GTP - Great Southern Plantations

[Mad Cow]

Howdy all,

I thought I had better extend the voting options, to cater for anyone who is still sitting on the fence, so I have added Subject Lines below for those in this situation, i.e. who don't know or plan to abstain.

If you want to have your say do the following, if you do not want to have a nice day anyway:

Send an email to:

HaveYourSayOn_GTP_Offer@hotmail.com

with the subject line which ever is applicable to you as follows:


You intend to vote YES:

Subject Line:
I Intend to Vote YES to Great Southern's Proposed Restructuring Scheme - YES

You intend to vote NO:

Subject Line:
I Intend to Vote NO to Great Southern's Proposed Restructuring Scheme - NO

You intend to vote ABSTAIN:

Subject Line:
I Intend to Vote ABSTAIN to Great Southern's Proposed Restructuring Scheme - ABSTAIN

You are UNDECIDED:

Subject Line:
I HAVE NOT DECIDED HOW TO VOTE re the Great Southern's Proposed Restructuring Scheme - UNDECIDED

NOTE: Any emails received as part of the above message will not be replied to, and the email addresses will not be used for anything or given to anyone.


I will post the result of this poll on Monday 1st December if not sooner, depending on the level of response.


Have a nice day .....


mooooooooooooo...


Mad Cow

 

[irenebrisbane]

With all due respect, Mad Cow, I don't know who you are; for all I know you could be collecting information on behalf of GSL. I am a suspicious person; been around the traps long enough to not be wary. Will be interested to see how many voters respond to your post. It is all probably in good faith, but I'll give it a miss this time.

 

[slim pickins]

irene i would not be too worried about anyone collecting information. GTP will have all the names and addresses and which way each person voted anyway.

the names of people voting yes to this could only be useful to those selling some dodgy nigerian scam in the future... to a scam artist such information certainly shows a persons naivety and suceptability to be tricked out of money.

i bet i could milk at least 10k out of anyone willing to vote yes to this proposal.

 

[drsmith]

With some forums an anonymous poll can be initiated as part of a new topic but I don't think this can be done here.

 

[drsmith]

I take that back. It can.

The option of a poll is under additional options when starting a new topic.

 

[Aussiejeff]

Company announcements this morning

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20081201/pdf/31dylztrc7fvf0.pdf

The thing that sticks out like cattles balls to me is the net loss from operations after tax before goodwill impairment of $33.8m - among other things, of course.

This will not bode well for them on the market today.

Most importantly - [size=+1]NO FINAL DIVIDEND[/size] on the back of an already paltry 3c interim!!

Cripes. 3c for the year is not going to go down well. Especially with the company going concern statement essentially saying if (a) the Transform program doesn't proceed, they may fold and (b) if market prices for GSL products fall during the coming year, they may fold.

What a bleak outlook....

My Bro-In-Law is going to throw up this morning when he sees his "regular guaranteed dividend cheque" has just vanished in a puff of smoke...

 

[brty]

The other "or", is of equal importance....

"or should the 2009 MIS sales result be low.."

Given that they are trying to pick up other projects at a loss to investors, then why would anyone be crazy enough to buy one of the 2009 timber schemes???

As importantly, could any financial planner/adviser honestly recommend one of the 2009 schemes to their clients ???

Also something I mentioned earlier in the thread about the asset valuation, the rehabilitation cost of the land is stated as $795/ha in the notes to the accounts. When I read that I thought of the line of Darryl Kerrigan in The Castle, " 'tel 'em their dreaming".

brty

 

[Forenth]

They've also sold some land in Qsld for $23 million.

From the voting figures published so far the % of yes votes required from the still outstanding votes to get 75% of woodlots/cattle lots are:

1998 : 113.0 %, so already a confirmed no overall.
1999 : 104.2 %, so already a confirmed no overall.
2000 : 92.6 %
2001 : 94.4 %
2002 : 89.8 %
2003 : 86.8 %

2006 cattle : 79.6 %
2007 cattle : 78.7 %

If I got these wrong please say so.

They say the 1998, 1999 and 2000 projects look like being a no, while the others are quite possible, with the cattle projects being likely. The cattle are a possibility but surely all the forestry projects aren't looking likely.

