Has the 100 year Jihad (war) begun ... ???

[dutchie]

Ironic ..but sad

Channel 7 news reported that the terrorist (my definition) had been on the disability pension for 10 years.

They then went to a promo for their "Cash Cow.."

Channel 7 is a little cash cow the real cash cow is Australia. No wonder illegals want to come to Australia - cash for nothing for the rest of your life.

 

[dutchie]

The two victims are Australian heroes. They sacrificed their lives to save others.

 

[Tisme]

I wonder how the public will react when the "Muslim Community" gives our murdering mate a send off to paradise?

I also wonder if our secular authorities will ritually wash and release his body to relative in a rush to meet the sectarian wishes of his religious leaders.

Just thinking about how we seem too scared to insult a minority, but make the majority wear a greater insult these days.

 

[SirRumpole]

I wonder how the public will react when the "Muslim Community" gives our murdering mate a send off to paradise?

I also wonder if our secular authorities will ritually wash and release his body to relative in a rush to meet the sectarian wishes of his religious leaders.

Just thinking about how we seem too scared to insult a minority, but make the majority wear a greater insult these days.

Just part of being an inclusive, tolerant and multi-cultural society


I don't think being outspoken about the surge in the Muslim population is going to achieve anything much except increase division in the community.

What we need is for the people in government to slow down the immigration rate, be more selective about where we get the immigrants that we do take, and cut down on welfare benefits which are an attraction for people from certain parts of the world.

Our 'murdering mate' was apparently on a disability pension for 10 years. How many more like him ?

The above adjustments to improve security can be done quietly and without attracting much outrage from the minority. Much better than generating more division.

 

[Calliope]

SLIPPED THROUGH THE CRACKS???These are not cracks...it is an open door with a welcome mat.

Govt admits gunman slipped through cracks. His girlfriend Droudis, who has been charged with the murder of Nonis' ex-wife has also slipped betwewn the cracks so far and is as free as the breeze. Surely her bail can be revoked with the knowledge that her accessory was just a murderous thug. How much has her legal aid cost us so far? Apparently if you are a Muslim on welfare you can get unlimited legal aid.

After fleeing Iran, Monis settled in western Sydney and married Noleen Hayson Pal. It is believed the pair had two children. At some point he started calling himself Sheik Haron, although it is believed he had no religious training and Shia religious leaders publicly called on him to stop using the title.

...It is not known when Droudis came into Monis’s life, but we do know how Pal, his wife, left it — she was killed. In April 21 last year, firefighters were called to a fire in an apartment block in Werrington and found her dead in a stairwell. She had been stabbed numerous times.

Droudis was charged with her murder. Monis was charged with being an accessory, before and after the fact, in the murder of the mother of his two children. Both were eventually granted bail in December last year after a magistrate found that the case against both of them was weak.

The murder of Pal came towards the end of another long legal battle. In 2009 Monis was charged with sending offensive letters to families of Australian soldiers who had been killed in Afghanistan. It is believed he made contact with at least seven families. One of those letters was to the family of Private Greg Sher, a Jew, who had served with the 1st Commando Unit. Droudis phoned his family, days after his death, claiming she wanted to post a condolence letter. Felix Sher, the soldier’s father, said he was appalled when the letter arrived. “A Jewish man who kills innocent Muslim civilians is not a pig, he is a thousand times worse,” it said. “Why should we call a pig a hero?”]

In another incident a woman, believed to be Droudis, attended the funeral of Sergeant Brent Till, who was killed in 2009, defusing a bomb. She handed a letter to the dead soldier’s wife, Breanna Till — the letter said her husband was a murderer.

...After shopping around, Monis found lawyer Hugo Aston. Aston told him he thought he had a case for an appeal against his conviction, for sending letters to the families of dead Diggers.

“It seemed there was a case here for the High Court to determine the veracity of the legislation under which he was charged,” Aston said yesterday. “Basically, on the implied right to free speech, because not only did he send the letters to families of the deceased he also sent them to politicians.”

How much did this appeal cost? “I wouldn’t have a clue, it was all funded through the public purse, Legal Aid.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...tent-to-murderer/story-fnqxbywy-1227158732612

 

[Tisme]

is going to achieve anything much except increase division in the community.

What we need is for the people in government to slow down the immigration rate, be more selective about where we get the immigrants that we do take ..

