GTP - Great Southern Plantations

[bv2726]

GTPs share price seems on a road to nowhere.

Slowly, it appears people are offloading (or capitulating) their shareholding. (Or something else). What do to here? I have shares thanks to my cattle being stolen from me...I just dont know when to sell out.

The start of this week, the shares were 15cents...today, they are sitting at 11 cents.

At this rate...two more weeks....and...zero.

Stupid. I should get what I can for them while I can.....

 

[Junior]

Their AGM release today was total rubbish. No mention of Growers/Investors and what their returns will be like. Just 10 pages of BS relating to strengthening their balance sheet.

 

[SDE]

Their AGM release today was total rubbish. No mention of Growers/Investors and what their returns will be like. Just 10 pages of BS relating to strengthening their balance sheet.

What I found particularly amusing in this AGM release was this piece from CR

"Our company has been built on the back of a very successful managed investment scheme business and this business within the broader agricultural funds management sector will continue to provide opportunities for our company."

Successful for whom? Certainly not the MIS investors! I think CR's deluded if he thinks there are going to be many punters lining up to be screwed by GS again

 

[gorillapolice]

GTPs share price seems on a road to nowhere.

Slowly, it appears people are offloading (or capitulating) their shareholding. (Or something else). What do to here? I have shares thanks to my cattle being stolen from me...I just dont know when to sell out.

The start of this week, the shares were 15cents...today, they are sitting at 11 cents.

At this rate...two more weeks....and...zero.

Stupid. I should get what I can for them while I can.....

As I see it, those who had their cattle converted to shares have been dealt a huge blow to the head.

However, in terms of whether to sell your shares or not, you need to consider a few things:-

The initial investment was over a period of 8 years, with income paid for 6 of those years (3rd year right through to end of the 8th). If you were to sell your shares now, not only would you realise a massive, massive paper loss, but would be simply cutting down what was originally an 8 year investment into a 2-3 year investment.

Given the current market value, I personally would be keeping mine for the time being (if I had any) - given the current market situation and assuming the old cliche that 'things can only get better'.

Most people forget that it's an 8 year investment, they just see a massive initial paper loss after their investment has been converted to shares and panic - they end up selling them off and jumping ship, essentially aborting what was supposed to be another 5 years of investment period.

People need to calculate their options carefully, dot their i's and cross their t's and not panic and go on a sale frenzy simply because they feel gutted that they've got shares for beef.

However, I still fail to see where the 'Transformation' is coming from within the company. It seems to me like it's just the same old management with a whole new spin - they couldn't do it right before, why would they be able to do it now? That's the question i'd be asking if I were anyone remotely involved in this company.

 

[bv2726]

The initial investment was over a period of 8 years, with income paid for 6 of those years (3rd year right through to end of the 8th). If you were to sell your shares now, not only would you realise a massive, massive paper loss, but would be simply cutting down what was originally an 8 year investment into a 2-3 year investment.

Given the current market value, I personally would be keeping mine for the time being (if I had any) - given the current market situation and assuming the old cliche that 'things can only get better'.

Most people forget that it's an 8 year investment, they just see a massive initial paper loss after their investment has been converted to shares and panic - they end up selling them off and jumping ship, essentially aborting what was supposed to be another 5 years of investment period.

People need to calculate their options carefully, dot their i's and cross their t's and not panic and go on a sale frenzy simply because they feel gutted that they've got shares for beef.

However, I still fail to see where the 'Transformation' is coming from within the company. It seems to me like it's just the same old management with a whole new spin - they couldn't do it right before, why would they be able to do it now? That's the question i'd be asking if I were anyone remotely involved in this company.

Some good points to think about there Gorillapolice. Thanks for the post.

I didnt think about the 8 years bit.

 

[SDE]

GP

The initial intention of the investment may have been over 8 years. A lot of MIS investors would have structured their affairs to accomodate this.

Cash flow during the course of the project would cover the tax liability as it became due. Due to Project Transform, the tax liability will now arise in this financial year.

Where do you suggest that the money to pay this tax liability will come from?

Do you pay with cash from other sources and hope that GTP shares increase in value, or do you sell your shares to pay your tax becomes due?

 

[wooduk]

Why would you think that story is not newsworthy? Timing is the key to success. There will be tax time stories.... and warnings to save people from making the same mistakes will become very relevant then.

Most fun will be, it will piss GTP off big time, because it stops new money coming in from new dummies and the old dummies (that's us) aren't buying anymore.

