Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Global Warming - How Valid and Serious?

What do you think of global warming?

  • There is no reliable evidence that indicates global warming (GW)

    Votes: 8 5.2%
  • There is GW, but the manmade contribution is UNPROVEN (brd),- and we should ignore it

    Votes: 12 7.8%
  • Ditto - but we should act to reduce greenhouse gas effects anyway

    Votes: 46 30.1%
  • There is GW, the manmade contribution is PROVEN (brd), and the matter is not urgent

    Votes: 6 3.9%
  • Ditto but corrective global action is a matter of urgency

    Votes: 79 51.6%
  • Other (plus reasons)

    Votes: 7 4.6%

  • Total voters
    153
(cont.)

A.J. Tom van Loon, PhD, Professor of Geology (Quaternary Geology), Adam Mickiewicz University, Poznan, Poland; former President of the European Association of Science Editors

Anthony R. Lupo, PhD, Associate Professor of Atmospheric Science, Dept. of Soil, Environmental, and Atmospheric Science, University of Missouri-Columbia

Richard Mackey, PhD, Statistician, Australia

Horst Malberg, PhD, Professor for Meteorology and Climatology, Institut für Meteorologie, Berlin, Germany

John Maunder, PhD, Climatologist, former President of the Commission for Climatology of the World Meteorological Organization (89-97), New Zealand

Alister McFarquhar, PhD, international economy, Downing College, Cambridge, U.K.

Ross McKitrick, PhD, Associate Professor, Dept. of Economics, University of Guelph

John McLean, PhD, climate data analyst, computer scientist, Australia

Owen McShane, PhD, economist, head of the International Climate Science Coalition; Director, Centre for Resource Management Studies, New Zealand

Fred Michel, PhD, Director, Institute of Environmental Sciences and Associate Professor of Earth Sciences, Carleton University

Frank Milne, PhD, Professor, Dept. of Economics, Queen's University

Asmunn Moene, PhD, former head of the Forecasting Centre, Meteorological Institute, Norway

Alan Moran, PhD, Energy Economist, Director of the IPA's Deregulation Unit, Australia

Nils-Axel Morner, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics, Stockholm University, Sweden

Lubos Motl, PhD, Physicist, former Harvard string theorist, Charles University, Prague, Czech Republic

John Nicol, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Physics, James Cook University, Australia

David Nowell, M.Sc., Fellow of the Royal Meteorological Society, former chairman of the NATO Meteorological Group, Ottawa

James J. O'Brien, PhD, Professor Emeritus, Meteorology and Oceanography, Florida State University

Cliff Ollier, PhD, Professor Emeritus (Geology), Research Fellow, University of Western Australia

Garth W. Paltridge, PhD, atmospheric physicist, Emeritus Professor and former Director of the Institute of Antarctic and Southern Ocean Studies, University of Tasmania, Australia

R. Timothy Patterson, PhD, Professor, Dept. of Earth Sciences (paleoclimatology), Carleton University

Al Pekarek, PhD, Associate Professor of Geology, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences Dept., St. Cloud State University, Minnesota

Ian Plimer, PhD, Professor of Geology, School of Earth and Environmental Sciences, University of Adelaide and Emeritus Professor of Earth Sciences, University of Melbourne, Australia

Brian Pratt, PhD, Professor of Geology, Sedimentology, University of Saskatchewan

Harry N.A. Priem, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Planetary Geology and Isotope Geophysics, Utrecht University; former director of the Netherlands Institute for Isotope Geosciences

Alex Robson, PhD, Economics, Australian National University Colonel F.P.M. Rombouts, Branch Chief - Safety, Quality and Environment, Royal Netherland Air Force

R.G. Roper, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Atmospheric Sciences, School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, Georgia Institute of Technology

Arthur Rorsch, PhD, Emeritus Professor, Molecular Genetics, Leiden University, The Netherlands

Rob Scagel, M.Sc., forest microclimate specialist, principal consultant, Pacific Phytometric Consultants, B.C.

