GTP - Great Southern Plantations

[jimmy g]

"..I have spoken with John Lawrence in Tasmania, and Fred Gulson of Dennis and Co earlier in the year when I first smelt a rat..."


I wonder if this is the same Fred Gulson mentioned in "Whistleblower Draws Judges Ire" article in the Age (searchable & available free on line) - he was a major shareholder in a company Main Camp , bought by Great Southern and is described , by his wife in this article (as appearing in the summary by Justice Rares) as "aggressive, irrational, manic, inconsiderate, inappropriate, unable to be reasoned with, impulsive and abusive. She said that some day he … will go over the top and hurt someone" .

If so , Dennis & Co may have made a very interesting decision & I hope Gulson's psychatric problems, including being an involuntary psychiatric patient (as in Justice Rares summary) are being monitored

 

[The Shadow]

Interesting Offer!!

Check it out at

http://www.pulpwoodplantations.com.au/

Lets hope there are more offers to come???

 

[drsmith]

Interesting Offer!!

It will be interesting to see how much the want to clip from the harvest proceeds in return for their investment.

It is also interesting that the offer does not extend to the 2004 or later projects. Have they concluded that the harvest proceeds from those projects would not be sufficient to justify the investment required to maintain them and make a return on that investment for themselves ?

 

[SDE]

Interesting Offer!!

Check it out at

http://www.pulpwoodplantations.com.au/

Lets hope there are more offers to come???

Yeah, I'm sure that they will promise a great deal, just like those thieves at Great Southern did.

Why??

Check out who is on the board of Pulpwood Plantation.

None other than Phil Butlin.

Remember Phil?

He, and his mate Cameron, brought you Project Transform, when they were both on the board of Great Southern. You know, that great scheme where you exchanged your MIS interests (worth something) for shares in Great Southern (worth nothing)


This is the same pair that are getting sued for their role in the cattle rustling ruse.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/business/a/-/national/5810257/rhodes-cole-named-in-great-southern-cattle-writ/


Like his young mate, he's coming back for a second bite. This bloke has no shame and no conscious.

http://www.pulpwoodplantations.com.au/about-pulpwood-plantations/board-and-management

 

[tally-ho]

Re: Legal Action for Cattle Projects

I have paid Dennis & Co the advance fee - but not signed authority yet. I have also been approached by IMF and could sign up with their class action, which is obviously proceeding earlier and has only a fee if won.

Is anybody in the same situation and if yes what have you decided and why? Or would it even be advisable to join both actions?

I think the cut-off date for IMF is very close now, so I hope to get some replies from other cattle investors.

 

[GumbyLearner]

Gumby Learner rolls a smoke with Tally-Ho papers and Drum tobacco

Was Brian Burke one of the failures involved in this scheme?

That's right Brian Burke former Premier of Western Australia. I'm sure Bendigo should have sympathy for him under the circumstances (diamonds aside)

 

[Johnathon123]

Re: Legal Action for Cattle Projects

I have paid Dennis & Co the advance fee - but not signed authority yet. I have also been approached by IMF and could sign up with their class action, which is obviously proceeding earlier and has only a fee if won.

Is anybody in the same situation and if yes what have you decided and why? Or would it even be advisable to join both actions?

I think the cut-off date for IMF is very close now, so I hope to get some replies from other cattle investors.

I have also paid D & C but for the trees. Not yet signed the authority.

His letter suggests he plans to commence action against the GS entities (all in administration) To me this seems a little futile given they have no money - Anyone else have a thought

 

[Forenth]

Interesting Offer!!

Check it out at

http://www.pulpwoodplantations.com.au/

Lets hope there are more offers to come???

I notice they have an offer to come out 24/8/09. What if the receivers decide to continue the projects to harvest? Its obvious they've been putting effort into their scheme on the assumption the projects will be wound up. Does this new group, Butlin included, know something not yet announced? Do they know someone involved in the decision making process very well? Its hard to decide who to trust...

As a 2000 investor I'm pretty sure that project did not involve any leased land, I wonder if this new offer will try to include costs for leases.

Watch the skies...

 

[The Shadow]

Beware the Wolf in Sheeps Clothing!!!

Further to my previous post on the proposal by Pulpwood Plantations and to air some of the concerns already posted by others, Growers should be very wary of this proposal given the involvement of the CEO - Mr Butlin (aka Project Transform).

Depending on the age or year of your project this group is seeking to charge a fee between 2% and upto 34% recoverable from grower proceeds. This effectively means they will make an absolute packet once again at the expense of the Grower.

Is it just a coincidence that Mr Butlin finds himself on the board of this company?? Is he using all the information supplied to GS by KMPG? Too me it looks like he has gone from Cattle rustling to Tree rustling.

