GTP - Great Southern Plantations

[Miner]

Charlie A from Southern Equities recommended GTP as buy in Eureka Report on 20th Jul.

I am unsure to put money on this failed company but Charlie A is a shrewed broker. Is he ramping for his clients to sell

 

[remoteone]

Remoteone,
Sounds easy and profitable, until you realize that sugar gum, a much better burning wood, sells for $10-15 per m3 as standing trees to the firewood merchants, who then cut, split and dry it, then retail it for ~$90-$100 delivered. This happening in the green triangle area.
brty

I admit that I have not as gotten quotes from contractors. but blue gum can sell for around $200 /ton retail here in the Adelaide hills. Red Gum is up to $280/ton) Having the area to store and personal resources to advertise and deliver the firewood myself, i would primarily need to contact a company to log/cut/split and deliver. I'd do the rest. Its not something for everyone, but given my current financial situation and resources, its certainly worth looking into.
The first issue to clarify is weather I am legally able to log my trees.
Have any other growers done this?

 

[remoteone]

Hello,
This is my 1st post on this forum.
I am a Beef Cattle 2007 investor.
So far I haven't approached any legal firm.
My question is:
Can I participate in some legal option so that my loan is written off?
I don't wish to get compensation, I just want get out of this mess.
I don't want to be paying loan for something I don't have.
Are the lawyers trying to persue this outcome?
Thanks.

Contact Tim McLernon at 400942@imf.com.au
or Brian Burke at brianburke@amnet.net.au
IMF are funding action against GS regarding the Cattle projects

 

[remoteone]

Hello,
This is my 1st post on this forum.
I am a Beef Cattle 2007 investor.
So far I haven't approached any legal firm.
My question is:
Can I participate in some legal option so that my loan is written off?
I don't wish to get compensation, I just want get out of this mess.
I don't want to be paying loan for something I don't have.
Are the lawyers trying to persue this outcome?
Thanks.

Contact Tim McLernon at 400942@imf.com.au
or Brian Burke at brianburke@amnet.net.au
IMF are funding action against GS regarding the Cattle projects

 

[remoteone]

The Iwc is the Independent Woodgrowers Co-Op,there are several posts that make mention of it ....

Wooduk,
I searched the forum and drew a blank for "IWC" and "Independent Woodgrowers Co-Op" apart from your post. Can you throw me a bigger bone perhaps?

 

[wooduk]

Wooduk,
I searched the forum and drew a blank for "IWC" and "Independent Woodgrowers Co-Op" apart from your post. Can you throw me a bigger bone perhaps?

R-1,apart from what I have stated and what you have posted with contacts to my accountant Townsend Prudential and what I have briefly described of who and what we are,and the fact the the game is to run the trees and own the land which means investors hitting their kick and owning a unit or actually a portion of land with the trees on it,it is as simple as that ---well not quite,as there are the legal issues and getting it moving and bringing the liquidator to his senses like timbercorp have moved.

That is why I have been reluctant to go after advisers and accountants as they are in the same boat as us,

The advisers and accountants have I reckon a fall back and that is what was presented to them.After all look at KPMG,did not earlier there were to be issues with them,but even a nobody like me found it odd not to find a definitve valuation,so how do you go a a little operator.

The entry and continual barrage by the media that it was a tax rort is and was wrong,if it was why did not the financial and business sections of the Fairfax and other astute media outlets say so?,now that that the media says it was a tax rort,can we litigate against the media for not investigating this as they are now canning it,where at the beginning they heap praises of it being,innovative boost for the agri industry,beneficial to communities and regional areas,trees value adding on fallow ground .blah,blah,blah

No, the media is not your friend,the R.E. now and the liquidator is not your friend,the farmers are now not your friend,ASIC is not and never was your saviour or friend,

At the end of the day,we need to consolidate as a collective and stick together and organise to take the a scheme and if a enough get into this we get another.Remember the trees are their and they are yours,your property----remember that when they send or knock on the door to tell you we are going to take your property

 

[remoteone]

Wooduk,
I'm not joining any class/group actions against GS or TC or the advisers regarding timber plantations, but I am looking seriously into IMF's litigation against GTP for unlawfull conduct regarding the Cattle Project I have lost. For the Cattle, I see no other option at this stage.

