General cryptocurrency market discussion

[over9k]

@Joe Blow Might be worth making this the general crypto thread or something? The discussion has been off just bitcoin for quite some time

 

[ducati916]

Why would governments use cryptos?
Their dream is the opposite!
They want a fully traceable highly corruptible and opaque digital currency that they can increase/ decrease the pool of behind the scene and more importantly seize or seize part of, directly implementing negative interests.
They might boast the crypto or blockchain words in the PR flyers but this is as far from BC based cryptos as can be.
Governments do not want cryptos at all, just a traceable highly centralised and controlled digital only currency.
That's my view ?

Agreed.

Essentially the narrative has changed quite radically and not only the narrative. Governments are now actually implementing what was previously simply speculation of the possible risks of banning or making illegal cryptos.

BTC as the premier crypto will not go to zero. It will reside in a parallel universe on the dark web or even possibly in the daylight. It will be very limited in its transactional use as this will be largely made illegal. It will be considered an asset class much as gold is held as an insurance against fiat.

I saw a youtube video where a 30 something posited BTC's value in 10yrs at in excess of $12M/coin.

Once the dust settles on this crash, it will be interesting to see (a) where it settles and (b) whether it can re-establish its mojo.

The other risk is that with the beginnings of Quantum computing, you just know the crims are going to be ahead of the curve. Passwords to wallets are going to be hacked and high values stolen, if of course the values return to current levels to even make it worthwhile.


jog on
duc

 

[qldfrog]

Agreed.

Essentially the narrative has changed quite radically and not only the narrative. Governments are now actually implementing what was previously simply speculation of the possible risks of banning or making illegal cryptos.

BTC as the premier crypto will not go to zero. It will reside in a parallel universe on the dark web or even possibly in the daylight. It will be very limited in its transactional use as this will be largely made illegal. It will be considered an asset class much as gold is held as an insurance against fiat.

I saw a youtube video where a 30 something posited BTC's value in 10yrs at in excess of $12M/coin.

Once the dust settles on this crash, it will be interesting to see (a) where it settles and (b) whether it can re-establish its mojo.

The other risk is that with the beginnings of Quantum computing, you just know the crims are going to be ahead of the curve. Passwords to wallets are going to be hacked and high values stolen, if of course the values return to current levels to even make it worthwhile.


jog on
duc

Agree on the fact quantum computing is blatantly missing from the crypto narrative, we could see the last bitcoins avalable mined very very quickly..might even be green?
Not sure the hacking will increase
Accounts can still be protected with dual factors log in etc

 

[waterbottle]

Yes it will be used, but it will be government crypto, not ponzi nerd crypto IMO.
The governments will just hijack it IMO.

X2 the IMF already have a working paper published on crypto and its implementation.

I don't see why any government would cede authority to some 3rd party especially when it comes to currency (I'll bite my tongue and admit the Fed is a quasi-3rd party though)

 

[over9k]

This conversation was had years ago back in the first big boom (2017 or so iirc). Only if/when bitcoin/blockchain becomes a threat to the power will they act. As long as it doesn't rock the boat in that way, they'll leave it alone.

But I suspect that time is getting sooner by the day.

 

[sptrawler]

Why would governments use cryptos?
Their dream is the opposite!
They want a fully traceable highly corruptible and opaque digital currency that they can increase/ decrease the pool of behind the scene and more importantly seize or seize part of, directly implementing negative interests.
They might boast the crypto or blockchain words in the PR flyers but this is as far from BC based cryptos as can be.
Governments do not want cryptos at all, just a traceable highly centralised and controlled digital only currency.
That's my view ?

My apologies frog, i thought crypto's were a traceable, highly centralised and controlled digital currency, which you were able to keep track of.

 

[Joe Blow]

@Joe Blow Might be worth making this the general crypto thread or something? The discussion has been off just bitcoin for quite some time

Yes, I think you're right. I have split off the non-Bitcoin related posts into this new thread for general cryptocurrency discussion. Those looking for Bitcoin price specific discussion can continue on in the Bitcoin price discussion and analysis thread.

 

[Garpal Gumnut]

As a contrarian I am attracted to Crypto as it is now a double contrary trading instrument.

The big league aka Western Governments and China scoffed at it. Then partially acquiesced. Then pounded it.

