rates and therefore hugely increasing position size is a good one but I don't think it applies in the case of gavank's method; the instruments being traded are lower priced shares so liquidity is going to be a concern preventing loading up position size too aggressively. It would be relevant though in FX where bigger positions can be taken more readily.

I am looking forward to hearing more from gavank on his method on this thread! Using market depth to gauge sentiment I find challenging given the ease with which buying and selling interest can be pulled, so changing the picture, please expand gavank.

Agreed there, but I'd be interested in proof of such a high win rate from a momentum method.

Also, why limit your earnings with microcaps, when you can really crank up position size on other instruments?

 

[Trembling Hand]

411 trades this year
6 losses this year , to date
up just over $121,000 for the year and that is only trading the first hour of the day on tuesday , wednesday and thursday.... I must be back in the chemistry Lab by 9 am each morning ready and raring to start my research labs

its easy .... beats teaching wheich I have done for the past 30 years....

All I trade is shares under 50 c , the cheaper the better
I trade on momentum and only if the previpous day has seen a volume in excess of 10, million + at least 4500 trades
I wont compromise.... they are my entry / alerts to even consider the4 trade

My average gain on a 3 cent stock is 2 cents------ $600 per trade
10 c stock gain also 3 to 4 cents

I only trade 1000 to 2000 per trade and make 30% to 100 % per trade
I will take 100 if i have to .... I am strict that as soon as the balance of power changes (buy sell ratio - prefereably 3 :1) Im out of there.... 100 profit or even 20 profit is better the a loss
small but steady always wins i FIND

411 trades so far this year that’s 3 per day as you only trade 3 times a week and only the first hour.

An average win of 66% for low priced stocks up to 35% average for ten cent stocks.

Only A 1.5% chance of a loss.

That is an extraordinary achievement by anyone’s standard.

I just have two questions.

1. With such incredible results why have you not increased the size of your trades.
2. Why have you only made $121,000 in that time. When I look at those figures I get something like 250,000 achievable,

 

[happytrader]

411 trades so far this year that’s 3 per day as you only trade 3 times a week and only the first hour.

An average win of 66% for low priced stocks up to 35% average for ten cent stocks.

Only A 1.5% chance of a loss.

That is an extraordinary achievement by anyone’s standard.

I just have two questions.

1. With such incredible results why have you not increased the size of your trades.
2. Why have you only made $121,000 in that time. When I look at those figures I get something like 250,000 achievable,

Trader Gavank appears to be an extremely fastidious fellow. I wonder if in fact the methods employed allow him and his students to remain undetected and 'fly under the radar'

Cheers
Happytrader

 

[wayneL]

Trader Gavank appears to be an extremely fastidious fellow. I wonder if in fact the methods employed allow him and his students to remain undetected and 'fly under the radar'

Cheers
Happytrader

LOL. We're all flying under the radar in here.