Australian (ASX) Stock Market Forum

Gann, honestly, is it a good basis for trading?

Honestly speaking this topic is probably one of the most hotly debated areas in technical analysis, and there are very valid comments which state that you must shut yourself out from the world. You read what goes on around you in order to be informed of CONSENSUS only. Apart from that, there is no debate that it can only be yourself thru your own efforts that will succeed.

On Gann, I will give my honest and personal experience. I began trading in 1994 and I first heard about GANN in the same year. I can honestly say that after 15 years there are still things to learn about this man's methods.

You can read his original work, rare writings, research from others and so on, read it 5 times, and think you understand, read it ten times and likewise. You may need to read and apply some of his concepts 100 or more times before it seems to show itself in the markets.

There have been some preliminary comments re Costa, Bowden etc, and to comment only on that, is being, quite honestly, very very narrow.

This man was without doubt the finest market technician in history. That comment is reserved only for those with a public profile. I have no doubt that there are people who remain anonymous that have been successful properly using his approach. Those that have, have managed to discover the truly best aspects of his techniques. Costa and Bowden et all I will tell you now have released rudimentory, and basic concepts publicly. Its dangerous to focus on any one persons application. Instead you MUST research heavily ALL there is available. And its a LONG LONG process. I don't think you can pick up much from publicly sold material. You will need to read as much as you can find whether commercially available or freely available.

If you are yet to find someone who is consistatly successful then its only because they have chosen to remain out of the public spotlight.

INTO 2006 I had patches of success here and there, and my fair share of failure. Along with many I could have just continued without any consistant success. I'll also tell you now that you will NEVER be able to uncover what is required if you have the distractions of a family, wife, and job. It just wont happen. The effort, hours and concentration, the ability to seek higher laws in our Universe and the ability to shut out everything else will be mandatory for your success of understanding this man.

Forget the stories you read about this man, and instead do your own due dilligence and research, and you will discover success unlike you have ever imagined. He has been heralded as the greatest, and he has been heralded as a FRAUD as well. Just like in trading you do your own detective work. Your own results will dictate what the truth is for you personally.

Since the financial debacle in the United States in 2007 I have discovered what I believe to be the essence of what you should apply with his techniques. I owe this to one person and that is William Gann. My best and most consistent results have come ONLY after applying this knowledge.

I'll need to streamline the rest of this response, as you can research and get nowhere with this stuff. GANN angles etc, FORGET IT, its not the essence of this man's work. The angles and commonly used methods are merely additional techniques to add confirmation to a decision. Used in isolation, and used without the core concept of GANNS work is a recipe for disaster.

There are 3 primary or core techniques that GANN used.

1. He was an excellent disciplinarian that could read and understand human nature and behaviour and trade at emotional extremes near tops and bottoms of significance consistantly. I know, I have been doing this for many months. Humans are basically predominantly lazy, behave with a herd mentality, and want things handed to them on a platter. Nowhere is this better reflected than in financial markets. In order to correctly apply this you will need to study back hundreds of years in your chosen market or as long as data will allow. Anything without 90 years or more of available data is to be IGNORED!!!! Your task is to understand and accept that humans DO NOT change. Their action and behaviour under certain conditions is guaranteed to repeat and rhyme with remarkable similarity. In fact this is so powerful that you can overlay charts from tens and hundreds of years ago, lineup and phase shift these charts and the price action and swings will lineup almost perfectly. I have given you one of his core techniques to forecast the future. Go back in time, find the same conditions fundamentally, and know where in your current chart it lines up with that period of history. This is an advanced form of technical analysis and pattern matching that beats the pants off of the so called patterns used by the masses. Its artificial intelligence models, but using your own effort and brain. Nothing can beat our own brains, and I doubt anything ever will.

2. Financial astrology. LAUGH all you want people, and I am sure many of you will switch off right now. There is a correct way to use astrology and I'll tell you now its nothing like the astrology you may think of. This form of analysis can be called an empirical study of the laws of our Universe. PALM reading et all is way off the mark, as is the more commonly understood methods of key geometric angles between the heavenly bodies. No sorry, not even close yet!!! You do indeed apply sacred geometry, but the natural ratios that occur in much of nature is applied very specifically to EACH individual markets HIGHS and LOWS of significance. Seek and ye shall find. You must understand astrological or astronomical concepts and the terminology involved in order to apply this, but the rest is a careful and painstaking empirical analysis of each individual markets highs and lows over decades or even centuries. TIP forget the commonly written methods in this area!!! Work hard and you will begin to see a universe whose laws humans still do not understand.