They changed their opinion on the 1998 project to vote depending on your circumstances, but still somehow claim the rest are a good deal??? They also claim with the VWAP being lower than KPMG used in their appraisal this is now an even better deal due to lower tax payable?? What a STUPID, ARROGANT statement.

Latest price is still $0.19, I want to see KPMG buy them and find how they like it! My after-tax break even price is $0.755 as I have to pay tax not just now but again when they're sold, assuming they EVER go up. That's 360 % of the share value today and that's not my risk to take. I own trees due for harvest soon. GSL can rack off.

 

[gorillapolice]

In addition to the absence of the final dividend, what's more alarming is the following:

We are encouraged that the majority of individual investors in 5 of the 8 projects support our proposals and we are particularly delighted by the strong yes vote that has been cast for the two cattle projects which are both close to the 75% by value target.

So from this it sounds like Cattle will get up.

He goes on to say that in the absence of a material change to numbers between now and the adjourned meeting dates, the 1998, 1999 and 2000 Project proposals appear unlikely to be approved, then saying "This is probably not surprising as these projects are nearing completion" (Gee, ya think???)

What I find most alarming here is the fact that it seems that there seems to be a significant number of investors who have 'neglected to vote' - so it seems, anyway.

 

[Guff]

Another note, GSL may sell their loan book for 50 to 70% of book value.

This really shows they are desperate for cash!

Is there any way of stopping the sale of the loan book?? If/when GSL go down, investors would then have to pay someone else for the loans.

Sales of assets are likely to be continued to be sold at significant discounts to book value (eg the 23million sale at 11% discount). All of these thingsadd up to a grab for cash to fund month to month cash flow needs.

 

[bv2726]

How is this for a theory - and some wishful thinking.

I have some cattle. I have voted no, and wont let GTP take my cattle away from me. But it appears (from their figures today) that they may be able to get some cattle off people.

So, if GTP suddenly own whole heap of cattle...do you think they may "try harder" and get a better price for their cattle? (and me!...cause I am a "partner")

Well, its nice to dream...

I just cant understand it. GTP keep saying "oh its bad, the cattle, the drought, the prices etc" but they want it. So they obviously may get good money for it...

Hoping...

 

[lcl999]

GTP have some massive debts, some in the form of convertible notes. See GTPGA and GTPGB.

If GTP still exists when they convert, the notes holders will end up with over 70% of the company. However as the notes are way under water, it would seem that the market is placing a rather low percentage chance of GTP surviving.

LCL

 

[ardstar]

Hi guys,

I have stumbled across this forum, and I myself recently invested in 2 woodlots as part of Great Southern's HVT scheme in FY2007-2008. After reading these latests posts I am now quite worried about my investment, as it is the first time I have ever invested in anything 'major'.

Is this change to GTP going to affect all investors, or investors of projects that are near maturity? Also if Great Southern were to go down, does that mean my woodlots are gone?

Sorry if these are stupid questions, but if there is anything I can do as a small time investor then I would be happy to help out, as by looking at that SMH article, Great Southern are really looking to rip us off.

Cheers,
Ardi

 

[Mad Cow]

Howdy all,

Just thought I would let you all know how I got on with the forum poll, whereby I asked people to respond to HaveYourSayOn_GTP_Offer@hotmail.com with YES/NO/ABSTAIN/DONT KNOW with respect to the planned Great Southern restructuring.

Of course, as you would expect, Great Southern beat me to it today, by publishing their proxy votes before I got my vote count in. I guess we must have had them worried we would pip them to the post with the poll results!

To tell the truth, my results were a bit disappointing, to say the least. I had been hoping to see one or two hundred votes cast through the forum, but I guess I overestimated the number of visitors such forums have. Either that or people had visited, but chose not to vote, which is their choice.

Well here is the count and voter preferences I received:

Total Votes cast = 4, as follows:

Vote 1: NO
Vote 2: NO (1998 forestry, where voter indicated he had also info on 60+ other people in the project where they were overwhelmingly voting NO)
Vote 3: NO (2000 plantation scheme, 6 wood lots)
Vote 4: NO (2007 cattle project)


Total: 4 x "NO" votes out of 4 votes cast, i.e. a 100% NO vote (well thats more like it) but I'm afraid it is not statistically significant!

Many thanks to those who voted.

mooooooooooooo ...

