Freedom of speech and protest

[dutchie]

I'd certainly vote for Arnie if I ever had the chance too.

As long as you vote for Wall St you will be a winner (although voting per se will be a pointless exercise).

 

[sptrawler]

I'd rather live in the US than North Korea for sure, but that doesn't mean that everything is rosy there.

The minimum wage is $7 an hour, exploitation levels, and there are lots of working poor.

Maybe Biden will do something about that, we'll see.

Since the outsourcing of manufacturing to third world countries, there is a lot of low paid jobs, or no work at all, the only ones who get richer are the rich who either own the companies, have high paying office jobs in the companies or have shares in the companies.
How Biden will turn it around is impossible to see IMO, Trump tried to bring manufacturing back to supply higher skilled and higher paid jobs, but you have seen how that went.
So in reality it will just be more of the same, I see China's Nio looks remarkable like a Tesla model 3, not to worry Tesla is making a factory in China, how long before the U.S one is shut down?
People wonder why there is anger, obviously a huge lack of perception, care or compassion I would say.

 

[IFocus]

I think the socialists have shifted their following mate, the only people I know who are strong left leaning laborites these days, are extremely rich.
It is strange, but obviously the working class believe they will get better recognition for effort, from the right side of politics.
Maybe the masses feel they aren't rich enough to support the rich and the poor? Maybe only the rich can see the benefits that the left promote, who knows.
In socialist countries you only see the rich, the poor are too busy working their ar$es off, from what I have seen.

SP the Socialist comment was sarcasm, any mooted changes to the US currently is always label a Socialist plot.

The workers voting Republican do so on the basis of being patriots and fighting against culture wars.

Read any thread here and you will see the same. Conservatives have long deployed this strategy.

Go and find one policy that the Republicans have put in place for the middle and lower classes that they haven't doubled for the rich.

 

[sptrawler]

SP the Socialist comment was sarcasm, any mooted changes to the US currently is always label a Socialist plot.

The workers voting Republican do so on the basis of being patriots and fighting against culture wars.

Read any thread here and you will see the same. Conservatives have long deployed this strategy.

Go and find one policy that the Republicans have put in place for the middle and lower classes that they haven't doubled for the rich.

Mate show me anywhere in the world where the rich don't get richer, the only way the working class can get richer is by giving them better paying jobs, not by being condescending and giving them better welfare while getting rid of their jobs.

 

[SirRumpole]

Since the outsourcing of manufacturing to third world countries, there is a lot of low paid jobs, or no work at all, the only ones who get richer are the rich who either own the companies, have high paying office jobs in the companies or have shares in the companies.
How Biden will turn it around is impossible to see IMO, Trump tried to bring manufacturing back to supply higher skilled and higher paid jobs, but you have seen how that went.
So in reality it will just be more of the same, I see China's Nio looks remarkable like a Tesla model 3, not to worry Tesla is making a factory in China, how long before the U.S one is shut down?
People wonder why there is anger, obviously a huge lack of perception, care or compassion I would say.

Yes, I agree.

I've said before that the only way around this is progressive tariff increases based on the difference between our average wage and that of the countries that we import from.

At least that will give local manufacturers/producers a chance of survival.

Sure the big companies won't like it and it's going to be a test of resolve for any government that tries to do this.

Otherwise Ch... will only get stronger economically, and that obviously means militarily as well.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes, I agree.

I've said before that the only way around this is progressive tariff increases based on the difference between our average wage and that of the countries that we import from.

At least that will give local manufacturers/producers a chance of survival.

Sure the big companies won't like it and it's going to be a test of resolve for any government that tries to do this.

Otherwise Ch... will only get stronger economically, and that obviously means militarily as well.

Absolutely, but why would the multinationals want to relocate their manufacturing back to high labour cost countries and reduce their profits massively? What is in it for them, nothing.
Who is the only politician who has demanded that the multi nationals do that? Who is now gone and being buried as a warning to any other politician who thinks it is a smart move?
Not that I care, people get what they deserve, the rich get richer and want to keep it that way. The last election in Australia showed people are at last joining the dots, the next Australian election will show if the momentum has continued.
Anyway drifting off topic, but it does all show, who owns the media owns the information.
The sooner the media gets paid by people who want to watch it, rather than the ones advertising on it, the better IMO.
Like I said earlier, the next media targets will be Boris Johnson and Scott Morrison, they are the only other two pushing the build it at home agenda ( Brexit and increasing foreign investment scrutiny) the elites will want all that stuff nipped in the bud.