The primary problem with being selective is who is determining what our nation wants? The public service who make these evaluations is well stocked with first gen migrants, we are supposedly a multicultural society so no dominant ethos, we have remnants of the old Oz guard channelling Arthur Calwellian times, we have a high majority catholic parliament, ....

just what is it that we Australians want and do we really want to become the monolithic Anglican colony, intolerant of anyone born outside Australia we once were?

It's not so long ago we gave the Poms billyoh for not assimilating and going on incessantly about "back home", we gave the greeks a hard time, the Italians, the Yugoslavs etc, but they had one thing in common ... they were hard workers, embraced the wider community, became patriots and didn't complain.

 

[SirRumpole]

It's not so long ago we gave the Poms billyoh for not assimilating and going on incessantly about "back home", we gave the greeks a hard time, the Italians, the Yugoslavs etc, but they had one thing in common ... they were hard workers, embraced the wider community, became patriots and didn't complain.

Indeed yes, but I think you will find that the groups you specified in general don't have a medieval ideology that stuffs their brains and interferes with their hard working and patriotic characteristics.

 

[trainspotter]

And the hand wringing has gone all the way to the top:-

TONY Abbott has declared he wants to know why Sydney hostage-taker Man Haron Monis, who he describes as a “madman”, wasn’t being monitored.
After visiting Sydney for briefings and to lay a floral tribute, the Prime Minister this morning admitted the “system did not adequately deal with this individual.”
Mr Abbott said it was a “very good question” why Monis was allowed on the street, having had a serious criminal past as well as being on bail at the time.

http://www.news.com.au/national/ton...-wasnt-monitored/story-fncynjr2-1227158943800

 

[FxTrader]

Indeed yes, but I think you will find that the groups you specified in general don't have a medieval ideology that stuffs their brains and interferes with their hard working and patriotic characteristics.

Just to be clear, the "ideology" in question is Islamic religious beliefs and claims. Using the term medieval to describe the actions and beliefs of Islamic savages is a misnomer intending yet again be an apologist for religious tradition.

Now that the Taliban have slaughtered hundreds of children in Pakistan perhaps you should consider abandoning your totally bankrupt view that religion is basically good and useful but the believers themselves are evil or mentally ill and just misinterpreting the faith or using it as an excuse to act like savages.

The majority of these duped morons sincerely BELIEVE they will inherit heaven by their actions and are quite sanctimonious in declaring so. It's time for civilized society to comprehend the true nature of the threat that fundamentalist religion poses to our way of life and stop pretending that religion is basically good for us (if not for the many millions who want to impose theocracy on the rest.)

 

[SirRumpole]

Just to be clear, the "ideology" in question is Islamic religious beliefs and claims. Using the term medieval to describe the actions and beliefs of Islamic savages is a misnomer intending yet again be an apologist for religious tradition.

Your problem is that you think religions are all the same. Anyone who thinks like the Taliban does are mentally ill, I don't believe that people who go to church on Sunday and volunteer to help those less fortunate than themselves pose any danger to society.


So just shove your "one size fits all" mentality and be prepared to use a bit of rational thinking instead of a continuous diatribe against all religion and all religious people. That sort of thinking is irrational and stupid.

 

[pavilion103]

Your problem is that you think religions are all the same. Anyone who thinks like the Taliban does are mentally ill, I don't believe that people who go to church on Sunday and volunteer to help those less fortunate than themselves pose any danger to society. So just shove your "one size fits all" mentality and be prepared to use a bit of rational thinking instead of a continuous diatribe against all religion and all religious people. That sort of thinking is irrational and stupid.

It's his standard straw man argument.

 

[Value Collector]

I don't believe that people who go to church on Sunday and volunteer to help those less fortunate than themselves pose any danger to society.


.

No, you only seem to have a problem with those that attend mosques, you seem fine with churches. :

Look, the reality of the situation is, taking any religion on faith can lead to bad things happening. Muslim styled extremism is just one factor, plenty of Charitable Christians have been lead into doing ugly things by their faith also, a short conversation with some of those church goers here will prove that.

 

[FxTrader]

Your problem is that you think religions are all the same.

