GTP - Great Southern Plantations

[slim pickins]

hmmmm what can GTP say.... they have said everything already. of course they are concocting more tricks to compliment their scam.

i mean they have said that the majority of the votes will compel the other investors to accept the deal.... apart from this being wrong and without legal basis, (as the investors rights arise out of contract law and not corporations law)...... they have not said anything about what constitutes a majority of the vote. hence,

the tricks they have uo their sleeve are the probably the following:

1) the delay of course is trick no1, giving the shares time to recover .. which they wont. i mean they could hit 19c and what then... back to 13c and lower.
but of course the shares will bounce a few % as the company has sucessfully tricked some naive people out fo their assets.

2) the other trick wll be to argue that once the vote is a no, GTP will argue the majority will consist of the project investors at the time of the issue fo the project. and thourght this war of attrition they will slowly keep taking people trees over several years until a majority has indeed succomebed to their rip-of through various reasons.... for example there will always be someone despearte enought to need immediate cash. they will convert it to shares and take 10% of their investment if the need is that great.

other investors will die and others will get divorced... eventaully the company will take the majority of the trees in this game of attrition and those that are steadfast, the company will just ignore them.... after all GTP wont care about the 30% who will not give their trees up under any circumstances. they wont risk legal action.

GTP will remain liquid while it continues to take the trees away from people. once the trees are all eaten up by this monster the company will fold.

this could keep gtp alive for a couple fo years potentially. just enough for the direcotrs to pay themselves enough money and retire in comfort because everyone knows they will never get another job.

anyone buying these shares or sellign their trees to nothing is just contributing to the GTP directors' retirement fund.

i would love to see how many people will become GTP investors this year even if GTP gets 100 milion worth of trees for nothing... it will be a phyrric victory them.

 

[gorillapolice]

Forenth, I haven't seen or heard anything from GSL since the seminar on the Gold Coast last month. They've "gone to ground" as they say. Probably trying to cook up another method of getting our investments.

Perhaps they'll try a Nigerian 419 email scam - that might trick a few investors?

I shouldn't be giving them ideas...

 

[Guff]

It really does look like GSL is toast. The next couple months may see their debt levels rise even further and assets sold off -- they have started to sell land already to lease back to access some of the equity to pay bills and "reduce debt".

GSL will do everything it can to to delay liquidation (it looks like that's where they are headed), even sell its loan book for 50% if it must -- they even said that in their going concern statement. If one or more of the project-equity swaps get off the ground that will buy them more time.

The only concern I'd have now as an MIS investor is whether (and I'm not saying they have actually done this -- but Palandri Management DID!!) they have double sold woodlots, or not correctly carried out their management obligations in actually planting trees. Lets hope not. Again that is not a suggestion or accusation -- I'm sure GSL hasn't done anything of the sort.

 

[doctorj]

The one concern that struck me this morning is that what if GSL board/management have a significant interest in the schemes? Could other investors be railroaded into accepting the offer of shares if GSL mgt have a sufficiently large holding to swing the vote?

 

[brty]

Hi,

Just sighted this ad in properties for sale from Timbercorp, who are in similar trouble to GSL. (ie high debt no/little cash).

http://www.realestate.com.au/cgi-bi...der=&cc=&c=190783&s=vic&snf=rbs&tm=1228912579

They are trying to flog assets as well. At $171 per acre per annum for the lease plus cpi, then the yield on degraded land is only 3.42% assuming the ~$5000/acre valuation they have on their books.

The competition by these companies in selling this land with long term leases can only push the price down as they get more desperate.

brty

 

[tally-ho]

Re: 2006 Cattle

Investors have recently received their trading account. It shows an opening of only 2.2 cattle per drove instead of the promised 4 breeding cows.

I found a 4 page Project Summary that was handed out when I bought the investment and on page 3 under Project Features it states:

"A stocking guarantee confirms that investors' droves will comprise at least 4 breeding cows after the first muster of the project herd during the 2007 calendar year."

They seem to have made a guarantee they did not deliver on. I wrote to the company and to ASIC again. Anyone else who followed up on this or looked into it?

Anyone has asked about what the mix/age of their cattle is?

The average market price may be about $600 per adult meat cattle, Fresian heffers joined to beef bulls are selling for export to China & Saudi for $1850+gst I have been told.

Has anyone approached the company or succeeded in taking their cattle out, I'd be interested as I have a friend with 68 acres of lush green cattle fenced property who could agist them for me. If anyone has some feedback in this regard, I would welcome a private email to

odywyss@iinet.net.au

 

[Forenth]

Has anyone else been contacted by Dennis & Co? Does anyone else know what the results of a group action could potentially be?