 

[SirRumpole]

Absolutely, but why would the multinationals want to relocate their manufacturing back to high labour cost countries and reduce their profits massively? What is in it for them, nothing.
Who is the only politician who has demanded that the multi nationals do that? Who is now gone and being buried as a warning to any other politician who thinks it is a smart move?
Not that I care, people get what they deserve, the rich get richer and want to keep it that way. The last election in Australia showed people are at last joining the dots, the next Australian election will show if the momentum has continued.
Anyway drifting off topic, but it does all show, who owns the media owns the information.
The sooner the media gets paid by people who want to watch it, rather than the ones advertising on it, the better IMO.
Like I said earlier, the next media targets will be Boris Johnson and Scott Morrison, they are the only other two pushing the build it at home agenda ( Brexit and increasing foreign investment scrutiny) the elites will want all that stuff nipped in the bud.

Scott Morrison is pushing a "build at home " agenda ?

Are you talking about Defence manufacturing or a wider agenda ?

I must say I haven't heard that, but good on him if he is.

but why would the multinationals want to relocate their manufacturing back to high labour cost countries and reduce their profits massively?

They would'nt , but neither do they like having their IP ripped off or their executives arrested when convenient to other governments.

If tariffs even up the playing field in regard to costs, then they may find it's a lot easier to manufacture at home where they can manipulate politicians.

 

[sptrawler]

but why would the multinationals want to relocate their manufacturing back to high labour cost countries and reduce their profits massively?

They would'nt , but neither do they like having their IP ripped off or their executives arrested when convenient to other governments.

If that were true Tesla, VW, BMW etc wouldn't be building car plants in China, to them it is all about the bottom line, 1.5billion people in China, so you lose a bit of tech but you get to sell into that market and also manufacture there for export to high markup countries.
It really isn't that difficult, with multinationals it is the sum total of the game, not what you or I want, although is nice and romantic to think they actually give a rats about us. ? .
The media is all about the art of misdirection, keep the plebs running around in circles with pitchforks, while their houses are quietly being removed.
Who was the only one calling out China for stealing IP?

About 10 months after Tesla Shanghai delivered the first batch of locally made Tesla 3s, the US-based electric car company announced that it will export China-made Tesla 3s to a dozen European countries.

 

[sptrawler]

Scott Morrison is pushing a "build at home " agenda ?

Are you talking about Defence manufacturing or a wider agenda ?

I must say I haven't heard that, but good on him if he is.

The difficulty for Morrison, will be keeping a target off his back and staying under the radar, he has done well until now but the Chinese are getting agitated, he isn't playing to script.

Morrison government toughens foreign investment scrutiny to protect ‘national security’

Under a new national security test the foreign investment review board will have to be notified by foreign investors hoping to secure a ‘sensitive national security business.

theconversation.com

Taxpayers, CSL to build vaccine manufacturing plant

The Morrison government will spend $1 billion over a decade to underwrite the construction of a new vaccine production facility to guarantee the nation continues to have its own supply of flu shots, antivenins and, if another pandemic occurs, the sovereign capability to look after its own...

www.afr.com

PM pledges $400m to film industry in bid to bring blockbusters to Australian shores

Prime Minister Scott Morrison will visit the Gold Coast today to pledge $400 million in a bid to attract overseas investors but Screen Producers Australia say the focus should be on Australian productions.

www.abc.net.au

Scott Morrison names six priority areas in $1.5 billion plan to boost manufacturing

The federal government is selecting six priority areas for support in a $1.5 billion manufacturing plan Scott Morrison will outline in a pre-budget address.

theconversation.com

It is all really interesting stuff and we are a very small fish in a very big pond, but just my thoughts as usual. I find it all very interesting, but maybe I'm just bored.lol.