 

[wooduk]

Wooduk,
I'm not joining any class/group actions against GS or TC or the advisers regarding timber plantations, but I am looking seriously into IMF's litigation against GTP for unlawfull conduct regarding the Cattle Project I have lost. For the Cattle, I see no other option at this stage.

R-1 You do what is right for you and hope it works out well.I noticed on H/C that investors are going after the advisers and promoters,in some way there is a method in the madness that a paper trail that leads to GTP front door will possibly vindicate the issue.I still beleive there is more in this ,from the point of view that directors were still promoting diatribe weeks before the collapse of GTP,anecdooootal evidence in media papers with short quotes from Ikin and another from hackett in to things have are great are an inference either I do'nt give a stuff or I believe my propaganda.

In the cattle it is criminal charges that have to break this whole scenario,here is something to think or better research and come back and tell us.

Jamie Packers consolidated holdings was in the cattle investment?

How long ?

What was the bid that consolidated holdings made for the cattle farms?

The point is that there is a need for a royal commission into the cattle at the very least.It is ironic that I reckon that cattle are the key to this seeing that I as one never invested in it .

Bring the cattle down and the rest falls

 

[Avi]

Any idea why are law firms taking so long to decide what action they want to take against GTP?
IMF is an exception, as they have 24th July as the cut-off date to participate in joint action.

 

[wooduk]

Hirst feels the heat as Bendigo investors

Print Adel Ferguson | July 13, 2009
Article from: The Australian
WHEN news erupted last week that the Bank of Queensland was facing legal action over its owner-manager model, it gave angry shareholders in some of Bendigo and Adelaide Bank's 238 community lenders food for thought.

Six former NSW franchisees decided to take action against BoQ and various officers, alleging the owner-manager model is flawed. At Bendigo Bank, a few shareholders in some poorly performing community banks are looking at ways to get their own back.

It comes as Bendigo, already under pressure to protect its $615 million exposure to 8200 customers who poured money into the collapsed Great Southern managed investment scheme, is struggling with funding pressures related to the global financial crisis and the government guarantee on wholesale funding.

It also comes as the market questions the $1.37 billion goodwill sitting on its balance sheet from the acquisition of Adelaide Bank less than two years ago.
The bank closed off its accounts on June 30, but not before making a sharp revision to its full-year earnings back in April, citing overall funding pressures and factors relating to its 2007 Adelaide Bank merger. It was Adelaide Bank that exposed it to managed investment schemes such as Great Southern. [/B]It is a mess that Bendigo's newly appointed chief executive Mike Hirst will have to deal with. Less than two weeks into the top job, Hirst has received letters from investors refusing to pay principal and interest on loans taken out to finance investments in Great Southern managed investment schemes. He will also receive letters from interested watchers about the community banks.
In the case of the $615m loans owed by Great Southern investors, Bendigo faces years of messy legal action and negative publicity. In the case of the community banking model, only time will tell how it all pans out. Right now, the message from the bank is that the model works, most shareholders are happy, it has 70 campaigns under way and expects to open 20 branches this financial year.

But behind the spin the picture is not so pretty for many of the struggling community branches. The way the model works is the 238 community banks operate under a franchise arrangement, in which the local community owns and operates a branch and the bank provides all the infrastructure and support. The community company and Bendigo split the branch revenue 50-50, and the community branch pays 100 per cent of the expenses, including an annual franchise fee.

Bendigo doesn't readily separate the earnings of the community banks, the number of loans it has made to the community banks, or whether that has increased in the past 12 months. But a retired auditor, who asked not to be named, has taken it upon himself to study the performance of all the franchises to ascertain the true state of affairs.

His findings are illuminating. Total funds raised over the 10 years to June 30, 2008, was $112m, revenue collected by Bendigo was $116m in the year to June 30, and $112m for the banks, against total profit of $20m. Loans to community banks from Bendigo was $10m.

