Its not, hence the price crashing lately. It peaked on a belief of inflation due to QE which didn't occur and its now sunk due to a belief of deflation with QE scaled back.
Gold Price - Where is it heading?
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Its not, hence the price crashing lately. It peaked on a belief of inflation due to QE which didn't occur and its now sunk due to a belief of deflation with QE scaled back.
Trembling Hand
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I would guess that Unc means if we get deflation the game is over. After trying to pump prime the system with a few trillion dollars and getting deflation still there will be another banking crises and a flight to gold as the only protection against wealth disappearing - Cyprus style.
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No champ, my first 5 kilo blocks of siver I purchased for $800 each.
Gold to me is just the "bell weather", it will become so valuable that Krudds and Co's will sieze it in the national interest.
Note Sinclair again this morning calling $50,000 gold, he was correct the last time when he called $1650, for two years prior, from $800.
But for me...
I just plodalong, so we will see.
So is the 100 to 1 true or not?
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Well done TH, couldn't have said it better myself
They desperately want just 2% 'target' yet QE just maintains flatline? The point is, if there's just the slightest contraction there's nothing left in the professors armory, no more bazookas, because everyone and the drovers dog knows how the system works & is rorted for eg the Irish bankers tapes, so no more bailouts for the TBTF's.
The bail-in model template was a success and will be seen again. Government deposit insurance is worthless, even here.
Once the effects of the spike in interest rates starts to really have an impact in the highly leveraged $300T interest rate swap market then that's the start of the end game.
The next one will be QEWhateverItTakes.....let alone the &%^$^# taper....
PS TH I think you've hauled him over the coals enough about the 100 to 1?
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weekend light reading 
------------------------------------------
link http://www.silverdoctors.com/chart-..._campaign=Feed:+Silverdoctors+(SilverDoctors)
Chart of the Day: Gold’s Biggest Buy Signal of Entire Bull Market!
June 28, 2013 By The Doc
------------------------------------------
link http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-26/gold-drops-below-its-average-cash-cost
Gold Drops Below Its Average Cash Cost
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 06/26/2013
------------------------------------------
link http://www.juniorminingnews.com/?p=2638
Gold mining not sustainable below $1,200
Posted on June 28, 2013
------------------------------------------
link http://srsroccoreport.com/the-primary-miners-the-fed-18-silver/the-primary-miners-the-fed-18-silver/
Can the Primary Miners Survive $18 Silver?
Filed in Mining, Precious Metals by SRSrocco on June 28, 2013
------------------------------------------
link http://www.silverdoctors.com/chart-..._campaign=Feed:+Silverdoctors+(SilverDoctors)
Chart of the Day: Gold’s Biggest Buy Signal of Entire Bull Market!
June 28, 2013 By The Doc
------------------------------------------
link http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-26/gold-drops-below-its-average-cash-cost
Gold Drops Below Its Average Cash Cost
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 06/26/2013
------------------------------------------
link http://www.juniorminingnews.com/?p=2638
Gold mining not sustainable below $1,200
Posted on June 28, 2013
------------------------------------------
link http://srsroccoreport.com/the-primary-miners-the-fed-18-silver/the-primary-miners-the-fed-18-silver/
Can the Primary Miners Survive $18 Silver?
Filed in Mining, Precious Metals by SRSrocco on June 28, 2013
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Well done TH, couldn't have said it better myself
They desperately want just 2% 'target' yet QE just maintains flatline? The point is, if there's just the slightest contraction there's nothing left in the professors armory, no more bazookas, because everyone and the drovers dog knows how the system works & is rorted for eg the Irish bankers tapes, so no more bailouts for the TBTF's.
The bail-in model template was a success and will be seen again. Government deposit insurance is worthless, even here.
Once the effects of the spike in interest rates starts to really have an impact in the highly leveraged $300T interest rate swap market then that's the start of the end game.
The next one will be QEWhateverItTakes.....let alone the &%^$^# taper....
PS TH I think you've hauled him over the coals enough about the 100 to 1?
Agreed been saying it for a long time as well.
explod
explod
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Actually the paper gold price is irrelevant,,,
done,,,
dusted,,,
and caput,,,
so dont' worry for me Unc., we move on to the real stuff.
http://www.zerohedge.com/contribute...line-real-time-physical-gold-price-datasource
done,,,
dusted,,,
and caput,,,
so dont' worry for me Unc., we move on to the real stuff.
http://www.zerohedge.com/contribute...line-real-time-physical-gold-price-datasource
Trembling Hand
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Any other mis-information you would like people to put their hard earned against Explod?
Todays price for the real stuff
:
Todays price for the real stuff
:
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Still looks like Gold Equities leading Gold:
Canada really took off overnight. Looks like the Aussie mid caps.. err I mean SMALL cap goldies will be up at least 10%-20% come monday.