 

[SirRumpole]

If that were true Tesla, VW, BMW etc wouldn't be building car plants in China, to them it is all about the bottom line, 1.5billion people in China, so you lose a bit of tech but you get to sell into that market and also manufacture there for export to high markup countries.
It really isn't that difficult, with multinationals it is the sum total of the game, not what you or I want, although is nice and romantic to think they actually give a rats about us. ? .
The media is all about the art of misdirection, keep the plebs running around in circles with pitchforks, while their houses are quietly being removed.
Who was the only one calling out China for stealing IP?

About 10 months after Tesla Shanghai delivered the first batch of locally made Tesla 3s, the US-based electric car company announced that it will export China-made Tesla 3s to a dozen European countries.

Yes, isn't it amazing how these companies are falling for the same cr@p that China sold us ?

Get people dependent on them then put the boot in.

There must be morons leading some of these companies.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes, isn't it amazing how these companies are falling for the same cr@p that China sold us ?

Get people dependent on them then put the boot in.

There must be morons leading some of these companies.

No they are very smart people, they are becoming unimaginably wealthy, while the plebs run around in circles poking each other and being tribal. We are the morons, by believing everything we are told by the media, but that is in our subservient DNA all just a fact of life IMO.
Que Sera, the only glimmer of hope IMO, was the result of our last election and Brexit they stopped the wave in its tracks. For the moment.

Like I said Rumpy, just watch the screws start on Morrison/ Johnson and try to stand back and analyse it.
Just my opinion.

 

[sptrawler]

Wow, this is a powerful speech and sums up my feelings on the matter.

Would that be another millionaire, telling us how lucky the plebs in the U.S are? ?

 

[basilio]

Would that be another millionaire, telling us how lucky the plebs in the U.S are? ?

Nah. Clearly didn't take an opportunity to view it or you wouldn't have made such a totally off point comment.

 

[DB008]

Double Standards ?

.​

 

[sptrawler]

Nah. Clearly didn't take an opportunity to view it or you wouldn't have made such a totally off point comment.

Your right I didn't view it and I do like Arnie, so I thought i had better watch it.
As usual a great production very moving and appropriate music in the background.
My parents and grandparents were in the war in the U.K, so I do know what he talks about in relation to the war and a father who beat up the wife and kids.
What I have a problem with, is comparing disenfranchised and unhappy U.S citizens making a statement and comparing it to Nazi Europe.
As I posted earlier, there was a situation in the U.S in the 1960's, where students protesting against the Vietnam war were shot.
The U.S is a melting pot of volatile politics and as has been shown on many occasions emotions boil over there, that is why I don't understand it and don't claim to.
But I'm sure they could get just as high a profile person, to explain exactly the same reasoning for the other side, the problem is those who believe everything on face value. But the Conan sword was impressive and I can see how you were moved, that is another 7 minutes of my life i will never get back.

 

[moXJO]

. But the Conan sword was impressive and I can see how you were moved, that is another 7 minutes of my life i will never get back.

How could the Conan sword not sell it for you?
And nazis don't forget them. Oh plus you become a wife beater if you don't lick boot. Come on sp that speech had it all.

 

[sptrawler]

Nah. Clearly didn't take an opportunity to view it or you wouldn't have made such a totally off point comment.

Another thing Bas, while we are having a laugh, it wasn't long ago you were holding Trump to account for his immoral female indiscretions.
Now you are using someone to judge him morally, who apparently was banging the cleaner, guess as long as the story fits just shove it in. ?
Seems to work for you.

 

[sptrawler]

Jeez I hate to be drawn into the nuts and bolts of this issue, but this guy is right, Twitter has no right to suspend Trumps account, when they see fit.
They are a media carriage of information, if they disagree with what is being said they can put in bold highlights, flashing lights, bloody neon signs that they disagree with what is being said.
But they have no legislated right to ban someone from saying something, without approval, otherwise they become a self appointed censor of the presidents internet information.
Which is fine when the pitchfork crew agree with the censorship, what happens when someone who is espousing their beliefs is shut out?
The whole thing is weird, we the public are handing over our moral compass to someone who own's a website, where does that end.
This is the whole problem with pitchford crowds running public opinion.
It really is heading towards a confrontation between media run countries, as opposed to government run countries, which has to end up with draconian legislation or mayhem.
The media takes down, what politicians say about the coverage, the politicians get frustrated by being misrepresented by the media, the circle gets more vicious then the manure hits the fan.