And wait for it.....any minute now we will see Investor1 reappear to tell us what a fantastic deal this is!!!

Fellow growers think and think hard is this a viable way for us to go? or are we to be done over again by the ex Great Sthn Executives???

I understand that there may be other proposals in the wind lets just hope like hell that they dont involve Messrs Rhodes or Young behind them.

 

[Forenth]

Notice how the Pulpwood Plantations website bears an uncanny resemblance to Great Southern's?

Another thing for investors to remember is that any offer by Pulpwood Plantations, or anyone else, to manage projects for a share of growers' proceeds is that growers' proceeds are what's left AFTER costs for harvesting, processing and selling are taken out. Under GTP this was around 50% of woodchip sales (that $207 / t) and any new entity can invent any price they like for this (Though GTP have stated several times in $ terms what these costs are, check your documents).

So when you agree to something you may find that your share of growers' proceeds is a VERY small proportion of the woodchip value. No matter who takes over the projects the growers will be short changed, but its a question of by how much and by whom.

 

[drsmith]

And wait for it.....any minute now we will see Investor1 reappear to tell us what a fantastic deal this is!!!

I can't see Investor1 making another contribution as such. Perhaps something more along the lines of Investor2 me thinks.

 

[goodie3shoes]

"I understand that there may be other proposals in the wind lets just hope like hell that they dont involve Messrs Rhodes or Young behind them."
Funny thing,The Rat Rhodes (and a heap of other ex-GTP STAFF) is behind a proposal to 'salvage' the grape harvest for investors.This pack of 'conmen' just don't give up do they? I suggest caution when dealing with anyone previously associated with this 'Titanic'. Can the boat be sunk twice? I reckon these guys are so 'crooked or incompetant' that they just might be able to sink the bugger again.

 

[wooduk]

This article is nothing short of legal theft,and you the investor are stuffed with a loan repayment plus the on going insurancw for trees that will never see a return that you expected.
In essence all the legal argie bargie that us as investors have gone to pay for justice in this scam will come to nothing and at best I surmise that you will be grateful to at the very least accept a pittance.
Unless growers cut to the chase with this legal ponzi and take the receivers and the administrator to the high court to stop this,advisers,investors and mostly everyone who tipped into this scam are losers.
The banks have gone to each of the states supreme court to get,or tell the legal system in their roll that they the banks are the the entity that by legal switcheroo can do what they like with your property,that project transform could not.
In short as I have posted before,it is like someone walking through your front door while you are having tea with your family,and walking over to your cabinet where your wallet sits unannouced and removing money out of your wallet and walking straight out the door and it is legal.




Great Southern go-ahead for loanLeonie Wood
August 18, 2009 .
IN SOME parts of western Victoria, there are so many eucalyptus plantations that the highways seem to be walled with dark green carpet.

It's a phenomenon Justice Ross Robson of the Victorian Supreme Court probably suffers in his own courtroom; one day he is asked to rule on the failed Timbercorp group and the next he is grappling with bankrupt Great Southern Plantations.

He can't seem to get away from the companies. As the judge told counsel yesterday, his weekend drive took him down a long highway flanked on one side by huge stands of timber owned by Timbercorp and on the other by forests belonging to Great Southern.

Yesterday it was Great Southern's turn in court and, after several hours Justice Robson gave a preliminary green light for receivers of the ruined group to borrow yet more funds from three of Great Southern's four secured financiers that are already owed about $380 million.

The banks have agreed to pour another $45 million into Great Southern to ensure that the company's receivers have enough funds to protect and maintain Great Southern's vast timber, almond, olive and vineyard investment schemes until mid-2010.

The court heard Great Southern's receivers had no funds to pay rent for the land the crops are on, or to pay for fertiliser, water, pest control, fencing, firebreaks, road maintenance and harvesting. The employee bill alone is expected to top $6 million this year.

Norman O'Bryan, SC, for Great Southern's receivers, told the court there was ''no guarantee'' the $45 million would be recovered and the banks knew it was ''a risk''.

''On the other hand you have the practical certainty that if you did not spend this money, or some part of it, these schemes will literally and metaphorically wither on the vine,'' Mr O'Bryan said.

Justice Robson also gave a preliminary indication that the receivers could issue a lien to the banks, allowing them to secure the new loan against the assets of the schemes - the harvest proceeds - a security that would come before payments to Great Southern's 40,000 investor-growers.

In an affidavit filed by Great Southern receiver James Thackray of McGrathNicol, the court heard the receivers found disentangling the books and records of the responsible entity had been an extremely difficult task.

The receivers told the court that instead of attributing income and expenses to individual schemes, Great Southern's group accounts bundled income and expenses according to what type of crop was being grown.