Tom V. Segalstad, PhD, (Geology/Geochemistry), Head of the Geological Museum and Associate Professor of Resource and Environmental Geology, University of Oslo, Norway

Gary D. Sharp, PhD, Center for Climate/Ocean Resources Study, Salinas, CA

S. Fred Singer, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences, University of Virginia and former director Weather Satellite Service

L. Graham Smith, PhD, Associate Professor, Dept. of Geography, University of Western Ontario

Roy W. Spencer, PhD, climatologist, Principal Research Scientist, Earth System Science Center, The University of Alabama, Huntsville

Peter Stilbs, TeknD, Professor of Physical Chemistry, Research Leader, School of Chemical Science and Engineering, KTH (Royal Institute of Technology), Stockholm, Sweden

Hendrik Tennekes, PhD, former director of research, Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute

Dick Thoenes, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Chemical Engineering, Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands

Brian G Valentine, PhD, PE (Chem.), Technology Manager - Industrial Energy Efficiency, Adjunct Associate Professor of Engineering Science, University of Maryland at College Park; Dept of Energy, Washington, DC

Gerrit J. van der Lingen, PhD, geologist and paleoclimatologist, climate change consultant, Geoscience Research and Investigations, New Zealand

Len Walker, PhD, Power Engineering, Australia

Edward J. Wegman, PhD, Department of Computational and Data Sciences, George Mason University, Virginia

Stephan Wilksch, PhD, Professor for Innovation and Technology Management, Production Management and Logistics, University of Technolgy and Economics Berlin, Germany

Boris Winterhalter, PhD, senior marine researcher (retired), Geological Survey of Finland, former professor in marine geology, University of Helsinki, Finland

David E. Wojick, PhD, P.Eng., energy consultant, Virginia

Raphael Wust, PhD, Lecturer, Marine Geology/Sedimentology, James Cook University, Australia

A. Zichichi, PhD, President of the World Federation of Scientists, Geneva, Switzerland; Emeritus Professor of Advanced Physics, University of Bologna, Italy
 
wayne

sure there's some that challenge the IPCC
and sure you can't control climate - but you can nudge the steering wheel surely.

then - seen at from yet a different angle again (and this is the bit that I really enjoyed in recent months) the US was jeered at Bali.

As for that list , casual observation - but there's Singer and Ball again - I'd delete them from the petition if I was organising it - spoils it's cred... (I mean, you'll find their names on petitions claiming that smoking doesn't hurt you :eek:)
:2twocents
 
PS I take it , wayne, you think US should have stuck to their digs, and told the rest of the conference at Bali that they were gullible fools, and they USA weren't changing their wasteful and extravagent ways for anyone !

what are some of the spin offs here ?
planting trees - less destruction of exg forests - hard to imagine that's a bad thing (might even help a few critters survive the next decade / century)

less dependence on fossil fuels - ditto - (we're gonna run out anyways)

that's before we look at the "symptoms" of the patient - like coral reef etc
etc etc

My guess is that you're agreed with those things - yet ? for some reason you keep throwing up arguments, which for the life of me I can't understand where they are going
 
PS I take it , wayne, you think US should have stuck to their digs, and told the rest of the conference at Bali that they were gullible fools, and they USA weren't changing their wasteful and extravagent ways for anyone !

what are some of the spin offs here ?
planting trees - less destruction of exg forests - hard to imagine that's a bad thing (might even help a few critters survive the next decade / century)

less dependence on fossil fuels - ditto - (we're gonna run out anyways)

that's before we look at the "symptoms" of the patient - like coral reef etc
etc etc

My guess is that you're agreed with those things - yet ? for some reason you keep throwing up arguments, which for the life of me I can't understand where they are going
Illustration of my point that the world is shooting at the wrong target.
 
ok
think of it as a conspiratorial trick to get people to plant trees if you wish -
whatever

Trees are nice. The more trees the better, but won't ameliorate the pollution problem. (but may help in some instances of environmental degradation).

But still, more trees please (not enough to go around for all us tree huggers ;)).
 
Thaw?

It's the middle of winter up this end of the world.:eek:

Wayne my son is in UK at the moment and claims it's not that cold.

In case you're interested here's what the weather bureau stats say (for Dec 2007) ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ukweather/year_review/reviews/december2007_review_england.shtml

England Mean Temperature Series (series began in 1914). The provisional mean value for the month is 4.8°C , 0.5°C above the 1961-1990 average.

England Rainfall Series (series began in 1914). The provisional total for the month is 86.6mm 86% of the 1961-1990 average.

England Sunshine Series (series began in 1929). The provisional total for the month is 52.8 hours 117% of the 1961-1990 average.
 
Wayne my son is in UK at the moment and claims it's not that cold.

