Freedom of speech and protest

[basilio]

This man did not come from the ranks of the right/center right... Pulleeeze.

He self identifies as Eco fascist. That is not anything to do with the mainstream right.

Does that include Tommy Robinson and Co ? One Nation and the other groups demanding Muslims leave Australia ?

 

[basilio]

Tell them to kill all lefties instead
And anyway terror attacks are part and parcel of living in a big city.
Is that the comment you need and want?

You can be classier than that MoKJo.
This guy was intent on making a big statement. He wanted to leave a visual legacy of what it was like to murder scores of people he classified as invaders.

He wants to inspire scores of compatriots to take the next step. The question is whether they will be encouraged to begin new massacres or will people with decency ensure they are stopped.

 

[wayneL]

Does that include Tommy Robinson and Co ? One Nation and the other groups demanding Muslims leave Australia ?

TR et al have never promoted violence. Stop being a putrid and divisive POS and conflating Tarrants murdering with anything else.

Or shall we start conflating the left with Islamic terrorism?

 

[moXJO]

You can be classier than that MoKJo.
This guy was intent on making a big statement. He wanted to leave a visual legacy of what it was like to murder scores of people he classified as invaders.

He wants to inspire scores of compatriots to take the next step. The question is whether they will be encouraged to begin new massacres or will people with decency ensure they are stopped.

Those on the right are the only ones that will be able to move some of these guys away from the extremes through a lot of dialogue. Unfortunately groups have already infiltrated political parties and have a very large following among young people. Being "pushed" and "shamed" has also caused the movement to be seen as an underground resistance. They see themselves as part of a war. And are training accordingly.

With every ban, every sledge, every negative fake media story more are filtering over. There is also a huge propaganda effort being waged to capture more minds.

Think its all school yard stuff... A senator is on board and the nationals were compromised. Goes a little higher than that. Leftists groups are also being infiltrated.

As for the event that took place. Without getting long winded, its purpose was to divide. And push for what is known as "accelerationism". There is a large list of these guys that are close to activating. And its not "free speech" causing it.

And anyway terror attacks are part and parcel of living in a big city.

This comment was made by Sadiq Khan..

Kill all lefties a play on "kill all men".
The language is on both sides. And when you have one group in power and able to ban thought and speech it starts to cause a fight back.

I was working with a group to try and bring those on the extreme back. In the end it involved too much time that I didn't have. Changing someones views takes huge amounts of time and personal connection. You are also fighting against other groups filling their heads.
It felt like a waste of time in the end.

Center right and right will be the key to change. But them being vilified as "nazis"
simply makes them stand back.
Look at Jordan peterson and how he is vilified. At what point of abuse do you get to before you say: "fvck the bull$hit let em burn".
It gets worse and worse some more before it gets better.

 

[basilio]

Those on the right are the only ones that will be able to move some of these guys away from the extremes through a lot of dialogue

Agree.
The hard question however is at what stage do people report a person they think is dangerously unstable, unable to be moved and presents a threat to society ?

Nothing easy here. I can understand your frustration.
The challenge is that political groups often have a range of members. As you noted there are extreme groups that have infiltrated more mainstream organizations. And in happens in all groups.

 

[basilio]

On one level I wonder how the anti terrorist squads would view posters on 8 Chan who applaud the actions of the killer and download and refeed footage of the murder ?

If that isn't incitement to violence I can't imagine what is.

 

[moXJO]

Agree.
The hard question however is at what stage do people report a person they think is dangerously unstable, unable to be moved and presents a threat to society ?

Nothing easy here. I can understand your frustration.
The challenge is that political groups often have a range of members. As you noted there are extreme groups that have infiltrated more mainstream organizations. And in happens in all groups.

And in my experience the kids of those on the extremes take up their parents views. My biggest worry is that once you reach a critical mass of extremists its next too impossible to stop it snowballing.

 

[moXJO]

On one level I wonder how the anti terrorist squads would view posters on 8 Chan who applaud the actions of the killer and download and refeed footage of the murder ?

If that isn't incitement to violence I can't imagine what is.

Its a very monitored site by security agencies. But extremely difficult to detect who will do what. There are darker sites out there.

 

[DB008]

What will those on the right/ Centre Right of politics do to expose the maddies and stop this terrorism from within their ranks?

Are we on the same page or just being manipulated by the media?

This is a screen shot from part of his manifesto:

 

[Darc Knight]

TR et al have never promoted violence. Stop being a putrid and divisive POS and conflating Tarrants murdering with anything else.

Or shall we start conflating the left with Islamic terrorism?