No, I have never asserted this and something you have concocted out of thin air to deliberately misrepresent my statements here, a totally baseless and self-serving claim. Rather I have clearly stated on more than one occasion that some forms of religious mythology are more overtly dangerous to society than others. This thread is specifically discussing the Islamic tradition, the fundamentalist version of which is the most virulent and poisonous form of religious mythology yet invented.

Anyone who thinks like the Taliban does are mentally ill, I don't believe that people who go to church on Sunday and volunteer to help those less fortunate than themselves pose any danger to society.

It suits your apologetic mental framework to assert that all Taliban are mentally ill but it's quite obviously a false proposition. They are primarily brainwashed religious drones who are motivated by religious fervour to carry out acts of incredible violence while believing they are doing something worth dying for. You seem incapable of comprehending this and you are not alone.

As for good Samaritans doing good things for others in the name of a religion, it's quite ridiculous to suggest that I have ever implied they are a "danger to society". Fundamentalist religion however is quite harmful to society, the evidence for which is pervasive.

So just shove your "one size fits all" mentality and be prepared to use a bit of rational thinking instead of a continuous diatribe against all religion and all religious people. That sort of thinking is irrational and stupid.

Yet another ridiculous straw man argument and beat-up intended to discredit a misrepresentation of what I have said here to make a useless point and self-inflate your ego. You deliberately ignore and misrepresent what I have said here to grandstand, that's not just irrational it's dishonest and you know it. If you can't debate this topic with honesty and a modicum of integrity then why not bow out instead of making foolish, emotive statements and petty insults.

 

[SirRumpole]

Rather I have clearly stated on more than one occasion that some forms of religious mythology are more overtly dangerous to society than others. This thread is specifically discussing the Islamic tradition, the fundamentalist version of which is the most virulent and poisonous form of religious mythology yet invented.

I agree with that statement, however if you go to the Old Testament you will find passages just as violent and coercive as the Koran.

Generally the Christian religion has come out of the Middle Ages and adapted to the modern day. I would argue that Islam has gone backwards. Islam used to be a culture, with great works of art and respect for other religions and races which the Crusaders did their best to destroy by imposing their will on the "heathens".

Now we have networks of Islamic terrorists actively working to destroy the West. Some may argue whether the true motivation is religion or just power and greed.

I have always said that the prime motivation of Islamists is tribalism, the same way that criminal gangs are tribal. You either belong to my gang or you are the enemy. This is demonstrated in the hatred by Shi'ites for Sunnis and vice versa. The same motivation occured in Nazism and in the religious right mentality of George W. Bush "you are either for us or against us". Religion has something to do with it, but it's their teddy bear that the Islamists hang onto. Hitler's teddy bear was hatred for the Jews, and Aryan supremacy.

Hitler had to be defeated by a global alliance. So will Islamic terrorism. IS are a threat to other Islamic countries just as they are to the West. Just because IS are Muslims doesn't mean they whole Islamic world is on their side. If people believe that Hitler was a Christian, what religions were the countries that defeated him ?

 

[Value Collector]

IS are a threat to other Islamic countries just as they are to the West. Just because IS are Muslims doesn't mean they whole Islamic world is on their side. If people believe that Hitler was a Christian, what religions were the countries that defeated him ?

No one is saying the whole Muslim world agrees with their terrorist acts, but most Muslims would agree with a lot of the things that have lead To the I.S's fundamental views.

Eg, that the Qur'an is the infallible word of a god,

If you are going to have a billion people believing the Qur'an is the word of a god, a certain percentage will take every word literally, the fact the a majority don't hold the extreme views of the minority, in no way means the moderate views are innocent, the moderate majority support the concepts that lead to the extremism.

And the moderates can not do a thing to stop extremism, because any debate between moderates and extremists would start with the basis that their texts are 100% true and faith is a pathway to truth.

 

[basilio]

So this is clearly a very complex discussion with a number of layers.

I suggest that the growth of Islamic fundamentalism and associated terrorism activity is a response to how Middle Eastern countries have been treated/used/abused by the West. Short story as I have seen it.

In the 19th Century there was still the remains of the Ottoman empire. This stretched from Turkey to Central Europe and into the Middle East. Check out wikipedia for a excellent discussion on how the Ottoman empire was systematically dismembered over the years.

World War 1 saw the effective end of the Ottoman empire with the British, French. Italian and US governments effectively taking control of the old empire. This was centered around colonialism, control of the Suez Canal and most importantly control of Middle Easter oil reserves.