In case you're interested here's what the weather bureau stats say (for Dec 2007) ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ukweather/year_review/reviews/december2007_review_england.shtml
It's not. It's very mild. But one swallow does not a summer make, and I draw your attention to my post just a few down which included a photo of the snow from my car (as we sat there for six hours). We have had other freezing weather since I've been here as well. One day did not get above -2, which is also "not normal".

However, actual weather readings cannot be argued with, the cause of such can.

But you miss the thrust of my argument in focusing on AGW, and that is we should be focusing on the whole enchilada, not just CO2 emmisions.
 
wayne back to that BBC Weather report website...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ukweather/year_review/december2007_review.shtml

Jan :2006
England and Wales Mean Temperature Series (series began in 1914).
0.6 °C above the 1961-1990 average, which is in the above average category.

Feb 2006
0.2 °C above the 1961-1990 average, which is in the close to average category. Coldest since 1996.

Mar 2006
0.6 °C above the 1961-1990 average, which is in the below average category. Coldest since 1996.

Apr 2006
0.8 °C above the 1961-1990 average, which is in the above average category.

May 2006
1.2 °C above the 1961-1990 average, which is in the above average category.

Jun 2006
1.9 °C above the 1961-1990 average, which is in the well above average category.

July 2006
England and Wales Mean Temperature Series (series began in 1914).
The provisional mean value for the month is 19.0 °C
3.6 °C above the 1961-1990 average, which is in the exceptionally above average category. In fact it is the warmest month in the series - the previous warmest month was July 1983 with 18.6 °C.

Aug 2006
0.6 °C above the 1961-1990 average, which is in the above average category.

Sep 2006
3.2 °C above the 1961-1990 average, which is in the exceptionally above average category.

Oct 2006
2.4 °C above the 1961-1990 average, which is in the exceptionally above average category. Joint 3rd warmest in series with 1921 and 1995. Warmest in series was 2001 when 13.0 °C was recorded.

November 2006 in England
Temperatures exceptionally above average, with above average rainfall across most areas.

December 2006 in England.
An unsettled month with some heavy, thundery downpours especially in the second and third weeks.

January 2007 in England.
Mean temperatures ranging from around 1.5 deg C above average across the Northern Isles to over 3.5 deg C above average across some areas of central England. .....Provisionally over the UK, it was the warmest January since 1916, and 2nd warmest in areal series back to 1914

Feb 2007
0.2 °C above the 1961-1990 average, which is in the close to average category. Coldest since 1996.

Mar2007
Mean temperatures around 1 °C above average across Northern Ireland but generally around 1.5 to 2 °C above average across England, Wales and Scotland.

Apr 2007
An exceptionally warm month, with all climate districts and regions setting new April records for maximum and mean temperatures (areal series back to 1914). Maximum temperature anomalies were over 5 deg C above the 61-90 average across much of southern England and parts of eastern Scotland.

May 2007 in England
A wet month with some areas setting new rainfall records for the month. Mean temperatures above average, despite sunshine amounts below normal.

June 2007 in England
A warm and dry start to the month but becoming increasingly unsettled. A sustained spell of heavy rain over Lincolnshire, most of Yorkshire and the Midlands on 24-25th, with widespread flooding reported.

July 2007 in England
Another generally unsettled month with a notable rainfall event on the 20th.
Mean temperatures were generally close to or slightly below average

August 2007 in England
Largely settled at first and for the last week, but more unsettled around mid-month. Temperatures close to average, but still the coldest August since 1993.

September 2007 in England
Often fine and dry during the first half of the month. More unsettled during the latter with rain at times and becoming colder for a while.
Mean temperatures generally close to or slightly above average.

October 2007 in England
Mean temperatures were close to average across East Anglia and SE England to slightly above average across Northern Ireland and Scotland

November 2007 in England
Mean temperatures ranging from close to average across part of Kent and East Anglia, to well above average across Northern Ireland and Scotland.

December 2007 in England
The month divided into three roughly equal parts - an unsettled period for about the first third of the month, followed by a generally anticyclonic spell and further unsettled weather for the remainder of the month.

December 2007 in Scotland
Mean temperatures and rainfall close to average, but sunshine ranging from close to average in the south to exceptionally above average over northern Scotland.

December 2007 in Northern Ireland
Mean temperatures around 1 deg C above average for December, leading to 2007 being the warmest year in the Northern Ireland areal series, which began in 1914.

etc
I think you'd have to say that's a couple of years of pretty unusually warm weather yes?
 
wayne back to that BBC Weather report website...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ukweather/year_review/december2007_review.shtml



etc
I think you'd have to say that's a couple of years of pretty unusually warm weather yes?
It very well may be, but why? AGW or or something else?

