Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

GTP - Great Southern Plantations

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oh whoops.... GTP is worth only $69 million now... thats a $2 million dollar loss in value in 10 minutes... at that rate..... oh dear. and i am loking at their PE ratio.... it says N/A... that means they have no profit. hmmmm....

the way this is going i think ill just buy GTP with the change in my pocket.

when this is over they will never be able to sell any invesment to anyone. the shareholders know it. its game over for them. i think the directors of GTP..... if they open their office windows, they will just be able to hear the chruch bell toll.
 
slim pickins said:
those with a few woodlots here and there... thier vote will make no difference anyway.

and i think GTP has realised that they cant force people to convert their woodlots to shares so they are just trying to get as many woodlots from investors as they can. mainly the disorganied ones with little interest in the project..... i bet people with less then 10 woodlots wont even bother to vote.
Click to expand...

I am a little guy with less than 10 woodlots (in one year).

I definitely will bother to vote.

NO!
 
Other Grower Options

I have today done a bit of research into this issue. There are a number of genuine export woodchip companies and operations in Australia purchasing hardwood chip and logs including (but not limited to):

1) Tasmania- Gunns;
2) WA - WAPRES;
3) VIC - Midway and Australian Paper;
4) NSW - Boral, South East Forest Exports (SEFE)

Institute of Foresters of Australia (http://www.forestry.org.au/) can provide contact details for qualified independent professional forestry consultants. Their Registered Professional Forester scheme includes numerous General Practicing Foresters who can advise on such matters.

If growers collectively employed a forestry consultant to represent their interests, it should be possible to market wood to export companies independent of GTP if this is the desired outcome.

Good luck...
 
Yeah - good luck with that.

Could've sworn GTP owns the land, and is managing people's woodlots in drought conditions.

Anyone would think MIS holders own the whole shooting match (except for the debt of course :rolleyes:).

Whether or not you think your deal should be better, you are in it together with the company.
 
Longhaul:

Woodlot investors are customers of GTP - not part of GTP.

Woodlot investors dont own 'whole shooting match', only the assets of the MIS scheme. Given that these are the ONLY effective assets given land is encumbered and GTP spent all the cash, why would we now want to be saddled with the debt mess that GTP management have created?

Big difference between a customer and a shareholder. Big surprise coming.

:)
 
longhaul,

so what if they own the land, as far as i remember MIS owners have leased the land. it doesnt matter who becomes the next land owner. they have to honour that lease as far as i know.

i dont know about drought.... is the drought everywhere in australia? do trees stop growing in a drought? are the trees still knee high because of the drought? as far as i know Blue gum is a native australian tree that has evolved to grow well in australia and australia has droughts all the time. droughts are probably good for it. :) excessive rain will probably kill the blue gum. even so.... worst case scenario the yield is 10% less then it should be.. so what.

why doesnt a current affair report the story.. maybe it doesnt appeal to their viewers. its not quite on the same level as "that farmer still cant find a wife"...... and even if they did air the story.... many people would just say... hah... the whole thing stinks ...tax evaders and crooked directors, they all deserve each other. i hope that farmer finds a wife :)

and i dont mean to insult anyone with less then 10 woodlots... i mean that investment is about half a years salary. not small at all, but where are the MIS investors that will vote yes to this proposal......

there are several categories of people that i expect to vote yes or abstain to this... and let me list them if i may... and i dotn mean to be crass although it might sound like i am, but these are the only reasons i would encourage people to vote yes

1) if you are terminally ill
2) if you are over 78
3) if you have just committed a major crime and have not been arrested yet.
4) if you are about to go bankrupt and this is the only way to get some money, and i mean the only way.
5) if you have already sold everything you own in order to buy GTP shares and you really really want more.
6) if your mum or dad, husband or wife are on the GTP board of the directors and you just cant bear to see them publically humiliated.
7) if your spouse is abotu to take all your assets in a nasty divorce and you want to ensure they get nothing. :)

then please vote yes for your own good
 
slim pickins said:
longhaul,


why doesnt a current affair report the story.. maybe it doesnt appeal to their viewers. its not quite on the same level as "that farmer still cant find a wife"...... and even if they did air the story.... many people would just say... hah... the whole thing stinks ...tax evaders and crooked directors, they all deserve each other. i hope that farmer finds a wife :)
Click to expand...