3. Mathematics and Geometry. This is quite a complex art. Some of the very basic techniques are with so called GANN angles and so on (personally I never use them). It goes way beyond the concept and application of basic geometry and instead shoud lead you to a better understanding of sacred geometry as applied by the ancients. You will need to truly understand the concepts of multidimensional physics, the ability to view time and price as one, and the ability to be able to view financial charts as a representation of higher dimensional physics. Having a background in maths, physics and engineering certainly helps, but it can be understood thru much effort and dilligence. Gann angles, time by degrees and so on, are extremely basic concepts, and they will only work if you apply all of the techniques properly.

I can say, that NOONE can teach any of this. You will have to learn it all thru your own hard work and effort. How about 60 hour weeks or more spent doing nothing else for years!!!!


I'll say now that 99.99% of people and that includes people reading this note will never make it. This requires a passion and willingness to learn unlike anything I have ever experienced. The only reason for my comment here is that I am sick and tired of the C%^$& that is out there, and I can only hope that there will come another person that makes the effort. If this e-mail encourages someone else to achieve success then its been an hour well spent.

As for me I'll go back into my hole, my little office in my house, somewhere here in our Great country, and continue my anonymous existence. Thank God I have been blessed with an understanding wife and I am free of the tyranny of daily life. I left my job in IT in 2006 and have never looked back. Mind you the ability to calculate the major turns and wait only for that moment is a skill I am sure virtualy noone can apply, even those with technical discipline. It takes a profound understanding of our Universe to correctly pinpoint.

You sir who started this thread, the answer is YES, this mans work is a reflection of a gift, and its a pity we as humans cannot undersand all there is to offer. But then again, thats why it will remain so secret, revered, and yet viled by so many.

Good luck, no, I'll finish with good effort.
 
The only reason for my comment here is that I am sick and tired of the C%^$& that is out there, and I can only hope that there will come another person that makes the effort. If this e-mail encourages someone else to achieve success then its been an hour well spent.

Well in my eye you might as well not bothered with this drivel.

Would of been ten thousand times more effective to just post your broker statements showing real evidence of your claimed success. But I'm sure you have many a reason why we will not see them.

Until then :rolleyes:
 
Well in my eye you might as well not bothered with this drivel.

Would of been ten thousand times more effective to just post your broker statements showing real evidence of your claimed success. But I'm sure you have many a reason why we will not see them.

Until then :rolleyes:

This is why i love you th :eek:
 
Well in my eye you might as well not bothered with this drivel.

Would of been ten thousand times more effective to just post your broker statements showing real evidence of your claimed success. But I'm sure you have many a reason why we will not see them.

Until then :rolleyes:

i don't think he knew who he was dealing with with

typing = 1 hour
shut down = 7 secs
 
seekandfind Re: Gann, honestly, is it a good basis for trading?

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This man was without doubt the finest market technician in history. That comment is reserved only for those with a public profile. I have no doubt that there are people who remain anonymous that have been successful properly using his approach. Those that have, have managed to discover the truly best aspects of his techniques. Costa and Bowden et all I will tell you now have released rudimentory, and basic concepts publicly. Its dangerous to focus on any one persons application. Instead you MUST research heavily ALL there is available. And its a LONG LONG process. I don't think you can pick up much from publicly sold material. You will need to read as much as you can find whether commercially available or freely available.


A very intelligent post. I liken him to the farmers and the buyers, who I lived among as a youth and who knew well the seasons and the markets for livestock and produce.

Gann used the technical side well but it was backed by his experience with the markets and its cycles but he particularly made himself aware of supply and demand. I too continue to return to his writing and always there are new insights.

Hope we see some more from you Seekandfind

cheers explod
 
Ive never seen a profitable Gann Trader.

Including the one who lectured the topic with the Securities Institute when I did T/A there.

He invited me to his home to watch him trade live.
I did and didn't see anything remotely looking like a trade.
Although I waited with baited breath.
Ive been on forums for 14 yrs and never seen ONE.

Seen lots of rich Gann Educators though!
 
Well, I definitely don't have enough knowledge about Gann techniques to make a constructive comment.

What I would like to say is a big ASF Welcome to seekandfind. Thank you for taking the time to post your views especially since you even chose a somewhat controversial topic.

I hope you will find it as rewarding as I do to contribute to this forum.

Cheers,

Kenny
 
I just looked out the window and saw a full moon.
Tomorrow im either going to short the SPI or long the SPI. To determine this i will watch the sky and if i see 5 or more shooting starts before sunrise i will go long. If i see less than 5 shooting starts i will go short. I will confirm my position by comparing todays date to the last recoreded date of having a full moon with 5 or more (or less) shooting stars in the sky. This will help me to determine what the market will do.