Buffett avoids it like the plague. Now that it is going to sh*t ,"experts" such as I are gut feeling a crash in BTC.

While pimply youths on YouTube are predicting a rise in price to $US100,000.

Volatility, I like. Fear and Greed are buzzing in my head. If it could be bought at a Romanian corner store all it's citizens would be into it.

gg

 

[over9k]

TBH I think it's actually reached such a confidence point that the dip buyers will rescue it from now on garpal. Not to say that it can't be, shall we say, dislodged, but it'd take a hell of a lot more to do it now.

At this point I just don't see what would do that.

 

[rederob]

Forbes has tried the latest blockchain offering.

 

[basilio]

Forbes has tried the latest blockchain offering.

Well that is very interesting...
I can certainly see why a China backed cryptocurrency will absolutely fly. I can also see why the US would be terrified of such a success. I wouldn't be surprised to see some serious attempts at sabotaging this effort. It would certainly give China a big space in the financial world which to date has been dominated by the US.

Ironically I think the support of millions of US and Western investors/speculators will be one of the driving forces behind any success.

This also highlights Chinas efforts at creating a financial system that can't be coerced by the US. In particular it would be a challenge to the Swift system of money transfer.

Special series: China lays digital groundwork for a new Silk Road

How China’s deployment of the digital yuan intertwines economics with geopolitics and concrete with virtual infrastructure, from Cambodia to the Caribbean.

forkast.news

 

[over9k]

China went & shut down a whole bunch of crypto mines because they were sucking so much power.

 

[mullokintyre]

From Kitco

London's Metropolitan Police just seized a record $249 million (£180 million) worth of crypto in its latest operation, which is part of a bigger investigation into international money laundering.

This is one of the largest crypto confiscations globally and also beats the UK's previous record of $158 million (£114million) set on June 24, the Met police said on Tuesday.

"Less than a month ago, we successfully seized £114 million [USD $158 million] in cryptocurrency. Our investigation since then has been complex and wide-ranging," Detective Constable Joe Ryan said in a statement. "We have worked hard to trace this money and identify the criminality it may be linked to. Today's seizure is another significant landmark in this investigation which will continue for months to come as we hone in on those at the centre of this suspected money laundering operation."

According to the statement, the Met's Economic Crime Command made both crypto seizures after the team received intelligence about the transfer of criminal assets.

I always thought that cryptos could not be siezed. The whole point of Blockchain technology was to make the tracebilty such that they could not be transferred without the ledger being properly updated and approved. Perhaps the alleged crooks involved gave up the passwords to their elctronic wallets in return for leniency in sentencing.
Mick

 

[noirua]

Stablecoins Could Challenge Banks and Drive Down Payment Costs: Federal Reserve Governor - The Daily Hodl

A member of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System is sharing his thoughts on the advantages of using private stablecoins over central bank digital currencies (CBDCs).

dailyhodl.com

 

[divs4ever]

RBA Begins Its First CBDC Experiment​

RBA Begins Its First CBDC Experiment

New dog, old tricks…a history of treachery…the decentralised money antidote…and more…It's finally happened. The RBA is taking the plunge on a central bank digital currency (CBDC)…..

www.moneymorning.com.au

quite obviously the RBA has stayed locked in it's ivory tower and hasn't observed the outstanding success of the EU as a single currency trading bloc

since all currencies rely on trust , maybe the RBA is trying to leverage the reputation of Singapore , in this little experiment

BTW , wasn't South Africa invited into the BRICS shared currency initiative several years back

 

[mullokintyre]

Well that is very interesting...
I can certainly see why a China backed cryptocurrency will absolutely fly. I can also see why the US would be terrified of such a success. I wouldn't be surprised to see some serious attempts at sabotaging this effort. It would certainly give China a big space in the financial world which to date has been dominated by the US.

Ironically I think the support of millions of US and Western investors/speculators will be one of the driving forces behind any success.

This also highlights Chinas efforts at creating a financial system that can't be coerced by the US. In particular it would be a challenge to the Swift system of money transfer.