What are you trying to say about our "flagship"current affairs programs, its not like their only interested in running "Puff pieces", they do serious stories.. like, umm, they interviewed britneys mum ;-)


60 minutes has really lost its way........
sadly even the 7:30 report is getting a bit lightweight from time to time but its still a beacon of shining light

:cool:
 
Share price listed at $0.21 - you would be crazy to take this offer up given the shares are a near 30 cents below what they are offering investors.

This is a time delaying tactic designed in order to get investors who haven't already voted to vote yes by trying to provide them with more information that puts the offer in a better light.

But the longer they hold out the worse the share price is going to get, it's inevitable now, surely.
 
Better make that price $0.20 as of now, and they want investors to pay $0.50. Any offer based on today's price would be out of date by tomorrow.

Include tax and the price has to almost quadruple just to break even with where the investment would be anyway. I'm a 2000 investor and why would I ever want to take that risk when my investment is 80% grown and has a strong certainty of the return?

GSL would have to offer a stunning premium to accept their new scheme, whatever it is. Gorillapolice could be right, maybe there is no improved offer and they're just renovating the presentation of the scheme. Trying to dazzle those who haven't seen past the thin layer of bright paint to see the underlying decay.

If they want me to vote again its still NO!
 
oh dear... 17% fall today. we are at 18.5c a share. that means that the very very remote possibility of this vote passing is already factored into the price.

when it turns out to be a no watch the short sellers have a field day. it will sink like a lead weight.

why doesnt the 7.30 report do a story about it... must be political.... maybe they dont want to upset the shareholders, invesment funds. after all as a staunch capitalist i believe that companies should be abel to take advantage of the naive. its darwinism at its finest.

i dont need KPMG to tell me anything. they can tell me the the sky is green till they go blue in the face. btu when i look outside if the sky is blue.... its blue.

it really reminds me of september 11, when the first plane hit... they told the people to stay where they are. these are professional first response teams telling people to stay in a building that was just hit by a plane... and believe it or not.... some poeple actually stayed.

well the plane has just hit... KPMG can say whatever they want... i'm getting out.

its just amazing... it looks like you can pay an accounting company to say whatever you want. arthur anderson did that didnt they? whatever happed to them?
 
slim pickins said:
why doesnt the 7.30 report do a story about it... must be political.... maybe they dont want to upset the shareholders, invesment funds. after all as a staunch capitalist i believe that companies should be abel to take advantage of the naive. its darwinism at its finest.
Click to expand...

There is no story because there aren't enough investors collectively waving their hands up in the air, wanting to be seen and heard.

Sure, there are numerous small separate factions doing their own little thing and many have individually complained to ASIC.

But aside from David Mond and one or two others who have tried to collectively round up investors to the masses to send a resounding message to a) Great Southern and b) the public to get some air time to voice what's really been happening - there simply just aren't enough people collectively stamping their feet and raving and ranting to get the message out.

Many advisers don't want to, they'd rather sit back and communicate with their clients directly and advise them to vote no but stay out of what has become a real **** storm.

The share price is toppling - even on a "great" day for the market (given current conditions).

The problem with this entire situation is not the proposal put forth by Great Southern itself but rather the arrogance of corporate fat cats who fail to recognize that a majority of their investors were actually born with a brain and some common sense!

Even now I am bemused to understand how the likes of Cameron Rhodes, Steven Cole and Phil Butlin failed to swallow their own egos and arrogance at the Melbourne seminar and understand that those attending were not there to be informed on their "New Great Southern" but rather there seeking blood.

Investors be warned. If you want to throw away what was (and should have become) a smart investment has now become nothing and the management of Great Southern are to blame.

Taking that into account, before you vote, consider this: Great Southern, in their information seminars, are proposing "A New Great Southern". What will be so new about it? Same directors, same board. The only difference is you won't own your trees.

...and at the end of the day, even if Great Southern fall, your trees will still stay in the ground.
 
gorillapolice said:
Investors be warned. If you want to throw away what was (and should have become) a smart investment has now become nothing and the management of Great Southern are to blame.