Between WW1 and WW2 the British controlled Palestine, Iraq, Egypt and strategic areas around Seuz Canal. At this stage there was also a strong push by Jews to create a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

After WW2 the push for a Jewish state become politically irresistible. Israel was established in 1948 and represented a challenge to the then resident Palestinian population. The Jews made it clear this was now their home and effectively drove out hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. These are the refugees now in Gaza, West Bank Lebanon etc

Since 1948 Israel has steadily expanded its borders through a series of successful wars. After each war it has effectively annexed conquered land and settled its citizens. To achieve this outcome the original residents have lost their homes and property. This has always happened with the political support of the US. So for 60 years Arabs (Muslims) have seen their homes and lives systematically taken by Israel with the support of the US.

They clearly were not happy with this this..

In 1953 the US and UK governments engineered the coup that overthrew the democratically elected Iran Government and installed the Shah of Iran. In one move the British and US governments retained effective control of the huge oil reserves and had "their own man" in power.

I could go on about Iraq, Saudi Arabia etc but the main point is that the West had taken control of the Middle East and over time more and more Muslims came to the view that if they wanted control over their own country they would have to fight for it.

In 2014 I suggest that fighting to have control over their own country has morphed for some groups into a pathological hatred for all things Western. It's worth checking out the references to get an idea of what has happened to these countries that has radicalized many people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_evolution_of_the_Ottoman_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th-century_history_of_Iraq
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_refugee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'état
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-role-1953-iranian-coup
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/coup53/coup53p1.php

 

[Tisme]

The trouble with the arguments in this thread today is they are so loaded down with caveats there isn't much desire to read them. There also appears to be a deliberate contrary attitude prevailing, almost like a hate vibe.

Once again I find myself coming to the aid of my long time QANDA compatriot and let it be known that SirR is a confessed theist and has never promoted organised religion, but the contrary.

There can be no denying that individuals are responsible for their actions (our laws are predicated on that), more dangerously if they flock, which is a pretty sensible empirical observation IMO ....although that could be skewed if News Corp figured in the equation.

The Peloponnesian War was an early nasty conflict based on wealth, resentment, power, tribalism and empire building ... it seems to have shifted shores frequently, but it still wages.

 

[Calliope]

I suggest that the growth of Islamic fundamentalism and associated terrorism activity is a response to how Middle Eastern countries have been treated/used/abused by the West

.
Thanks for the history lesson. Now of course the boot is on the other foot. Welfare countries like Europe and Australia, for decades now, have been the subject of an insidious invasion of Islamists like flies to a honeypot. Having found the conditions to their liking, they are breeding like flies. It's only a matter of a few decades before they will supplant us.

It is inevitable. Your worries about Israel will soon be resolved...they can't continue to exist in a cesspool of hatred. If the Iranian bomb doesn't take them out, then the ever expanding Islamist Caliphate will.

 

[noco]

Just part of being an inclusive, tolerant and multi-cultural society


I don't think being outspoken about the surge in the Muslim population is going to achieve anything much except increase division in the community.

What we need is for the people in government to slow down the immigration rate, be more selective about where we get the immigrants that we do take, and cut down on welfare benefits which are an attraction for people from certain parts of the world.

Our 'murdering mate' was apparently on a disability pension for 10 years. How many more like him ?

The above adjustments to improve security can be done quietly and without attracting much outrage from the minority. Much better than generating more division.

Division in the community is exactly what Gillard set out to do by opening the flood gates to the people smugglers.

 

[basilio]

.
Thanks for the history lesson. Now of course the boot is on the other foot. Welfare countries like Europe and Australia, for decades now, have been the subject of an insidious invasion of Islamists like flies to a honeypot. Having found the conditions to their liking, they are breeding like flies. It's only a matter of a few decades before they will supplant us.

It is inevitable. Your worries about Israel will soon be resolved...they can't continue to exist in a cesspool of hatred. If the Iranian bomb doesn't take them out, then the ever expanding Islamist Caliphate will.

Glad you liked the history lesson. I assume you avidly read all the references....and maybe learnt something ?

Congratulations also on your comment. You certainly have taken out the prize for packing in the most vitriolic comments in the least possible words. Der Fueher would be proud of you..