All those people with a heartbreaking story, put it down on a piece of paper now, so it's ready to send in when needed. Maybe someone knows a way how we can coordinate the timing of it amongst ourselves.

U R rite T.H. timing is the key and another thought is to realise that most if not all of the comments on gtp are about basically destroying or getting even with the directors for what they have scammed,our turn to legally skin or flay them alive is coming,possibly in afew weeks,so let it run it's course and if you like write to the gtp management for ALL the names of the investors in your investment (not the list recently made with fewer names)the original list of YOUR mis investors in the product you signed up to.

I would be waiting to read what you are told:bs:

 

[Forenth]

If anyone wants to publicise anything about GSL and Project StealFromYourCustomersEvenIfTheyDon'tAgree then stage a protest outside the AGM, if you can get there. Make a sign and march on the pavement. If there happened to be an unfortunate scuffle of some kind then that might get more media coverage, lol.

But seriously, protest outside and not only ask how customers/investors can have their investment seized against their will and how 50c can be seen as a fair price, but also how the directors only weeks later can be allowing themselves to exchange their financial interests (income) for shares at a real VWAP, no floor price of 50c. Surely this double standard has to raise eyebrows.

There are enough people out there who haven't heard, and enough financial advisors who are willing to cooperate, to enable them to fleece a whole new crop of investors.

 

[Forenth]

Oh and remember, as a lot of us have suspected its highly likely someone from GSL is reading this forum.

Smile for us Cameron, Phillip, David, Alice, John, Peter, Mervyn, Neil, Simon or Julian! At least one of you is here...

 

[bv2726]

There are enough people out there who haven't heard, and enough financial advisors who are willing to cooperate, to enable them to fleece a whole new crop of investors.

I tend to agree that this is quite plausible.

Here is my situation - if new MIS investors are duped into handing over money this year for trees, especially the feelgood high value timber employing people in the top parts of Australia...then...potentially...my stolen Cattle shares will go up. (As GTP earns some money).

I also have trees with great southern (I was really sucked in)...so I want the company to keep going...and pay me for the trees. When they mature.

So, now, although I hate what has happened...here I am thinking, and in an ironic way hoping, that there is a heap of new investors and great southern are actually successful so I can get some money back.

 

[ThePav]

Did anyone read the AGM release? Now wasn't that an inspiring read? Reading between the lines you'd think they're saying we're lost and we don't know what to do.

Should you hold or sell? It's up to you but there are two key events approaching that will largely determine the fate of GTP - The June 30 MIS sales and the loan refinancing in September. If both of these go well then I'd expect the share price to rise. If either goes badly then you probably get about 20c in the dollar after creditors have ravaged the assets. Unfortunately their is still too much uncertainty about the future of this company to attract new investors and hence boost the share price. Personally I think holding a position with Great Southern means that you are losing out on better opportunities that are elsewhere in the market. But selling at 11c would be painful.

Certainly either way you look at your sure to wish that you had never heard of Great Southern.

 

[pist'n broke]

Did anyone read the AGM release? Now wasn't that an inspiring read? Reading between the lines you'd think they're saying we're lost and we don't know what to do.

Certainly either way you look at your sure to wish that you had never heard of Great Southern.

Yes, about 40 000 investors will agree, some might sell just to be done with GTP.
It's unlikely that GTP will get much MIS investment this year. Cattle project sales should help in loan refinancing though.

As I understand it, the new shareholders will have to pay income tax for their worthless shares (valued at either the VWAP or even the 50 cents floor price) this year, selling or not. At the current share price most will recover less than tax due.

Then again, they could always invest in a new GTP MIS to reduce tax & save GTP from collapse.
These directors are smart devils! Nobody has ever lost money betting on the stupidity of suckers.:bonk:

 

[Forenth]

I see all the directors' share issues were passed easily except for Cameron Rhodes, who had someone with 55 million shares vote no instead of yes. I wonder who hates him that much... besides his newly press ganged investors, woops.. I mean shareholders.

He almost missed out...

He also says they acquired $64 million of forestry assets which will yield over $125 million in net harvest proceeds.

If they issued 131369007 shares and they will net $125 million then that's just over $0.92/share. So the 4958 shares they offered for my 2000 woodlots makes each net $4717. That's net proceeds not gross, due in about 2-3 years time. To me net means after costs... ready for distribution, right?

So if my woodlots will net around $4700 then why were they telling me they would only net $2500 when they were wanting me to give them away?

Am I getting something wrong here?