...and at the end of the day, even if Great Southern fall, your trees will still stay in the ground.
Click to expand...

the trees are a fine investment... they are growing better then any blue chip share on the market right now. that is why they are the object of this corpoarte piracy.

it makes no difference if GTP fails or not. if they fail the management and sale of the trees will be taken over by the administrator. and later the management rights will be bought up my a more sensible forestry company.


now regarding the delay to the vote.. i wonder if there is a provision in the corporations law that invalidates the already cast votes in case of such a delay.... could that be trick they are relying on?

alternatively.... they will just try to delay until the share price goes up to one dollar wich would allow MIS investors to get their money back with nothing to show for it for the last 8 or so years.

unfortunately (for them).... the share price is only going one way.. and thats down.... i ask you with each day that passes, is their ability to repay an $800 million loan getting better or worse. i think the value of the whole company ... now only $60 million is the yearly interest they are liable for.

i ask you... how long can a company last, when its yearly interest expense is the equivelant of their whole net worth. we shall know very soon. i suspect they will just delay them selves into an early bankrupcy.

mind you.... if this thing passes... i can see their share jumping to about 35c and possibly delaying their bankrupcy by a year or so.

if there are any MIS investors that will vote yes... i beg you to present an argument as to why you are going to do so. just for a laugh :)
 
slim pickins said:
now regarding the delay to the vote.. i wonder if there is a provision in the corporations law that invalidates the already cast votes in case of such a delay.... could that be trick they are relying on?
Click to expand...

From what I have heard people who have already voted will not be required to re-vote. The adjournment is designed to sway those who have already voted to amend their no votes to yes votes (by providing them with 'new' information).

Needless to say, they're going to have to come up with something pretty mindblowing to get any investor who has already voted no to amend their vote given the $0.18 closing price of their shares today.
 
Howdy all. I have been reading your postings over the past few days, and it struck me that the postings are a bit one sided, as they mainly relate to plantations projects. So I thought I’d give you my input, as a cattle man, well at least I have 2006 and 2007 project droves, so that must qualify me as something, even if it is just plain stupid!

I have discussed the current situation for many an interesting hour with my spouse (“Cow Pat”) and my daughter (“Little Heifer”). We are left wondering where, or rather how will it all end!

The way I see it is as follows:

Firstly, all these so called “independent” reports around, are a laugh. None of them are truly independent. They are all prepared by people being paid by Great Southern or its subsidiaries, and they all have a vested interest in an outcome that suites the needs of Great Southern. For example, this is particularly true of the KPMG report. There fear is obviously if they stand up and tell Great Southern the truth, that their proposed project sucks from an investor viewpoint, Great Southern are hardly likely to go back to them for “independent” reports in the future. Hence, “he who pays the piper, calls the tune” has never been truer than in this instance.

Now, what really gets me with all of these reports is their asset evaluations, and the implication that all the investors have invested in the projects is the asset value of the cattle. The way I see things is that presumably all of the $5000 per drove up-front did not just pay for the cattle assets, but presumably paid for the setting up of the project. Hence, to value the investment KPMG etc should not just be valuing the beasts of the field, but the “project” as a whole, which is a fully operational cattle enterprise, which we paid to setup, not GSL.

What really got stuck in my hoof this year with the 2006 cattle project was that Great Southern only sold 40% of the available cattle they should have sold. Supposedly to wait to get bigger bucks for the other 60%, but this was at the risk of possibly getting even smaller bucks if the beef price went down further. I have my own theory (conspiracy) on this though. Call it far fetched if you dare, but I reckon if I were Great Southern trying to pull off their scam I would have held onto the 60% of the cattle from last year until after the vote, in the hope of pocketing that 60% of the cash for the cattle in the event of the YES vote. My conspiracy theory does not stop there though, cause then this has the benefit on making it look as the returns are down for the first year, of the 2006 cattle project expectation, and allows Great Southern to claim a bigger shortfall than there should have been, if there should have been a short fall at all. That way KPMG can play the “shortfall fear” Tarot card in their ”independent” report’. Nice one!!

It seems to me, even in the presence of the “apparent” poor returns made this year by Great Southern 2006 cattle project, it is still tracking pretty close to where it should be at this stage in the project. I did not get this information from any of the “independent” reports I looked at. Indeed, the KPMG report told me I should not event consider comparing how the investment was meeting the original expectation. Strange that!

If the "independent experts" think I want to take shares in exchange for my assets, at a greatly reduced asset value, have those shares fall dramatically in worth on the first day, be liable for 46.5% tax on the shares, and then loose all my money when the shares go to zero or I have to sell them at a price approaching zero to pay the tax, the “independent” experts must be “smoking dope”.

Yes, you can be sure I’ve sent my NO vote in. I hope this delay does not mean I am going to have to waste time sending in more NO votes just to ensure GTP get the message!