Justice Robson said the receivers' description indicated the records were ''a mess''.

Source: The Age

 

[Forenth]

The banks have agreed to pour another $45 million into Great Southern to ensure that the company's receivers have enough funds to protect and maintain Great Southern's vast timber, almond, olive and vineyard investment schemes until mid-2010.

If this is the case then wouldn't this mean that the 1998, 1999 and probably 2000 projects are basically ready to harvest and don't require any further inputs from anyone else, including Phil Butlin and his Pulpwood Plantation mates? (I believe 1998 is already harvested but hasn't been distributed fully, dunno about 1999).

So why not harvest 1999 and 2000 next year? The costs for doing so were already built into the project and as far as I know the market is still there. I don't believe any of these projects have lease expenses either.

Does anyone know if replacing the RE protects projects from the banks' claims against GTP?

 

[wooduk]

In an affidavit filed by Great Southern receiver James Thackray of McGrathNicol, the court heard the receivers found disentangling the books and records of the responsible entity had been an extremely difficult task.

The receivers told the court that instead of attributing income and expenses to individual schemes, Great Southern's group accounts bundled income and expenses according to what type of crop was being grown.

Justice Robson said the receivers' description indicated the records were ''a mess''.

Source: The Age[/QUOTE]

 

[bv2726]

Justice Robson said the receivers' description indicated the records were ''a mess''.

Source: The Age

[/QUOTE]

Don't you get in trouble if you run a company and don't keep accurate records? Maybe I am being too simplistic, but I thought all that "oogie boogie" stuff on the ATO website that says "we will get you and throw you in jail if you don't do a good job as a director blah blah" was real? Maybe it is but only for small tiny companies...or its just there to scare people off.

And if a company is listed on the ASX, isn't there more "monitoring" that goes on? Aren't there more "responsibilities" and "more severe penalties" if you dont follow the rules?

I know, I am dreaming.

 

[SDE]

Don't you get in trouble if you run a company and don't keep accurate records? Maybe I am being too simplistic, but I thought all that "oogie boogie" stuff on the ATO website that says "we will get you and throw you in jail if you don't do a good job as a director blah blah" was real? Maybe it is but only for small tiny companies...or its just there to scare people off.

And if a company is listed on the ASX, isn't there more "monitoring" that goes on? Aren't there more "responsibilities" and "more severe penalties" if you dont follow the rules?

I know, I am dreaming.

Ernst&Young, the company and MIS auditors, may well have disciplinary and civil cases to answer.

I see that the auditors of Westpoint (KPMG) were banned by ASIC and are potentially facing several law suits for their role in Westpoint's collapse

 

[jiml]

I don't think the accounting processes used were illegal, merely sloppy and based upon a view GTP managers would never be brought to account, ie the company would not fall over. Apparently the provision of no-recourse loans to directors was also legal using shareholders assets. I suppose in the end it didn't matter as the company by that stage was well and truly rooted. Hopefully, and I say only hopefully, ASIC may regulate against directors setting their own salaries and dipping their snout into shareholder funds for no-recourse loans without the consent or approval of shareholders...

 

[Forenth]

The Pulpwood Plantations letter arrived today and I've sent off some questions to info@pppl.com.au. Now to wait and see if they answer...


Dear PPPL,

Today I have received your letter regarding your proposal to replace the responsible entity of Great Southern's plantations, 1998 - 2003. There has already been some discussion regarding PPPL and I have some questions regarding your proposal, if you would please respond that would be helpful:

- The receivers of Great Southern have already successfully applied to the courts for $45 million to maintain the projects until mid 2010, money which will be recouped from woodchip sales. Does PPPL's proposal include this maintenance or replace it? I would be concerned if the receivers will take this value from the projects and PPPL would want to be compensated for the same time period.

- As a 2000 project grower I can see that mid 2010 is close to harvest of the 2000 project. What % of revenue is PPPL seeking for taking over the 2000 project? PPPL's figures published online say anywhere from 2 to 34%. What is the actual figure for the 2000 project, and is this of gross sales or of final distribution to growers (after harvesting, chipping and all other costs)?

- When does PPPL envisage harvesting the 2000 project?

I accept that as a business PPPL is looking to make money from its proposal, and while the proposal is certainly interesting there are not many details being provided. Before considering any offer it would be prudent to know exactly what PPPL will do, and what exactly PPPL will require in return. Details was one thing Great Southern did not do very well.

If you wish to contact me then please feel free and I look forward to your responses to my queries.

Thanks and regards,

 

[Forenth]

After 3 days I got a reply, but from my own mail server:

"Unable to deliver message to the following recipients, due to being unable to connect successfully to the destination mail server."

Maybe they don't want any questions. So where's the offer, their website is still blank about it.