Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Gann, honestly, is it a good basis for trading?

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Got it.

What's that got to do with anything? No-one is being asked to give up their day job. It's about a structured, community-focused collaboration.

Teaching and seeing others progress can be the greatest reward. Not everything is about money and financial gain.
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I look forward then to seeing what can be produced.
I'll bet next to nothing.
Why---because there will have to be decisions made about what to adopt.
Everyone will have different opinions---as has been seen before. Typical lack of leadership.
An educator is a dictatorship.Think about it.
How many times has an attempt to develop a trading system been posted.

Nothing against the idea.
Think you'll find that those who can trade profitably wont be interested.
Maybe I'm wrong.

I'll particularly be interested in the live "walk forward" testing.
 
tech/a said:
I look forward then to seeing what can be produced.
I'll bet next to nothing.
How many times has an attempt to develop a trading system been posted.
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I don't think anything will happen either - too many people are infected with the "what's in it for me?" attitude. As I said, I was just thinking out loud.

Edit: For the record, I don't consider myself sufficiently expert at anything to teach it, but I would happily donate my time as an editor.
 
Yeh I know what you mean.
7000+ posts and its cost me $500 bucks and countless un paid hrs!:banghead:
 
Here's the completed post :)

bunyip said:
Sails

I got a smile by reading all those testimonials about how good David Hunt's forecasts are.
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LOL - I didn't read it all thoroughly – the site seems a bit more marketed now. I have met David Hunt on occasions at Trade Expos and he seemed to be fairly genuine. Never any hard sell of his products - which I appreciated. Have also met Bill McLaren on occasions and I feel he gives good value for money with his material. I have Bills ebook which is very good and came with Magdoran’s recommendation. In fact, if I wanted to pursue more study into the element of time, I would go for McLaren's DVDs before Hunt's course.

I guess I feel there is some unfinished business for me with the Gann stuff - I usually like to follow things through and have always felt a little frustrated at having paid so much money to get so little. Although, I’m not keen on doing a whole lot more study only to find it has limited results. Anyway, what caught my eye on the David Hunt's course was the topic list as follows:

"# Webinar Topic 1:
Forecasting By Time Cycles - Time Rules - Time and Space - How to Determine the Change in Trend - How to use Lost motion - How Long Should a Move Last? - Great Time Cycles - Filtering what is important

# Webinar Topic 2:
Part 1 The Basis of Gann's Biggest Trading Profits Webinar
Part 2 The Triangle Circle and Square

# Webinar Topic 3:
Deciphering the Gann [Square] Charts

# Webinar Topic 4:
Gann's Master Calculators - Uses and Abuses

# Webinar Topic 5:
Gann Square of Nine and How to Find its Best Uses

# Webinar Topic 6:
WD GannSoterica - Dancing with the Gods Planets Numbers and MPCs Time
by Solar Degrees (TM)

# Webinar Topic 7:
Putting it all together"
source: http://adest.com.au/gann/index-8week.html

Most of these topics were in the more advanced classes of SITM that I did not do due to the huge expense. Hence the somewhat impulsive interest on my part.

I suspect that, typical of people who are trying to sell courses, he spruiks about the ones that came true, but keeps quiet about those that don't.
For example, I don't see anything about his call in early 2008, when he said the US market would end the year 'significantly higher than where it is now'.
Yet that's what he said at an ATAA meeting at which he was the guest speaker in early 2008. I know, because I was in the audience and I wrote it down.
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It could well be true. The price of the course does seem fairly excessive when compared to McLaren’s material, and yet fairly cheap compared to others who string it out over several courses as a few grand each. I think the biggest thing for Gann educators is it's easy to show the factors that came together after the market has reversed. Then there is no need to show all the other factors that came together and didn’t actually produce a full on reversal. But that's just my opinion. I also think it appeals to people to be able to forecast making it an easier thing to market. People like to get things “right” but, as I had to find out the hard way, that rarely helps the cause of the trader.

David Hunt has for many years been in the business of organising trading workshops and seminars on behalf of high profile trading educators like Larry Williams, Dan Gramza and Jake Bernstein. More recently he's decided to personally cut himself a slice of the lucrative trading seminar business by running a seminar of his own.
The question is, can he trade himself? If he can't, then he's unlikely to have anything worthwhile to offer traders by telling them how he does things. .
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Yes, absolutely agree – one would need to ask such questions. I probably should have made it clear again that I am not recommending or endorsing the course. It simply had some appeal to me due to the topics being taught.