The investigation also revealed that 14 of the banks were basket cases, with negative equity, 32 had poor working capital and many relied on Bendigo & Adelaide Bank loans to stay alive. They include Augusta (Margaret River), Dimboola, Donnybrook/Capel, Edenhope, Flemington, Fremantle, Homebush in NSW, Kingsway, Mt Gambier, Mukinbudin, Narrandera, Pingelly/Brookton, Robe and Wyong.

It found that over 100 community banks that opened before 2006 had lost a good portion of their equity raised, while all but 23 branches made a profit for 2008. Another 40 that opened between 2006 and 2008 made a loss, though some had only opened in the last year.

According to Bendigo, the number of community banks that achieved net profit before tax at June 2008 was 115, and of those 46 had fully recovered the initial equity put in by shareholders to create the bank. Of the 115, 71 recorded a profit of $100,000 or less.

Bendigo naturally argues that the model works. It argues the strategy was in response to a vacuum created by the withdrawal of bank branches from "hundreds of Australian communities in the 1990s", its spokesman says.

"Community Bank has never been promoted (look at any prospectus or go to any community meeting) as a high capital growth venture, where 'equity' and 'NTA' defines it success," a spokesman says.

But the small profit made by Bendigo from the community banks, despite the fees and 50 per cent revenue it takes from the banks, goes a long way to explaining why the big four abandoned many areas: they are too small, make too little money for the effort involved and make internet banking a much cheaper option.

Robe Community Bank, which was created in 2003 -- six years ago -- is one of many that are yet to make a profit, never mind pay a dividend. Robe Mayor William Peden, a shareholder in the Robe Community Bank, wrote to former chief executive Rob Hunt on numerous occasions outlining his concerns. The bank retaliated by taking out full-page ads in the local paper.

Peden claims Robe Community Bank has lost $699,000 over the first five years of the franchise while Bendigo made a gross profit of $683,000 from the operation over the same period.

Peden says that in the 2002 prospectus for the Robe branch, the worst-case scenario predicted a loss of $77,000 in the first three years. In the year to June 2008, five years into the bank's life, it made a loss far worse than the worst-case scenario of $89,000. "We were told in the prospectus by the chairman of the community bank that investing in the community bank has solid prospects of generating positive returns for investors. The chairman then said: 'I commend this investment to you.' He didn't say it would be 'a donation with no return', which is what it has become," Peden says.

In light of the litigation that has erupted between the Bank of Queensland and a number of franchisees over alleged misrepresentation of running a bank as a viable business, it wouldn't be a big leap to think Bendigo could face a few issues.

But the bank thinks not. Nor is the bank concerned about its $615m exposure to Great Southern through its 8200 customers. In a statement to the ASX on Friday, it warns borrowers that they have to keep paying back their loans despite the managed investment scheme's collapse. "We have loaned money invested with us by depositors and shareholders and they have every reason to expect us to pursue our rights."

Indeed. The only fly in the ointment, and it could end up being a very big and irritating fly, is the loan assignments. Some of the loans were issued by Great Southern Finance and subsequently "sold" or assigned to Bendigo.

Some lawyers have been hired to try to build a case that the actions of Great Southern Finance rendered the loan transactions unlawful, either on its own behalf or on behalf of Bendigo. If they are successful, it could get ugly for Bendigo. Either way, it faces a lot of bad PR and litigation in the next few years. To put it into perspective, Bendigo has a $40bn loan book, and $615m represents about 1.5 per cent of that book. If Bendigo is forced to write off $100m in bad and doubtful debts from the MIS schemes, it would effectively wipe out the group's cash earnings. Between tough credit markets, the Great Southern exposure and potential problems brewing in community branches, Hirst has his work cut out for him.
Story Tools

 

[bv2726]

Anyone have an opinion or comment on the notice today that Cameron Rhodes has resigned as a Director of GTP? Is this a procedure thing? Or does it mean GTP is closing officially?

Just wondering. I noticed that Mr Rhodes has loads and loads of shares and options etc. I am pretty sure that its correct to say that they are collectively worth $0.00 ?

 

[The Shadow]

Just wondering. I noticed that Mr Rhodes has loads and loads of shares and options etc. I am pretty sure that its correct to say that they are collectively worth $0.00 ?

bv2726,

You are correct his shares are worth zip!!! But don't feel to sorry for him cause he got his larde salary and dividends.