You would have thought that all of the independent advisors who sold us the bum steers in the first place would have been in the best position to band together to fight on the halve of the little guys (that’s me you know), but I don’t see that happening any time soon. My advisors in GTPs pocket, he’s to used to raking in his 10% of sales. My advisor has been conspicuous by his silence during recent events! Ah well … He may not do so well this year, that’s for sure. Is there some central organization to which advisors belong, who is doing anything on behalf of investors in all this turmoil?

Well, I had better go, as the above is probably going to be too big when I try and put it up for display on-line. Just one final thought though. I was thinking the other day over a beer, that because I have been giving Great Southern a hard time lately I would not put it past them, out of spite, tuning up in a cattle truck at my front door with my 228 steers, and telling me to look after them myself in my garden. Well, I have been thinking about this, and I reckon I could just fit them in, as I have a 650 square metre lot. Any body know if it is against the regulations to fit 228 cattle in a 650 square metre residential area? Of course, some of them are going to be looked after pretty well, as half the lot is taken by the house, so half of them are going to be in doors with Cow Pat, Little Heifer and myself!! But do you know, being very resourceful as I am, I have come up with the perfect scheme. Yep, I am going to start selling cow manure from home, yep, you heard me right, cow manure!! You know back in England, where I originate from, they always used to say about farmers, that there’s “money in muck”! Well, I think I can see know what they meant. Come to think of it, it kind of runs in the family, as Cow Pat’s uncle Harry used to keep pigs. But I think I will stick with the cows in the house!

Well I had better go. Keep up your good work spreading the word to vote NO on this issue.

PS: Oh, I almost forgot. Did anybody out there receive the mail out from Peter Gibbins recently under the banner of “Sentry Group”? Well, on investigating the privacy issues associated with this with Peter, I was actually dumbfounded to find out from Peter that he paid Great Southern to mail it out for him, and of course they agreed, as Peter is a strong supporter of the YES vote. I thought this was all a bit “covert” of Great Southern”, but Great Southern seemed to think it was all OK. What do you think?

Yes, I’m really gone now. Take care .. and stick together in the presence of adversity…

moooooooooo ...

Mad Cow
 
good post mad cow. :) i also think that when all this is over we need to move to change these independent advisors. i mean what a nasty bunch. and KPMG.... if we publicise this, any audit signed off by KPMG will be worthless.

i would never buy a comanies share whose books were cooked by KPMG...... they are clearly following the path of arhtur anderson.
 
Good to hear from a cattle man, you're in the minority but still being told to swap for the same lame duck.

Shares ended up at $0.19. At $0.01 I might actually buy a few and see if they get to $0.02 for a profit.

I received some new GSL info in the mail, I hope that's not the 'updated' info cos' it was just the same rubbish as before. It just whined 'aww go on, pleeeeease? You can trust us.' At the same time I was guarding my wallet.

There must be something else coming surely. Anyone seen anything?
 
Howdy again!

I was wondering how many Great SOuthern investors are out there looking at these postings. It seems to me, the big advantage GTP has is that they have the money and the communication mechanisms to promote their viewpoint, better than the "little guys" do. Well here's your chance!

Hence, I am interested in finding out how many little guys are out there, and which side of the fence they are standing on the YES/NO vote.

Now, I am the first person to respect privacy, but on an issues such as this I figure is is time to make a stand and be counted. Not that I'm a schollar, but someone I'm sure in history said "evil flourishes when good men do nothing", or words to that affect. We all know what the "evil" I am eluding to here is!

Anyway, if you have the same interest as me as to the numbers of viewers and their current thought process do the following. Note: I apologise in advance to those people who think the voting process is private, and that I shoudl not be asking them to vote. Well actually, the voting process below will be private, in the sense that noone other than me will be able to see how you vote, and I am not interested at an individual level how you vote, just what the overall vote outcome looks like at this stage.


If you want to have your say do the following, if you do not want to have a nice day anyway:

Send an email to:

HaveYourSayOn_GTP_Offer@hotmail.com

with the subject line which ever is applicable to you as follows:


Your intend to vote YES:

Sugject Line:
I Intend to Vote YES to Great Southern's Proposed Restructuring Scheme - YES

Your intend to vote NO:

Sugject Line:
I Intend to Vote NO to Great Southern's Proposed Restructuring Scheme - NO

NOTE: Any emails received as part of the above message will not be replied to, and the email addresses will not be used for anything or given to anyone.


I will post the result of this poll on Monday 1st December if not sooner, depending on the level of response.


Have a nice day .....


mooooooooooooo...


Mad Cow
 

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