Special series: China lays digital groundwork for a new Silk Road

How China’s deployment of the digital yuan intertwines economics with geopolitics and concrete with virtual infrastructure, from Cambodia to the Caribbean.

forkast.news

Not sure that a financial system that can be by coerced China would any better than financial system that can coerced by the US.
Mick

 

[divs4ever]

Not sure that a financial system that can be by coerced China would any better than financial system that can coerced by the US.
Mick

the problem is the willingness to be coerced , more than who is trying to coerce the financial system

Australia is already an island ( actually two big ones and some smaller ones ) we could raise the financial draw-bridge if we wished to

why are we so lured by 'the crowd ' we could easily be self-sufficient and self-reliant in all financial matters

 

[sptrawler]

Austrac seems to be getting itself wedged, between making the Banks responsible for money laundering compliance and wreaking havoc in peoples lives.
The Banks receive massive fines for not detecting money laundering, but are told to tread carefully when trying to avoid it, well that's what it looks like.
Well it looks like that, but it sounds like another Government dept wading around in water too deep for them.?

‘Devastating impact’: Austrac warns banks against ditching crypto dealers

The anti-money laundering regulator believes the mass debanking of cryptocurrency traders will lead to more criminal activity, not less.

www.theage.com.au

From the article:
The anti-money laundering regulator is warning banks against large-scale ‘debanking’ of customers for dealing in cryptocurrencies and remittance services, saying it expects deposit takers to have systems in place to differentiate good operators from bad ones.

Austrac issued the stern warning against debanking - where a bank stops dealing with a customer - amid concerns from operators in the cryptocurrency sector that they had been exiled from the Australian banking system because they ran businesses dealing in the blockchain-based currencies.

The regulator said the debanking of account holders can have a “devastating impact” on individuals and small businesses.
“The effect of debanking of legitimate and lawful financial services businesses can increase the risks of money laundering and terrorism financing and negatively impacts Australia’s economy,” Austrac said in its statement.

“For this reason, Austrac continues to discourage the indiscriminate and widespread closure of accounts across entire financial services sectors.”
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A Senate inquiry into Australia becoming a financial services hub recently heard evidencefrom small businesses specialising in trading cryptocurrency on the impacts of debanking – a now industry-wide practice.

The banks have in recent months defended their decisions to close accounts, saying they do so to ensure they are adhering to anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism financing laws.

Austrac brushed off that defence from the banks, saying it had higher expectations the banks would not deem a customer high risk because of the sector they worked in.

“Although the decision to close an account may remain a necessary risk control, Austrac considers with appropriate systems and processes in place, banks should be able to manage high-risk customers, including those operating remittance services, digital currency exchanges, not-for-profit organisations (NPO) and financial technology (FinTech) businesses,” the regulator said.

“Austrac expects banks and all regulated businesses to adopt a case-by-case approach to managing ML/TF (money laundering/terrorism financing) risks. This expectation extends to the importance in continuing to assess the particular risks relating to their business customers in line with the risk-based approach.”?


Now that sounds like a " we have a problem, you solve it", sort of explanation. The funny part is Austrac will fine them billions if they find that it was used for money laundering.

It's a shame AUSTRAC aren't listed on the asx, you could put me down for some of their shares.?

 

[grah33]

Buffet isn't buying bitcoin, a good point.
But Musk and others are ...

Perhaps it's being accumulated now by the players in this time of indecision.

 

[noirua]

Bitcoin sentiment in 'wild' divergence from reality as $53K BTC triggers 'extreme fear'

Bitcoin investors ignore the $55,000 BTC price tag as market sentiment dives to "extreme fear."

cointelegraph.com

All markets seemed to have dropped on the new South African coronavirus variant 'Omicron' that it seems is capable of forming more variants and the recent Covid-19 vaccinations may no longer be fully affective. Cryptos fell badly, gold shares in Canada and USA mainly fell again - a few resisted like DRD Gold NYSE: DRD which is however down from $17.71 to just over $9.00 and shares like this on high yields may be wanted. Other shares fell away with microcaps very weak in Canada, Europe, USA and UK.

Where to now for Bitcoin and Gold/ Silver and shares in general? Will Fiat currencies revive or will the likes of Bitcoin and Ethereum rebound? My own view is the same really that people buy the US dollar when fear sets in. As to fixed interest holdings in a higher inflationary environment they may seem poor value unless economies go into recession and the present boom reverses.