 

[MugPunter]

OK...now I'm geeting worried. I have a couple of previous years tranches of trees with GTP (and TIM), and don't know if or how much I'm going to get back on my investment. The real kicker, however, is that despite assurances from my FP to the contrary, a loan I signed for in April 2009 for 2009 trees has been forwarded by Bendigo Bankto GTP, with funds being kept in trust by NAB- they won't release the loan (they are creditors?), Bendigo refuse to can the loan, and all the time I'm accruing interest on a loan against no investment.

Is anyone else in the same situation? I don't know much about this sort of thing, but surely there must be some mechanism whereby a loan is not forwarded to a company in receivership?

Any advice? Legal people are onto it, but I'm not sleeping so well...

 

[Forenth]

OK...now I'm geeting worried. I have a couple of previous years tranches of trees with GTP (and TIM), and don't know if or how much I'm going to get back on my investment. The real kicker, however, is that despite assurances from my FP to the contrary, a loan I signed for in April 2009 for 2009 trees has been forwarded by Bendigo Bankto GTP, with funds being kept in trust by NAB- they won't release the loan (they are creditors?), Bendigo refuse to can the loan, and all the time I'm accruing interest on a loan against no investment.

Is anyone else in the same situation? I don't know much about this sort of thing, but surely there must be some mechanism whereby a loan is not forwarded to a company in receivership?

Any advice? Legal people are onto it, but I'm not sleeping so well...

IMHO, if funds haven't been released for the purpose they were for then the loan hasn't been drawn down, and so interest shouldn't be charged. If anyone involved is keeping any funds then you shouldn't be liable for it, and if they somehow make you then they should be liable for your costs. You should check your loan agreement to see if it says anything about this situation, but I'd be fighting it and seeking costs.

PS. All that blah blah about getting independent advice, I'm no professional advisor etc.

 

[Forenth]

There are still a lot of people looking to make $ out of this mess at everyone else's expense.

Is John Young in gaol yet or is he still trying to cash in on the disaster he created?

 

[Terra]

Hey, this guy is still pushing GTP as an investment. Check his web site - google 'Paul O'Connor Investments'.

 

[MugPunter]

Needs to update his web-site!

Also, I don't understand how it's possible (and why a person would) buy GTP now (post above re Eureka report 20th July-I couldn't actuallly find the article). Can anyone explain this? Could GTP shares actually still be worth something?

 

[bv2726]

Charlie A from Southern Equities recommended GTP as buy in Eureka Report on 20th Jul.

I am unsure to put money on this failed company but Charlie A is a shrewed broker. Is he ramping for his clients to sell

Is this "article" from a previous year or something? Is this post a repeat from somewhere?

I would really like to see what Charlie A recommended about GTP early on...no doubt it would be a buy.

Charlie A also recommended CBA as a buy buy buy buy buy from Early 2007 until about mid-late 2008. Everything was a buy from Charlie A all through 2007 and 2008. (And we know what happened). All through the first half of 2008 was "it will bounce back, this is just a correction" blah blah blah.

All of this was in the Eureka report - funny, thats why I didnt renew...

(And I never saw any articles in Eureka saying not to buy Cattle or Trees from GTP or Timbercorp or....)....

 

[Bugsy]

I'm an investor in the 2008 Woodlot plantation project. I was wondering if someone could tell me if I stand any chance of getting out of this mess -- I wasn't provided with the 'financial advice' from the financial planner ie i didn't sign any 'investment without advice' statement... I'm currently making repayments to Bendigo Bank.. for the next 4 years - I hope not.

 

[SDE]

I'm an investor in the 2008 Woodlot plantation project. I was wondering if someone could tell me if I stand any chance of getting out of this mess -- I wasn't provided with the 'financial advice' from the financial planner ie i didn't sign any 'investment without advice' statement... I'm currently making repayments to Bendigo Bank.. for the next 4 years - I hope not.

Suggest you approach one of the legal firms that are considering initiating class actions.

http://www.mk.com.au/documents/TimbercorpMR.pdf

http://www.slatergordon.com.au/pages/class_actions_great_southern_timbercorp.aspx

Good luck!