 

[pist'n broke]

Most people forget that it's an 8 year investment, they just see a massive initial paper loss after their investment has been converted to shares and panic - they end up selling them off and jumping ship, essentially aborting what was supposed to be another 5 years of investment period.

I cant follow this argument, gorillapolice.
Accepting this is a long term investment, is it not better to take the paper loss now and invest in something that will maximize your returns for the rest of the period?
If your crystal ball says GTP, stick with it.

 

[Jackob]

I reckon the downside risk of share price is much bigger than the other side.

It might becomes a penny-dreadful soon.

 

[goodie3shoes]

It is already a 'penny dreadfull' and it will never rise above this level but it can easily fall into the 'receiver appointed' classification.Just read that garbage yesterday from the 'fool' Chairman and the 'clown' MD.They are basically conceeding 'game over'.They talk about moving away from MIS and the new model but we are not privy to what this might be.Oh, carbon credits? Maybe a vendor of unencumbered land to keep the banks away.How are they going to pay out the TREES investors? These poor losers will be forced to convert into shares(if this Titanic sails that long) and this will create,what,another billion and a half new shares on top of the 650m already issued.Where is the asset backing then? Oh,cost cutting.They can't even afford to retrench staff because they don't have the dough to pay the entitelements.So just how are they going to be able to look after the trees,etc currently under 'skeleton management'?
This mob of 'corporate dullards and thugs' have created a company that has not produced one single successful project.
There has been some questionable private deals,apparently, so as to get the cattle over the line.Let's face it,who in their right mind would vote YES unless you were staff,had a dopey/scumbag advisor or had 'other incentives'.
This company is rooted.They ain't gonna make it.There is no more MIS for them to get them through.They ,if this story ever hit the media, have destroyed the MIS industry.They have cruelly and cynically destroyed our wealth and all we can do is sit back and watch these WA Merc drivers continue to rip out there million dollar salaries until the inevitable explosion.
Read the ASX release carefully.See if you can see any positives or hope or even see if these dopes have a got any busines plan.This is a very tragic story but will be buried in the current tsunami of other corporate disasters.
But,please don't listen to me. My judegment is hopeless, I tell lies and I get everything wrong and if Freehills or the Corporate Plod want to sue me then you will find me under the railway bridge at Woolloomloo waiting for the Sallies to take me away.

 

[bv2726]

One question I can't make sense of - why did all the directors take salary sacrifice shares payments if they didnt even think that they could ever sell them for more than what they are today?

I mean, in the release yesterday, they were given stacks of shares each. Worth nothing much now, but...if the share price did go to that magical mark of 80 cents or whatever KPMG reckoned...some of those directors would be laughing (if they sold).

Question - Are the directors completely deluding themselves paying themselves with worthless scrip? Or do they genuinely believe that they are going to make lots of money...one day????

 

[SDE]

So if my woodlots will net around $4700 then why were they telling me they would only net $2500 when they were wanting me to give them away?

Am I getting something wrong here?

It is quite possible.

A discounted cash flow analysis was applied to arrive at the PRESENT net value of each of the MIS projects. Remember, those future dollars aren't worth the same as the dollars you have now.

So yes, your 2000 project are likely to be worth $4700 when it comes to harvest time in 2012 if its present net value in 2008 after the DCF analysis was $2500.

In an accounting sleight of hand, the MIS investors were (mis)led to believe that, in accepting $2500 worth of shares (at a price of $0.50/share) in 2008, they would not be disadvantaged if, in 2012, their shares were still worth $2500 (assuming $0.50/share). After all, this was the basis of the “no disadvantage” test that KPMG, the independent expert applied. This is clearly nonsense.

Given that GTP share price is trading around $0.11, and heading south with no likelihood of a dividend payment, it is unlikely that those who exchanged MIS plantation projects for GTP shares won’t be disadvantaged.

Oh.................Don't bother going to ASIC. Apparently enforcement of the Corporations Act is a responsibility for the MIS punter.

 

[Wally1952]

Oh and remember, as a lot of us have suspected its highly likely someone from GSL is reading this forum.

Smile for us Cameron, Phillip, David, Alice, John, Peter, Mervyn, Neil, Simon or Julian! At least one of you is here...

.......................................................................................................

Let's not forget Investor1, I'm sure he/she is hiding in there somewhere!!

 

[ThePav]

Question - Are the directors completely deluding themselves paying themselves with worthless scrip? Or do they genuinely believe that they are going to make lots of money...one day????

They are the same director's that have been in charge of the company for the last three years. I don't think you should take too much note of what they do as history shows they tend to make pretty poor decisions.