I have also received a letter from Dennis & Co yesterday. It was very nicely worded and said it would only cost $825 per project if I wanted to join in their claim against GSL. Plus additional costs if any money was recovered but they would be seeking legal costs as well.

I thought we just wanted to halt the vote, but these guys are seeking damages for the poor performance of the projects, accusing GSL of misleading investors. From my prospectus the projects are at the bottom of the projections, which annoys me to a huge extent, but are performing within the limits. Yes, GSL got it wrong but to try and prove it was deliberately misleading won't be easy.

My project, 2000, is pretty certain to be a no vote and $825 / project seems a bit steep especially as I have relatively few woodlots. I can't help but wonder if these guys are just trying to cash in. After all, they can't promise anything will come of it, which is just what GSL said about their share price in the meetings.

Anyone else getting mail from Dennis & Co?

 

[prawn_86]

Hey guys,

I haven't follwed this thread much, but if you are looking to take legal action, a company called IMF do class actions on a 'no win, no pay' basis if you want to look into that.

Also if you can get > than 5% (or maybe its 10% im not sure now) of voters to agree, then you can call an EGM.

Hope that helps a bit.

Prawn

 

[cathadfab]

From my prospectus the projects are at the bottom of the projections, which annoys me to a huge extent, but are performing within the limits.

It's interesting when you look at the performance indicator chart within the 2006_Beef_Cattle_Investment_update available on the Great Southern website. It shows the three preojection levels for when the cattle were being sold and overlaid are the KPMG forecasts. I question why when the KPMG forecasts are still within the three initial forecasts are they now being used to show that the project is not a good investment.

Surely if the initial baseline wasn't a good investment when we were buying our cows, and there was every chance at that time that the project could stick to its baseline predictions, then why did they pursue the project at all.

it really concerns me that the new KPMG information, which is within this range, is being used to convince us that we should sell our investment for shares.

If KPMG are better equipped to predict the future than the company they used at the outset of the project, then why didn't they use them in the first place?

I also took a long time to read the section about how our cow money was divvied up this year too. They state that most of the 60% of the cattle that were held over have been sold since June 08 which makes me think that this year we should have that 60% plus another 100% of cattle to go on the books this year which could mean we stand to make a higher than expected yield. If our low return this year was based on 40% sales, then shouldn't we get a much higher return based on 160% sales?

As an added sweetener - if you decide to take shares instead of holding onto your cows then the company will waive the carry over fees which appear to be quite hefty! Seems we'll be penalised whichever way we decide to go.

Its like being back at school dealing with a bunch of influential bullies, determined to push people around until they get what they want.

 

[Grumpy Old Man]

If you really want to punish GTP, invest with someone else..

A competitor (Rewards Group http://www.rewardsgroup.com.au) is selling high value timber product. They may be the only company in Australia already exporting MIS teak? - but I could be wrong on this?

On the blue gum investment side, Macquarie Bank sell a product that may also be worth looking into - appears that for a price similar to GTP, you get the land plus trees - offtake agreements already in place with Australian Paper (rely on reflex!) for earlier products and Midway Ltd in Geelong and Portland who sell to Nippon Paper.

Anyway, have fun - and make your own mind up...

 

[irenebrisbane]

Forenth, we have received correspondence from Dennis & Co. We have discussed this proposed class action at length and we will not be joining it. Too many unknown variables in it: What constitutes "additional costs from moneys recovered" (e.g. %?). "We will seek to recover legal fees from GSL". Easier said than done. For us, the number of our woodlots (1998, 1999) would not justify outlaying the initial cost plus the additional costs and possibly legal fees.

 

[wooduk]

is great southern(gtp) still linking up with lignor in 2009 ?, if you go to the web punch in lignor and great southern plantations 2009

 

[irenebrisbane]

Interesting point, Wooduk; Great Southern are deafening in their silence on this or any other issue at the moment. Maybe this is one of the reasons they so desperately want our woodlots; they have a contracted sale arrangement for next year. I'm assuming Lignor are off and running. Couldn't find anything later than 2006 on their web site. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right places.

 

[Forenth]

The share price has been increasing in leaps and bounds the last few days. The ASX has asked GSL why its share price was at 0.17 and peaked at 0.36 one day before coming back by the close.

So who is paying a higher price to get shares and what do they know that most don't. I'm wondering if someone is trying to push the price up before the investor meeting so it looks like a better offer. Now who could that be? {wink, wink, nudge, nudge}. If that's the case it will collapse when they stop.