Of course i will provide broker statements to prove my huge profitability.

Brad
 
Ive never seen a profitable Gann Trader.

Including the one who lectured the topic with the Securities Institute when I did T/A there.

He invited me to his home to watch him trade live.
I did and didn't see anything remotely looking like a trade.
Although I waited with baited breath.
Ive been on forums for 14 yrs and never seen ONE.

Seen lots of rich Gann Educators though!

So you keep saying

Will preface by saying that i am neutral on the matter, im just an open minded newbie. Dont know a great deal about Gann either. I do know that must take commitment and sh*t of time to master, based on posts.

Alot of Darvas' success was attributable to shutting out the noise

Tech, ever occurred to you that some people purposefully stay away from the general public on trading matters because they dont want to subject themselves to an inordinate amount of probing, scrutiny and skepticism. Maybe they think that such an exercise would be futile and simply a waste of their time. Better spent with family, friends or going fishing.

Maybe they simply chose not to share their IP with people who they dont care about. Maybe they feel they need not prove anything to anyone except themselves.

I have no idea how many practice Gann, lets say its 5,000 or 10,000 nation wide. 3% profitable of 5,000 is 150 or 300. I am not sure if you will neccessarily come across any of them. Maybe their kind of analysis requires them to be somewhat isolated (from what I have deduced from posts). And if you practice EW or your are a swing trader, then jumping on public forums and sharing ideas and thoughts is more conducive to learning than if you employed gann methodologies??

Again, I am a newbie and I still absorbing what I can. I am also a natural skeptic, astrology, Jupiter, your anus... dunno about that. But equally, I understand that things are not as simple as "yes, i am a profitable gann trader, here are my results, and here is my methodology and rationale behind my decisions, its only taken me 12 years to master, but tech, here it is, summarized for you in the following 4 posts".

Just my thoughts.
 
"Alot of Darvas' success was attributable to shutting out the noise"

You will find alot of Darvas success came from trading micro consolodations and using sound risk management to cut his losses off short! I don't know what you mean by shutting out the noise? Some kind of tool to turn off your speakers i am guessing :rolleyes: Gotta love this little magic boxes that make the price go up :rolleyes:

Brad :eek:
 
Tech, ever occurred to you that some people purposefully stay away from the general public on trading matters because they dont want to subject themselves to an inordinate amount of probing, scrutiny and skepticism. Maybe they think that such an exercise would be futile and simply a waste of their time. Better spent with family, friends or going fishing.

Yeh sure.
Gann recieves as much type space as Buffett.
Thread after thread.
You'd think ONE LIVING trader would step up to the plate and say hey here is how its done live and here are my last 12 mths trading statements proving that it is being done.
If for no other reason to support those who get such a drubbing from the likes of me.

Yet most every other form of analysis has traders lining up with live trades and broker statements to boot!

Now aint that strange?
 
Yeh sure.
Gann recieves as much type space as Buffett.
Thread after thread.
You'd think ONE LIVING trader would step up to the plate and say hey here is how its done live and here are my last 12 mths trading statements proving that it is being done.
If for no other reason to support those who get such a drubbing from the likes of me.

Yet most every other form of analysis has traders lining up with live trades and broker statements to boot!

Now aint that strange?

I like what you have said T/A

Buffett and Gann similar

So many people think they can follow in their footsteps and copy what people before them have done but they will fail.

So many people aspire to be buffett and buy shares on "intrinsic value" that they sit around calculating off the company's balance sheet.

Im sure these people have done well in the last year! i'd love to see their broker statements ;)

The hard truth is no matter how much you try to copy buffett or gann, you will never be as successful as them. you'll just be another sheep in the herd of 100's of sheep trying to do the exact same thing.

The reason Gann and Buffett made money is because they did something different. They didn't just copy someone else!

Brad
 
The reason Gann and Buffett made money is because they did something different. They didn't just copy someone else!

Ive not seen any evidence that Gann actually made any real money from trading.

Buffett makes his money from CONTROLLING the company.
There arent to many aspiring Buffetts who do that.
So only a handful actually "Trade like Buffett" and most have no idea what it is they are aspiring too---ie Company control---to be a "Buffett" like trader.
 
Ive not seen any evidence that Gann actually made any real money from trading.

I have never seen any evidence either, but i would suggest that he did make some money

Else why would anybody even consider listening to his outlandish ways of trading the stock market


Buffett makes his money from CONTROLLING the company.
There arent to many aspiring Buffetts who do that.
So only a handful actually "Trade like Buffett" and most have no idea what it is they are aspiring too---ie Company control---to be a "Buffett" like trader.