In today's political climate, it is only permitted to draw one conclusion. As I keep repeating:

* If it's AGW, we can't now stop it. It's much too late and Kyoto is a joke.

* Too narrow a focus.

BTW, I have some nice parcels of land on Antarctica for sale, wanna buy one?

Hurry, selling like hot cakes. ;)
 
wayne,
one of these days you're gonna have to answer the simple question -

- is it worth at least trying to improve the situation we (suddenly) find ourselves heading into - given that the effort encompasses

a) more trees (which you like)
b) more critters
c) less pollution of all types
d) less waste of fossil fuels - leave a few drops of oil for the grandkids maybe
e) more thrift wrt all manner of waste
f) more recycling; and
f) David Suzuki would be proud of you ..
 
wayne,
one of these days you're gonna have to answer the simple question -

- is it worth at least trying to improve the situation we (suddenly) find ourselves heading into - given that the effort encompasses

a) more trees (which you like)
b) more critters
c) less pollution of all types
d) less waste of fossil fuels - leave a few drops of oil for the grandkids maybe
e) more thrift wrt all manner of waste
f) more recycling; and
f) David Suzuki would be proud of you ..

FFS!!! Hasn't that been my position throughout the whole debate? How disingenuous!! Please do me a favour and re-read my posts.

That is exactly what I am advocating. By the disproportionate focus on the nebulous possibility of AGW, less focus is placed on the above points. The world focuses on stupid electric cars and nuclear energy so we don't have to change our lifestyles, when the ONLY answer is to change our lifestyles.

I'm a card carrying greenie dude (in the practical, not political sense), that's obvious (Sarcastic quips about Hummers aside). So please don't insult me with your above inference.

Sheesh!! Talk about missing the point!!!
 
They have to start somewhere plastic shopping bags is a valid target.

I think they really need to "popularise" doing the right thing, get all the famous folks on board, movie stars etc, once they go green the sheeples follow! :D

You're ignoring my point about kitchen bin liners.
What's your suggestion here?
 
You're ignoring my point about kitchen bin liners.
What's your suggestion here?


Im keen for those to be ousted as well, lets go back to paper ! I cant hardly remember, isnt that what we used before plastic shopping bags came about ?

All the plastic/poly etc wrapping around food/shopping items is what irks me the most, 6 bags of shopping yields like 2 bags of wrappings, crazy.
 
Im keen for those to be ousted as well, lets go back to paper ! I cant hardly remember, isnt that what we used before plastic shopping bags came about ?

All the plastic/poly etc wrapping around food/shopping items is what irks me the most, 6 bags of shopping yields like 2 bags of wrappings, crazy.
Yes, there were heavy paper bags with rigid bottom and sides. No handles so very difficult to carry more than one at a time.
What about the woodchipping involved to make all the paper?

Agreed about the ridiclous amount of wrapping, especially on newspapers.
 
What about the woodchipping involved to make all the paper?


Weve pretty much mastered renewable pine plantations, just think of all that extra CO2 gobbled up in the process of growing all the extra trees needed for the Paper revolution !

Just need a renewable energy source running the chipping machines and fannys your aunt or atleast bobs your uncle :D

Better than this plastic that hangs around for thousands of years, we will eventually be forced to change once we are drowning under this garbage.
 
Yes, there were heavy paper bags with rigid bottom and sides. No handles so very difficult to carry more than one at a time.
What about the woodchipping involved to make all the paper?

Agreed about the ridiclous amount of wrapping, especially on newspapers.
Tescos over here have introduced a hessian re-usable carrier bag. This is similar to the green Coles ones in Oz, but instead of being polyester like the coles bags, they are hessian and fully bio-degradable. You also get points on your Tesco card for using them each time you shop.

Still ludicrous amounts of packaging on all the products though.:banghead:

Sainsbury's have made re-usable polyethylene bags recycled from the normal carrier bags. You buy the first ones, but if it breaks you trade it in for another for free, and the broken one is re-recycled.

I also believe the plastic singlet bags will be outlawed by 2009.

One district council in Devon has already outlawed them and it is a howling success, all the locals just bring their own re-usable bags. :)

On another vein... sort of off topic... there is a campaign here to encourage people to only buy free range chickens by exposing the cruelty of barn reared chooks. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/02/nchickens102.xml :xyxthumbs
 
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