Mad Cow

 

[tally-ho]

I'm a 2006 cattle investor and I'm not sure whether cattle owners realise how much their loss will be if they accept the proposal.

I invested in 15 droves, that's 60 pregnant cattle at $75000 +GST. I received a first announcement about the proposal in a letter giving me a value of my investment to shares (at 1.10 share price) of $244200. That sounded really good. The second letter said sorry that was an error of calculation, but your investment is worth $61050 in shares (at 1.10 share price).

At the meeting I still had the impression that the value of my investment would be $61050 with an accordingly higher amount of shares issued due to the recalculation done in view of the fall of the shares. It wasn't until later when I sifted through the 200 pages explanatory memorandum that I noticed that we would get a fixed amount of shares of only 5910 per drove. In my figures that calculates to a value of $16843.50 calculated at the current share price of $0.19.

It comes to mind that many cattle investors would assume they would receive the Dollar Amount they had received in a letter and might vote yes so they have been deceived.

I was enquiring about cattle prices and even for the slaughterhouse, an adult cow would at least bring in $660 (400kg@1.65). That's $39600 in this example, a much better offer than $16843, so KPMG cannot say that it is the best option.

But then I learned another deception. I received the statement of my cow stock today and it's only 54 cows. I called GSL and learned that the initial 60 cows for which I paid $75000 are owned by GSL and only leased by the investor. Are other cattle investors aware of this? I don't have the original prospectus anymore, but the short version is very deceiving, it even states

"A stocking guarantee confirms that investors' droves will comprise at least 4 breeding cows after the first muster of the Project herd during the 2007 calendar year" <that would be 60 cows in my example>

Also speaking to a female staff member at the Perth investor meeting, I was threatened that if we don't accept their offer there would be administration fees to pay next years to come.

I think if the cattle investors have voted yes, it was because of the deception of the letters and the threat of ongoing costs.

Cattle owners have lost at least 80% of their investment within 2 years!

And they have invested $5000 for 4 unborn calves, which are calculated in the trading stock at $20 each (after they're born). So we got $80 worth of goods for our investment.

Cheers to Great Southern, the Great Con Artists!

Hope to hear more from other cattle project owners in this forum.

 

[Mad Cow]

The 2006/2007 cattle project PDS states what I have shown below. I don’t think this is saying they are owned by GSL, because as far as I know they do not own the cattle. I think it means GSMAL purchases or leases cattle for the project, and that all of the project investors have their share in these cattle, not GSL.

“Leased Cattle

Great Southern Cattle Managers PTY LTD (GSCMPL) a wholly owned subsidiary of GSMAL, will purchase or lease Breeding Cows for use in the Projects and the bulls required for joining.” (Page 20 in PDS)

 

[Forenth]

Dear Tally-ho,

What GSL wants to do to you sounds worse than the forestry scams. Go to ASIC and lodge a complaint. If you look back through my posts I have posted the details of how to do it online, page 59 or 60 on here. I 've complained twice and I heard somewhere tehy've had over 800 complaints now.

Tell them all you've posted and everything else you can find. Sounds like an immense ripoff to me...

 

[tally-ho]

Dear Tally-ho,

What GSL wants to do to you sounds worse than the forestry scams. Go to ASIC and lodge a complaint. If you look back through my posts I have posted the details of how to do it online, page 59 or 60 on here. I 've complained twice and I heard somewhere tehy've had over 800 complaints now.

Tell them all you've posted and everything else you can find. Sounds like an immense ripoff to me...

I have indeed lodged a complaint to ASIC online today. Your earlier info was helpful. I really think the problem is that cattle investors don't realise how much they will be losing.

I'm glad I found this forum, I think we have some power if we can create a big enough group and now we have some extra time. But how are other investors finding this group or info because they will be looking for keywords like "GSL Share offer" not the ASX code GTP.

 

[gorillapolice]

Also if Great Southern were to go down, does that mean my woodlots are gone?

No. No matter what happens to GSL, your trees will stay in the ground.
If GSL go down, somebody else should come in to manage the investments in their place.

 

[irenebrisbane]

Gorilla Police, tell me something happy: if GSL go down won't other creditors - e.g. banks, finance companies etc, have first claim on our woodlots and we get whatever is left over? That's not right is it?! Please?