Very true

Brad
 
"Alot of Darvas' success was attributable to shutting out the noise"

You will find alot of Darvas success came from trading micro consolodations and using sound risk management to cut his losses off short! I don't know what you mean by shutting out the noise? Some kind of tool to turn off your speakers i am guessing :rolleyes: Gotta love this little magic boxes that make the price go up :rolleyes:

Brad :eek:

Completely agree. He couldnt have had that kind of phenomenal success without those magic little boxes that he discovered. And based on his account, the same holds true for his ability to have removed himself from wall street and all that financial information that overwhlemed him. He talks about this being a large factor in his success as well.

After his initial and quick success, he was drawn to wall street. His rationale being that getting as close to the action would yield greater results and he would enjoy it a great deal more, than being on his own. But he soon discovered that he became just like those on wall street, like every other trader, alot of confusion set in due to be being overwhelmed with so much information, he struggled to think clearly and to think for himself. He began lacking confidence in his own ability because he started becoming influenced by other people's thoughts, ideas, advice, forecasts, news - noise. He ultimately lost 200K (or 100K?) of his newly acquired $500K , in a very short period of time, and concluded that he needed to leave all that noise (wall street) immediately

he removed himself from wall street and went somewhere remote, where he continued his dancing in clubs at night. As a result, he would get home very late (early the next morning), would sleep during the day (while Wall street would do its thing) and would wake up in the evening (when wall street was closed). When he woke , he would then analyse his EOD prices of the stocks he was monitoring or holding. These prices were delivered to him from his borker. Darvas also instructed his broker not to accompany the quotes with any advice, any recommendations, nothing but the requested quotes. He also told his broker never to call him, only to communicate via telegram. He didnt have charts , tech analysis, any subscriptions, any tips, just the prices of a handful of stocks, as well as updates from his broker as to where each of his open positions were heading.

He rediscovered his success, and made another $1.7m and got to his $2m

This is my understanding and memory of the book anyway. His story made sense to me and there seems to be a lot of merit in his method, and I am sure there are some who successfully employ such a method.

Cutting out the noise obviously worked for Darvas. Maybe it works for many traders today who we just dont see on these forums. For others it may make no difference whatsoever.
 
Completely agree. He couldnt have had that kind of phenomenal success without those magic little boxes that he discovered.

I really appreciate the background of Darvas, as i didn't know all that about him :)

I think i better let you know though, i was being sarcastic about those boxes! All he was doing was taking low risk entries and using sound money management! The boxes do nothing to the actual share price :eek:

Brad
 
Yet most every other form of analysis has traders lining up with live trades and broker statements to boot!

Fair comment. Was playing devils advocate but your point also makes alot of sense.

Having said what I have said, I actually wouldnt mind seeing the trading statements of the likes of Bronte and Battman. Probably some of the most annoying posters I have come across on ASF (am I aloud to say that? Hopefully I wont be struck by a shooting star).
 
Gann … I am of the opinion of do whatever it is that is working for you. Having said that, this is my more considered response to seekandlearn’s post. Initially I agreed with TH, that is was drivel. I still hold that opinion but in the interests of being fair and reasonable, if seekandlearn can be more specific on some points the post would be much more useful.

I can honestly say that after 15 years there are still things to learn about this man's methods.
OK - what is it that you have learnt, & what is a recent example of something you have just learnt, and what about that took 15 years to realise? If you can be specific here it may of help to some people interested in Gann.

You can read his original work, rare writings, research from others and so on, read it 5 times, and think you understand, read it ten times and likewise. You may need to read and apply some of his concepts 100 or more times before it seems to show itself in the markets.
This sounds interesting, what is it that needed to be read 100 times or so to make itself clear in the market?

This man was without doubt the finest market technician in history.
I am not sure of the claims made about Gann's wealth (a natural by-product of being a great technician ( maybe not, maybe he wasn't a great trader?)). But how would he compare to someone like James Simons, for example?

I don't think you can pick up much from publicly sold material. You will need to read as much as you can find whether commercially available or freely available.
Can you be more specific about what material is helpful and what is not?

If you are yet to find someone who is consistatly successful then its only because they have chosen to remain out of the public spotlight.
Surely there is one that could be found? Just one? One will do (at least as a start). Surely one is not asking too much? What about yourself - you have chosen to talk about your success with Gann, can you stay in the public spotlight just a little longer to show the non-believers a real life example of successful implementation/use of Gann?

the ability to seek higher laws in our Universe and the ability to shut out everything else will be mandatory for your success of understanding this man.
By higher laws of the universe do you mean stuff like physicists study at university etc?

I suppose I could go on, but you get the drift (hopefully).
 
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