Having bought a couple of trading courses myself in my early years as a trader, and having been disappointed in every single one of these courses, I too am sceptical of people who make their living from selling courses. With the benefit of hindsight I should have insisted on seeing the last two years of trading statements of anyone whose course I was considering buying. No trading statements - no course purchase from me.
None of them would have complied with my request to show their statements, and I would have saved myself the cost of the course. Fortunately I never allowed myself to get roped in to paying the really big dollars for any course. $2500 was the most expensive one I bought. It lost me 11 of my first 13 SPI trades even though I stuck exactly to the rules.

If you ever get serious about David Hunts course, or anyone else's, I suggest you demand to see his last two years trading statements. If they're impressive, he won't hesitate to show them. If he won't show them, walk away.
When people are asked to pay thousands for a trading course, they have every right to expect to see concrete proof that the course owner is a very capable trader. .
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No plans to do so at this stage, but certainly good advice, Bunyip.:)

PS: I have no financial affiliation with Adest or McLaren.
 
Everyone: Please see:"Handbags at 20 paces" from 15th June 2007 in the "General Chat" area.

See posts 28 and 33 for a smorgasbord of links to my forecast posts made in advance with detailed charts and commentary.

Unfortunately I can't quote the posts for some reason, so please locate the thread and view it at your leisure.

People can also see the boxing match between tech and I had at the time, which reveals how he conveniently forgets things over and over again and tries to rewrite history (does he have Alzheimer's???).

I really don't want to have to revisit this all over again. All that I said is still accurate even today.

All the relevant posts have convenient links to access charts, and people can decide based on these projections if they think this is of interest or not, go back to that time and play the bars forward on their charts and see what they think.

Kind Regards

Magdoran
 
Tech did the same thing on the "Improving chart Analysis" thread too - just read through and see the same old behaviour.

Magdoran said:
Ok, let’s deal with the semantics and possible meanings when using the term “accuracy”...
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This was the beginning of a series of charts I put up aiming to give real time examples. Please note that this is not a style that lends itself to instant analysis. However the whole thread had some interesting discussions.

The idea in my trading style is to wait for the right set ups, and these occur in the minority of times and are not designed to trade the whole move but to trade the highest probability trades. Hence producing charts on demand is really a naive request. The market determines when there is a trade on. Our challenge as traders is to recognize the opportunities and take decisive action to capitalise on them.

McLaren talks about locating "fast moves" based on the pattern of trend. Time cycles give you an idea of when the trend may be at risk and help to project the potential length of a move in time. This is very useful if you're using derivatives.

Hope this helps!

Mag
 
Magdoran said:
People can also see the boxing match between tech and I had at the time, which reveals how he conveniently forgets things over and over again and tries to rewrite history (does he have Alzheimer's???).

I really don't want to have to revisit this all over again. All that I said is still accurate even today.


Magdoran
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I remember that thread , do you remember saying this ~__ The problem with both EW and Gann is that they are multifaceted, and very much an art.

In defense of Tech , why say that Alzheimer's insult ?
 
MS+Tradesim said:
I don't think anything will happen either - too many people are infected with the "what's in it for me?" attitude. As I said, I was just thinking out loud.

Edit: For the record, I don't consider myself sufficiently expert at anything to teach it, but I would happily donate my time as an editor.
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Why not a few of us take it in turns to pick a stock, outline why and talk it all the way through (by whatever our method to the final sell. I,d be in that and respect those who do not wish to reveal thier way.
 
Magdoran seems to have a favourable opinion of Bill McLaren. I think this is sound judgement, as Bill definitely has something worthwhile to offer. And he strikes me as a pretty genuine sort of a bloke too. I've spoken to him in person a couple of times after ATAA meetings at which he was the guest speaker, also had three phone calls to him that lasted a couple of hours in total. He's a down to earth sort of bloke who will help in any way he can.
Although he's a Gann man, I like the fact that he incorporates other types of analysis as well, some of which are just basic, common sense stuff that are nevertheless effective and useful strategies.
If anyone wanted some trading education that was part Gann and part more conventional analysis, Bill McLaren would be a worthwhile port of call.

I'm not affiliated with Bill in any way and I get no financial benefit from saying anything complimentary about him.
 