It's pretty poor form. 50 people are DEAD, scores are injured and all Bas can do is pursue a personal vendetta firstly against Christians by falsely claiming the attack was done by a "caped Christian crusader" now pursuing vendettas against others.
Then she tries to play the victim herself.

Meanwhile every reasonable person is calling for calm.

 

[bellenuit]

Unbelievable attack on Chelsea Clinton.

Majiid has his say

 

[explod]

Can probably never ever change anything, the presence of religions and cults besides money are the prime cause of hate and violence. Kept apart no problems, bt as in "The Golden Bough" by Frazer, religion via the tribal witch doctor system were created and put in place to control the people. The bigger ones under such things like the Bible allowed The Ruling lords to control who countries.

Once a child has been indoctrinated from the cradle then it's impossible without a good formal education to ever change that person.

We can take away all the guns and lock them up forever but new youngsters will continue to rise against their religious enemies.

We do know the answers, like climate change but because of control/power and "the money Ralf" it's just party time AS USUAL

 

[basilio]

So the manifesto (allegedly) takes the killer across a wide range of political/social postures.
What are we to make of it ?
That is he just a "normal white guy" who wants to protect his homeland from the invaders ?
That we should "understand" his position ? Sympathize with his righteousness? Follow his path ....

I think it is a cunning piece of work. There is bit there for everyone isn't there. Left, Right, Socialist, Nationalist. Certainly doesn't want to come across as a "maddie".

Of course not. This is supposed to be a heroic, rational response to the invasion of the European homeland.

Just shoot the xshit out of them in their places of worship.

IMV poisonous

 

[moXJO]

The songs he played on the car radio.
The finger signs in court.
The markings on his gun.
Location.
Manifesto.
His comments.

All designed to play media and social media. And to divide everyone further. A lot of it was 'in house' jokes.

There was a comment on 8chan that its time to push those at the center to pick a side. And it was time to push their agenda into the mainstream.
8Chan , 4chan all troll.

 

[basilio]

It's pretty poor form. 50 people are DEAD, scores are injured and all Bas can do is pursue a personal vendetta firstly against Christians by falsely claiming the attack was done by a "caped Christian crusader" now pursuing vendettas against others.
Then she tries to play the victim herself.

Meanwhile every reasonable person is calling for calm.

You really have a bee in your bonnet DK. You may well fall off my Christmas Card list if you continue with this ...... stuff.

You have been told, repeatedly, the CCC line was not directed to Christians as such. OK ? Is that clear. Stop messing about. It is not becoming of you.

Pursuing vendettas against others ? Puhluuze !! This guy comes from an extreme right wing play book. He is playing back into an audience that is volatile, dangerous and ready to rumble. MoXjo offered some of the most sobering comments from, it seems, first hand understanding of the situation. I take his points seriously

I think the queries I raise about how organisations deal with the anger that has been created is valid.

 

[Darc Knight]

You really have a bee in your bonnet DK. You may well fall off my Christmas Card list if you continue with this ...... stuff.

You have been told, repeatedly, the CCC line was not directed to Christians as such. OK ? Is that clear. Stop messing about. It is not becoming of you.

Pursuing vendettas against others ? Puhluuze !! This guy comes from an extreme right wing play book. He is playing back into an audience that is volatile, dangerous and ready to rumble. MoXjo offered some of the most sobering comments from, it seems, first hand understanding of the situation. I take his points seriously

I think the queries I raise about how organisations deal with the anger that has been created is valid.

You're not worthwhile even listening to or replying to. It's all just self interest personal vendettas.

 

[qldfrog]

Just want to say
@moXJO that you post #444 above is of premium lucidity and accuracy
Obviously will pass well above the head of our brainwashed left wing fanatics here

 

[SirRumpole]

I can see a lot of computer bots roaming through social media with analysis programs deciding who the crackpots are and whether they should be put on watch lists.

The Christchurch killer should have been identified as a possible subject of further investigation. Trouble is that there are a lot of crackpots and not enough resources.

Now NZ wakes up to the fact that it's gun laws are seriously out of date. They should have taken a lesson from Howard years ago.

 

[Smurf1976]

Now NZ wakes up to the fact that it's gun laws are seriously out of date. They should have taken a lesson from Howard years ago.

I hold Howard in reasonably high regard on account of that action alone.

Didn't agree with many of his ideas but it takes a real man to stand up to the gun lobby and he did so extremely well.

 

[moXJO]

My biggest worry is that once you reach a critical mass of extremists its next too impossible to stop it snowballing.

This covers all extremists. Imported or home made.