In their reply to the ASX, GSL have said they think they'll get at least one of the cattle projects and a significant number of individual offers. No mention of plantation projects. Perhaps they now don't think they'll get any majority votes. if so then HURRAY!

 

[wooduk]

The share price has been increasing in leaps and bounds the last few days. The ASX has asked GSL why its share price was at 0.17 and peaked at 0.36 one day before coming back by the close utable

suggestion--
ask a friendly broker for afavour,and ask if someone is playing cfd,s-puts and calls or is it a spread,loose change from a share killing from another share trade

if you go to google and type in lignor and great southern plantations 2009,scroll through the sites you will find it

I tip my hat to everybody,this is very strange considering that theyarebuying shares who ever they are and we have not seen what the latest is from the gtp vote that was delayed

 

[Forenth]

The new information from GSL is now available for each project at asx.com.au. Search for GTP and click on the 'recent' link under announcements.

Its much the same old rubbish as before, 64 pages of numbers with an admission that if the vote had gone ahead 1/12/08 they wouldn't have got ANY project including the cattle ones. They've also admitted that (to paraphrase) they've managed the company into a debt position where they will have to sell assets if they don't get the projects, and they'll likely sell a cattle project in 2009 if they get one.

Who's been auditing these bozos while they've been collecting their paypackets and running the company like this? What a bunch of incompetents, their business model may have been ok in 1998 but didn't they update it for tripling land prices etc? If they keep going like this they'll have to do capital issues or beg for MIS investors just to pay existing investors / debtors. Wall Street just showed us where that leads...

 

[wooduk]

As Churchill said in relation to the Battle of Britain,Quote---It is not the end ,but the beginning of the end.

Does any one know what the number of investors is needed to put new management to replace this lot?

The plantations are viable and no I did not go in scheme to scam the ATO,Lignor has a deal thatcan use gtp gums,but where that is to date considering the latest announcement who would know. this date

I do not mind if gsp pays me as of this date in the absence of a better monetary deal or equivalent a nett sum of$25,000 after all expenses.
Based on my 2003 lots of $15000
I do not think so!

 

[slim pickins]

i have just read the supplementary explanatory memorandum from GTP.
it is a horrendus bunch of incomprihensible drivel. they list a bunch of totally irrelevant figures and reassert that the independent directors support this scam.

the report can be summed up as this: i paraphrase,

"as you can see from our report we are totally doomed. vote yes
we owe too much money. vote yes.
we have lent people money that we will never see again. vote yes.
we are operating at a loss of 65 million p.a. (our total net worth on the stock market) .... vote yes.
we will probably never have a profit again, vote yes.
our interest payments are $80 million p.a., vote yes,
our share price is very low... vote yes
you will incerase your tax liabity with this scheme, vote yes.
you will get nothing out of this but because there is no better offer..... vote yes"

these is a better offer, keep your investment and dont take the shares.

gtp will be hit by massive lawsuits by investors in the coming months exposing them to huge damages payouts. i reallly feel for the new shareholders if you feel you have been tricked by GTP you may have a legal case against them for trickery and deception. (not legal terms)

 

[wooduk]

BASED on the latest comments_ we need the fin advisers who advised on the MIS INVESTMENTS to get to together and form a block or aform of advisory council:trust as an entity that can tell us to either get an independant forrester to evaluate and if less cost prohibitive and remove the trees and sell toanother entity where it may BE more profitable than wait for gsp to gouge the trees thatwe own under their management criteria .

Leaving it to gsp would be a disaster especially as the $80 million will soon reach $100 MILLION AND THEN WHAT?

 

[slim pickins]

Wooduk,

i dont think you can just take the trees, that would be breach of contract against GTP. they have management rights and they get a % of the overall sale. the trees are with GTP until the moment they go bankrupt.

one this happens the trees will either be transferred to an new manager or if one cant be fouund the trees will be cut and sold.

dotn worry about GTP's 80 million interest repayments. that is the shareholders concern. however it would be nice to get some money in damages form GTP before they are bankrupt.

but that bankrupcy is probably a year + away especially since they will get some of the trees from some people.

dont expect too much from the financial advisors who recommended this. they are keeping very quiet as they want to limit their exposure to liability when the mud finally hits the fan.

if fact for them its proabbly better if people just accept the offer so their investment can just die quietly. notice in the supplementary notice that anyone that acceps the offer automatically gives up any right to sue GTP for anything.

regardign the court carses.... its a tricky situation... a great deal of the legal strategy against GTP will rest on which way the votes go.

lots of people havent voted. its amazing how little some people care abotu their money