Canada really took off overnight. Looks like the Aussie mid caps.. err I mean SMALL cap goldies will be up at least 10%-20% come monday.
June 21, 2013
Where Next For Gold?
Alastair Ford
Gold bulls have been engaged in a bloody war of attrition of late, and in spite of a surge in physical demand, have been forced to beat a slow retreat in the face of heavy selling from the holders of exchange traded products.
Gold bulls have been engaged in a bloody war of attrition of late, and in spite of a surge in physical demand, have been forced to beat a slow retreat in the face of heavy selling from the holders of exchange traded products.
The US Federal reserve is now planning gradually to ease off its quantitative easing programme, meaning that the natural inflationary effect on the gold price as more money has been printed month-in, month-out, will now disappear.
The same is true for other commodities, which have also been weaker of late, in particular silver.
The gold price has fallen from the high of US$1,794 per ounce hit last summer, to a current price of around US$1,294. That’s a chunky old US$500 drop in a short space of time, and has had some of the shriller bulls, like Jim Sinclair, in a tizz for a while.
“Gold is never easy”, said Jim in a recent missive to shareholders in his gold company Tanzanian Royalty Exploration, and to other followers. “Gold is the tell tale of a broken system. Gold therefore is the barometer of the risk factors of economic conditions.”
With that in mind, some bulls argue that it is in the interests of those who control the global financial system at the highest level to depress the gold price artificially in order to make it appear that the system is in ruder health than it really is.
It is, these bulls argue, part of an attempt by central bankers and others to bluff their way to financial recovery. The tool is paper gold, and the selling of ETPs.
And that, so the argument runs, is why demand for physical is on the rise, even as the gold price falls. Supply and demand for physical is beyond the abilities of anyone to control, even if the Indians are imposing more taxes on imports.
Here though, the argument that central bankers are to blame appears to become somewhat circular. Let’s assume that gold is indeed the “barometer” of economic conditions. If it was an effective and fully functional barometer it wouldn’t be subject to serious manipulation by anyone.
So either: gold is an effective barometer, and global markets are signalling the start of an economic recovery by selling down gold; or gold is ineffective as a barometer and subject to manipulation, which makes its desirability as an asset class somewhat questionable.
Of course, the price of anything tradable is theoretically subject to manipulation - just witness the shenanigans that the central bankers of the world have been pulling with their own currencies.
Across the globe, the major economies have been forcing down the value of their respective currencies by printing money, and holding down interest rates. You could argue that that has in effect been a manipulation of the gold price up by central bankers, not down.
On the other hand, the price of gold was on a long upward trend before the money printing programme started, in November of 2008 in the case of the USA.
QE1, as it’s known, began with a US$600 billion programme of buying mortgage-backed securities, and by the time it was wound up had purchased over US$2.1 trillion worth of MBSs, bank debt and treasury notes.
QE2 took place between November 2010 and June 2011, and accounted for a further US$600 billion in treasury securities.
QE3 was then initiated in September 2012, a move which sparked the last major spike in gold, and allowed for an open-ended programme to purchase US$40 billion per month in MBSs.
All that money printing cheapened the value of a dollar significantly. But because all the world’s other major economies were either also printing money or pegged to the dollar, the effects in the currency markets was muted.
In equities and commodities it was very clear, though. With the value of cash falling and interest rates at close to zero, investors piled into other asset classes, notably equities and commodities.
Now that the Fed has indicated that QE3 is likely to come to an end by mid-2014, equities and commodities are falling. But not by too much. The Fed’s plan is not to crash the system. On the contrary, as with any centrally-based policy-maker, its plan is to maintain the position of its client, the US people, as the pre-eminent economic power in the world.
To achieve that the taps will be switched off slowly and carefully. That’s why markets dipped rather than plunged on the news, and why gold is still trading at only slightly less than double the price it was at when the quantitative easing programme started.
Where it goes from here is an interesting question. Certainly, the old bullish argument that there’s still more economic pain in the system remains as valid as ever. There’s still plenty of toxic debt around, government deficits are still not really under control, and although so far the stimulus hasn’t generated the inflation everyone expected, it’s hard to avoid the conclusion that that inflation is still stored up in the system and poised to burst out.
On the other hand, economic news out of the US is better, and although Greece continues to lurch from one crisis to the next, the Eurozone as a whole has looked more stable this year. Whether the Eurozone itself is viable remains open to question, but any shocks occasioned by its potential disintegration may not now be as severe as some of the shocks that are already in the rear view mirror.