Senior ministers take aim at Trump social media silencing

Acting Prime Minister Michael McCormack says Twitter has gone too far in removing Donald Trump from its platform.

www.theage.com.au

 

[basilio]

Well you have seen it SP and had a couple of goes at it. Has to be value there somewhere - even if you might not get the point.

The issue was the monstrous lies that Trump produced to whip up his MAGA army into attacking the Capitol with a view to overthrowing Congress. It was about the use of a private army to overthrow the State. The connection to Kristallnacht or the Night of Broken Glass, was very apposite reflecting a mob violence orchestrated by political influence.

It is all very well to talk of "emotions boiling over". But this was far more than that. It was about the BIG LIE of a stolen election. Constructed, repeated, embellished and relentlessly pushed on his Republician colleagues and his supporters in an effort to steal an election he clearly and soundly lost.

You see SP et al Trump has never won anything fair and square in his life. He has always rigged the game. Bulldozed any opponents. Just made up zhit to enable him to claim "Victory" . For instance it sounds so puerile,but check out the reality behind his claim that he won 18 club championships at golf.

Arnie called Trump out as a liar and a traitor. He also called out the critical Republician politicians who accepted his brazen lies and then tried to beat the drum of overthrowing the result. These are the actions of a would be dictator. I would be confident that an investigation into the whole affair will come up with that conclusion. But we'll see.

I suppose the core of the situation now is that the Trump supporters on this forum are still actively rooting for him or pretending that what has happened wasn't in fact sedition but "emotions boiling over". Very quaint. Sounds like the sort of excuse made for a lynch mob doesn't it ?

I can't say I'm surprised. You guys have invested a huge amount of ego on relentlessly supporting this guy. It would be a very courageous decision to say "Hey. Hold it. He has gone too far now. This is wrong. I won't support these actions."

---------------------------------------

SP I'm bewildered by your attempt to say I was judging Trump on his sexual behaviors and now supporting someone who had an affair.

I mean WTF ? Firstly these personal behaviors have absolutely nothing to do with Trumps behaviour as politician and a demagogue. Arnie called out his lies and his attempt to lead a political coup. So throwing this rubbish up is completely and utterly irrelevant.

But secondly if, you want to raise the sexual behaviors issue, the criticism of Trump was two fold.

Firstly he flat out lied about the consensual sexual relationships he had and used election funds to buy silence.

Secondly he flat out denied at least another 25 accusations of sexual misconduct brought by women from all walks of life who were abused by Trump. And this denial came after he was caught on a hot mike boasting about his aggression on women.

 

[sptrawler]

Bas, it is all because you read it or heard it on the internet, what if Trump was trying to say this is BS, stop printing this stuff.
But they don't print it?
This is the problem they are under no obligation to print anything, but the masses believe everything.
Like I said a while back, I was involved in a strike i could P.M you with the details but won't put them online. What happened completely destroyed my belief in the fact the media print the truth. They print what suits them and that is dependent on who they are beholden to at the time.
So you go blindly along believing everything that aligns with your beliefs, but don't for one minute think it is an accurate representation of the truth.
I'll leave it at that.
Your beliefs are the result of living in a bubble IMO.
There is an old saying " believe what you see and half of what you hear", I think that applies a lot more these days.
Not to say Trump was in any way a person I would want to associate with, but it is very coincidental the only President that has taken on the multinationals, has been absolutely destroyed.
Maybe it is just a coincidence, but I really don't believe in coincidences that much.
Also I actually don't give a rats, I live by the motto allow for the worst, hope for the best. Also the saying 'change what you can accept what you can't'.
So What happens in the U.S I'm going to have no affect on, so really do i give a $hit? No
People going on, that the media has every right to say what they like and misrepresent everything they like. Well that does affect me and Australia, so I hope it doesn't get all out of control here, where facebook(which I'm not a member), or that twitter thing decides what I can read or not read. POl POT was bagged for doing that.