As long as a stock is declining one point per day, week or month or falling below or under the 45 degree trend line, it still is in a bear market and in a very weak position. When a stock rallies and crosses the angle of 45 degrees after a strong decline. Then you are ready to put the angles on the other side of the 45 degree angle. Which shows that the stock is stronger in a bear market and may be getting ready to change into a bull market

W D Gann .... The Basis of My forecasting Method
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[This is basic P&F where is does not belong


Wrong sort of Time

Wrong sort of Fluctuation/ Vibration



motorway


example
 

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The idea in my trading style is to wait for the right set ups, and these occur in the minority of times and are not designed to trade the whole move but to trade the highest probability trades. Hence producing charts on demand is really a naive request. The market determines when there is a trade on. Our challenge as traders is to recognize the opportunities and take decisive action to capitalise on them.
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Hows this for an example.
"Ive been waiting for this (insert reason for trade) to occur for sometime,its pretty rare.Its now a high probability trade in my opinion and this is the way I intend to trade it (insert Trade management here) like this."

We sit back and watch and learn more about Gann all the while asking you constructive questions in relation to your trade.

The only naive part of the above quote is expecting people to fall for your pathetic reason why you cant post a chart.

My PERSONAL view is that your dead scared that you wont be able to display consistent profitability.

Good to see you back moggie.
 
Well I would like to see a Gann analyst

Show what analysis would have predicted Forecast the CLV Bottom

Maybe they could draw a daily weekly or monthly chart

With the Gann trend lines --- Squaring of Time and Price

or astro analysis or what ever

All I did was draw one 45 degree line

P&F charts were naturally drawn on a squared grid
drawing lines squaring time and price came naturally

only the time here is not the static clock

But something else... and this difference is very important to all forms of analysis..

look forward to a chart

What a large Apex/coil ( Triangle ) appears in the recent action


motorway
 
gazelle said:
Bunyip Beamstas and other like minded Lemmings . I cant be bothered answering your simplistic and narrow minded questions anymore . Mushroom farming must be a lucrative business as you guys seem to be multiplying by the minute . Based on your assertion you seem to have already aquired a detailed and intuitive understanding on the techniques and applications of Gann so why ask me to outline the parameters of my trading system . And so it is another blinded Lemming joins the line . Thankyou for not raining on my parade and if you will allow me to offer you some advice may I kindly suggest that you migrate back to hotcopper in time for the mating season . in other words p+++ss off .
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I have seen the same sort of responses over at FF with some Gann Analysts.
Maybe there is too much expectation behind the style perhaps??
 
tech/a said:
The only naive part of the above quote is expecting people to fall for your pathetic reason why you cant post a chart.

My PERSONAL view is that your dead scared that you wont be able to display consistent profitability.

Good to see you back moggie.
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Here we go again.

Wake up to yourself.

If it was upto you, we would have a forum of EW and VSA.
 
Like most politicians the subject matter will be directed away from the topic.

I'm yet to see ANY consistently profitable Gann analyst in action and my personal opinion goes to all Gann Analysts not just Moggie in this case.

Anyone can step up to the plate.
 
Magdoran is an expert with options, do you really think you get that way by being a loosing trader?

Sounds to me like she has well and truly done her homework.
 
MRC & Co said:
Sounds to me like she has well and truly done her homework.
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lol, sorry if your a bloke Mag, must have got confused with 'sails'! :eek:

BTW, as you oppies cats are reading this thread, any of you know what happened to WayneL? Unlike him to just disappear, I really hope he is ok! :(
 
MRC & Co said:
lol, sorry if your a bloke Mag, must have got confused with 'sails'! :eek:

BTW, as you oppies cats are reading this thread, any of you know what happened to WayneL? Unlike him to just disappear, I really hope he is ok! :(
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Rotflmao! No, that surgery I had wasn't a sex change! I'm still very much a male. I also wonder what happened to Wayne.

Thanks for the support! Honestly though I've found it isn't worth it trying to reason with tech when he's got his head stuck in a bucket of sand.

His sense of reason seems to desert him when he gets emotional, especially when he's on the losing side of the trade. I have a crystal memory of his monumental back flip when he abandoned his precious tech trader in mid trade on a whim in mid to late 2007. No system based reason. He just got scared.

He'd been touting Tech Trader as the epitome of trading approaches, and then he abandoned it betraying his "gospel" where we were led to believe it was because some non-moving average based traders (I wonder if this included wavepicker and I) had scared the pants off him the bear market would set in (this being before the top in 2007).

Talk about having the courage of your convictions! I pity the poor people he didn't tell the game was up and were left in trades post the correction. So much for a demonstrated airtight system!

Regards

Mag
 
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