China remains a concern in terms of the quality of its data and the rate of its slowdown. But actually, as far as gold bugs are concerned, China on the whole is good news. More wealth creation means more buyers for gold, and a real pillar of strength in the demand for physical that the major price dips have brought out into the open.
Over at broker RFC Ambrian they note that traditionally an ounce of gold has held its value against the price of a good suit. This though, then prompts the debate as to what actually constitutes a good suit. TM Lewin? Gieves & Hawkes? Savile Row?
And in a sense, the same argument could actually be made about the dollar itself. What actually is a dollar worth? The answer today is 1/1,294ths of an ounce of gold. But depending on whose making the dollars and why, it could be a whole lot different in a few months time.
Source >>> www.minesite.com
*****
Where Next For Gold?
Alastair Ford
Gold bulls have been engaged in a bloody war of attrition of late, and in spite of a surge in physical demand, have been forced to beat a slow retreat in the face of heavy selling from the holders of exchange traded products.
Gold bulls have been engaged in a bloody war of attrition of late, and in spite of a surge in physical demand, have been forced to beat a slow retreat in the face of heavy selling from the holders of exchange traded products.
The US Federal reserve is now planning gradually to ease off its quantitative easing programme, meaning that the natural inflationary effect on the gold price as more money has been printed month-in, month-out, will now disappear.
The same is true for other commodities, which have also been weaker of late, in particular silver.
The gold price has fallen from the high of US$1,794 per ounce hit last summer, to a current price of around US$1,294. That’s a chunky old US$500 drop in a short space of time, and has had some of the shriller bulls, like Jim Sinclair, in a tizz for a while.
“Gold is never easy”, said Jim in a recent missive to shareholders in his gold company Tanzanian Royalty Exploration, and to other followers. “Gold is the tell tale of a broken system. Gold therefore is the barometer of the risk factors of economic conditions.”
With that in mind, some bulls argue that it is in the interests of those who control the global financial system at the highest level to depress the gold price artificially in order to make it appear that the system is in ruder health than it really is.
It is, these bulls argue, part of an attempt by central bankers and others to bluff their way to financial recovery. The tool is paper gold, and the selling of ETPs.
And that, so the argument runs, is why demand for physical is on the rise, even as the gold price falls. Supply and demand for physical is beyond the abilities of anyone to control, even if the Indians are imposing more taxes on imports.
Here though, the argument that central bankers are to blame appears to become somewhat circular. Let’s assume that gold is indeed the “barometer” of economic conditions. If it was an effective and fully functional barometer it wouldn’t be subject to serious manipulation by anyone.
So either: gold is an effective barometer, and global markets are signalling the start of an economic recovery by selling down gold; or gold is ineffective as a barometer and subject to manipulation, which makes its desirability as an asset class somewhat questionable.
Of course, the price of anything tradable is theoretically subject to manipulation - just witness the shenanigans that the central bankers of the world have been pulling with their own currencies.
Across the globe, the major economies have been forcing down the value of their respective currencies by printing money, and holding down interest rates. You could argue that that has in effect been a manipulation of the gold price up by central bankers, not down.
On the other hand, the price of gold was on a long upward trend before the money printing programme started, in November of 2008 in the case of the USA.
QE1, as it’s known, began with a US$600 billion programme of buying mortgage-backed securities, and by the time it was wound up had purchased over US$2.1 trillion worth of MBSs, bank debt and treasury notes.
QE2 took place between November 2010 and June 2011, and accounted for a further US$600 billion in treasury securities.
QE3 was then initiated in September 2012, a move which sparked the last major spike in gold, and allowed for an open-ended programme to purchase US$40 billion per month in MBSs.
All that money printing cheapened the value of a dollar significantly. But because all the world’s other major economies were either also printing money or pegged to the dollar, the effects in the currency markets was muted.
In equities and commodities it was very clear, though. With the value of cash falling and interest rates at close to zero, investors piled into other asset classes, notably equities and commodities.
Now that the Fed has indicated that QE3 is likely to come to an end by mid-2014, equities and commodities are falling. But not by too much. The Fed’s plan is not to crash the system. On the contrary, as with any centrally-based policy-maker, its plan is to maintain the position of its client, the US people, as the pre-eminent economic power in the world.
To achieve that the taps will be switched off slowly and carefully. That’s why markets dipped rather than plunged on the news, and why gold is still trading at only slightly less than double the price it was at when the quantitative easing programme started.
Where it goes from here is an interesting question. Certainly, the old bullish argument that there’s still more economic pain in the system remains as valid as ever. There’s still plenty of toxic debt around, government deficits are still not really under control, and although so far the stimulus hasn’t generated the inflation everyone expected, it’s hard to avoid the conclusion that that inflation is still stored up in the system and poised to burst out.
On the other hand, economic news out of the US is better, and although Greece continues to lurch from one crisis to the next, the Eurozone as a whole has looked more stable this year. Whether the Eurozone itself is viable remains open to question, but any shocks occasioned by its potential disintegration may not now be as severe as some of the shocks that are already in the rear view mirror.
China remains a concern in terms of the quality of its data and the rate of its slowdown. But actually, as far as gold bugs are concerned, China on the whole is good news. More wealth creation means more buyers for gold, and a real pillar of strength in the demand for physical that the major price dips have brought out into the open.
Over at broker RFC Ambrian they note that traditionally an ounce of gold has held its value against the price of a good suit. This though, then prompts the debate as to what actually constitutes a good suit. TM Lewin? Gieves & Hawkes? Savile Row?
And in a sense, the same argument could actually be made about the dollar itself. What actually is a dollar worth? The answer today is 1/1,294ths of an ounce of gold. But depending on whose making the dollars and why, it could be a whole lot different in a few months time.
Source >>> www.minesite.com
*****
explod
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[QUOTEHere though, the argument that central bankers are to blame appears to become somewhat circular. Let’s assume that gold is indeed the “barometer” of economic conditions. If it was an effective and fully functional barometer it wouldn’t be subject to serious manipulation by anyone. ][/QUOTE]
This is exactly why it is manipulated down, because it is a true barometer of economic health.
Thanks for posting up Drininto
This is exactly why it is manipulated down, because it is a true barometer of economic health.
Thanks for posting up Drininto
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Yes, there was something happening on Thursday with gold equities even before gold was still to fall another $60. Just end of year house keeping to improve the ledger or something more substantial?
What platform/software is that chart from?
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Chart is from Bloomberg
I reckon it was more than just end of quarter stuff, US EoFY is Sept30 and Canada I believe is Dec31. So it probably has some legs to run, esp seeing the way the junior goldies bounced o/n.
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Interesting chart here from APF comparing the gold price movements to the classic 'bubble' pattern... two different views.
Gold is a classic bubble - it follows the typical pattern precisely. Goldbugs. The time to panic... is now.
Gold is a classic bubble - it follows the typical pattern precisely. Goldbugs. The time to panic... is now.
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http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/gold-slide-isn-t-over-184734466.html
The Gold Slide Isn’t Over
The Gold Slide Isn’t Over
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Well I guess The Australian Property Forum would know all about bubbles and would be an authority on gold? The pot calling the kettle black?
skc
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While I can understand the perspective, I don't understand how you use that value gold.
Unless we get goods and services being quoted in gold ounces, gold has no value aside from the amount of fiat currency we can get in return.
Having goods and services quoted in gold ounces is essentially a gold standard, which is something I am definitely not advocating. In fact what I would like to see is the opposite, I would like the price of physical gold to be truly set free. I think this process is occurring right now.
Paper money is good, and is here to stay. The way I see it, paper money bids for all exchange, but only gold bids for paper money. e.g. Of your annual gross, on average, 4 months goes to the Government, 7 months to pay your living expenses and 1 month to add to the "capital account". Paper money works well for 11 of those 12 months, and to the extent that everybody is holding some to pay taxes and living expenses, it is an adequate short term store of value. But when it comes to that final month of adding to the capital account, a long term store of value is required, so you would bid for some physical gold with 1/12 of your annual gross.
A couple of articles which might help understanding my perspective better
http://goldswitzerland.com/what-is-key-for-the-price-formation-of-gold/print/ (I don't agree with all of the authors viewpoints here, but the stuff about gold price formation is spot on)
EDIT: Obviously the "economic motivation" here is to buy a long term "store of value" which can be hoarded without impacting the economy, is not a claim on someones future cashflows, is scarce and is liquid.
http://fofoa.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/inflation-or-hyperinflation.html
explod
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The problem with the charts above for gold is that the general public have not even heard of gold yet.
In fact, I read somewhere about three years back, that less than 0.5% of the investment community have been involved in this gold bubble so far.
So is it really a bubble?
Or a relic of a time when money was backed by real tangible assets (such as gold) and productive work?
And in the following, suppression of gold by the banks is to fake that all is ok:-
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldn...s_-_This_Will_Crash_The_Financial_System.html
In fact, I read somewhere about three years back, that less than 0.5% of the investment community have been involved in this gold bubble so far.
So is it really a bubble?
Or a relic of a time when money was backed by real tangible assets (such as gold) and productive work?
And in the following, suppression of gold by the banks is to fake that all is ok:-
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldn...s_-_This_Will_Crash_The_Financial_System.html
explod
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prawn_86
Mod: Call me Dendrobranchiata
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I still want to know where i can get over the 'paper' price, for my physical gold. Can you help?
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