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Food, diet, facts and myths

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SirRumpole said:
Cooked eggs don't have a salmonella risk, only raw or undercooked ones and even then the risk is pretty low.

Basically any food is a salmonella risk.
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Salmonella isn’t my main concern, but it’s just part of the list of reasons I avoid eggs.

My main reason is the chickens that get abused to produce them, and the fact they don’t contain any nutrient that isn’t readily available in other foods.
 
Value Collector said:
How so?
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In terms of diet / nutrition arguing with Vegans is the 1st sign of insanity.........seriously.

Humans can survive on eating pretty much anything, the issue is your diet OK to be living at optimum, what is your bio availability and what is happening at cell level and below both in up take and waste?

The potato vid is (sorry) folksy BS quoting some thing obscure from the 20's when todays science around athletes diets is seriously complex, individual and disciplined focused plus much much more.

In terms of morality meat etc pretty much agree with your arguments.
 
moXJO said:
Cut sugar. Sugar is in fruit as weĺl so you have to limit your intake.
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Fruit is fine if you have no blood sugar issues, its the added sugar thats the issue and its sneaky where it is in a "normal" diet.
 
IFocus said:
Its easy but a couple of things 1st

1. Completely ignore VC, daughter is in her final year of a masters in dyslectics only talks evidence based science and the vegan thing doesn't cut it(how to start an argument 101 :) ).

2. Helps if you do some sort of activity to help see the benefits I surf and ride a bike getting the feed back reinforces the good eating habit

3. I have always been pretty lean (genetics ) and active surfing all my life and never afraid to have a crack at size, eaten pretty well.....by people around me standards, cholesterol levels at or below recommended, blood sugar etcs always good yada yada.
diagnosed last year with cardio vascular disease (no symptoms) an ended up with two stents in the LAD its in my family both sides and back down the generations......sorry son cop that.

Spoke at length to the cardiologist after the stents been put in about diet, alcohol, exercise etc.

Diet was no sugar, no hi GI, no saturated fats, allowed two standard drinks a night.

Spoke to the daughter to confirm.

No sugar is obvious and a big one, hi GI foods are OK but always the smallest portion on the dish examples are pasta, potato, white rice, a lot of breads example he gave was if eating a chicken white bread sandwich throw the bread and eat the chicken.
Saturated fats like sugar and salt are very sneaky pastries, cakes, biscuits, processed foods you dont need them.
Lean meat is fine as are eggs.

Alcohol, two standard drinks a day are a net benefit for cardio vascular disease have three and its a net negative, note for cancer its a net negative to have any.

Any way after reading labels and doing the above actually dropped 7 kilo (I did not think I was carrying more than a couple at most) my endurance is double and at 60 years old I ride around a 100 km a week and hardly feel it, I am still riding a short surf board and yeah I am jumping out of my skin in terms of fitness diet plays a really big part.... not all of it but a big part of it.

1 week wont make any difference at least 3 to 4 months to see any benefits.


VC that vid on potato is a shocker.
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Short board at 60 is a good effort...or just luck/genes.

Heart vessel stents are the latest in a long line of surgeries which don't outperform placebo surgery (ie. cut open and close). Not only were you stable, but you were aysmptomatic.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/12/...stable-patients-theyre-still-widely-used.html

My relationship to medicine and medical research is at a point where I believe very little of what is published. I'm more inclined to do whatever feels good in the moment, whether that be vegetables or Maccas, Tahitian spring water or Jaegerbombs.
 
In terms of morality meat etc pretty much agree with your arguments
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Are you taking any steps to align your actions with your moral beliefs?


IFocus said:
In terms of diet / nutrition arguing with Vegans is the 1st sign of insanity.........seriously.

Humans can survive on eating pretty much anything, the issue is your diet OK to be living at optimum, what is your bio availability and what is happening at cell level and below both in up take and waste?

The potato vid is (sorry) folksy BS quoting some thing obscure from the 20's when todays science around athletes diets is seriously complex, individual and disciplined focused plus much much more.
.
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I don’t think anyone here is arguing.

Are there any vitamins or minerals that you believe you can’t get from a vegan diet?

When it comes to bio absorption, some of the biggest problems come from meat and dairy products, eg. Over 50% of the population has trouble with lactose intolerance, so they aren’t absorbing much from the dairy products or any other food eaten with it, they are just pooping it out.

And given that the heart attack causing plaques that build up in arteries are pretty much all from animal fats and cholesterol, I don’t think our bio absorption is great when it comes to these products either.
 
Gringotts Bank said:
I tried a so-called 'healthy' diet for the umpteenth time, but still find it makes no difference. I keep trying because everyone tells me how great they feel when they eat "clean". However, I feel exactly the same on a Trump-style KFC and Maccas diet as I do a Green-voting, yoga-instructing, #allergictoeverything diet. I lose a tiny bit of weight on the latter, that's about all.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science...l-to-heart-when-eaten-with-mediterranean-die/
https://sciencetrends.com/mindset-an-often-overlooked-factor-in-nutrition-and-health/
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Have you tried the carnivore diet? A lot of people are getting good results from that. Basically animal products only although you don't have to be super strict if you don't want to. It might be what works for you.

Some personal stories here:

http://meatheals.com/
 
Gringotts Bank said:
Short board at 60 is a good effort...or just luck/genes.

Heart vessel stents are the latest in a long line of surgeries which don't outperform placebo surgery (ie. cut open and close). Not only were you stable, but you were aysmptomatic.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/12/...stable-patients-theyre-still-widely-used.html
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Luck/genes certainly play a part

Interesting reading your link but then this?

"The follow-up was only at six weeks, so longer-term outcomes aren’t known. "

So my own experience / observations.

Issue showed up via a stress test, angiogram showed severe narrowing in the LAD.

Issues and choices, any plaque detachment in the LAD would meant blood clots and I would hit the ground dead with little to no chance of survival you know the story super fit guy drops dead confirms to people you shouldn't exercise :).

If I chose meds to mitigate blood clotting I would still be limited by the blood supply to the heart muscle and still at risk of LAD blocking (although reduced) given the length of the narrowing plus be exposed to rapid blood loss due to possible injury living my adventurous / risk taking live style (giddy up you get just one shot at this life make it count).

Stents, risks for my age group and level of fitness is very low, maximise blood flow to the heart muscle allowing me full potential of active life style and with a wider blood vessel reducing risk of death should blood clothing occur as a result of plaque peeling off.

My mother had a triple by pass at 60 still going strong at 87.

The decision to have stents was mine after discussion with cardiologist (30 years experience) and the cardiologist who did the procedure (Associate professor).

After the procedure, 30 year experience doc said 2 days after do what ever you want exercise wise, Associate professor said 2 weeks after and keep heart rate at below 80% ish of maximum for maximum benefit minimum risk and long term survival.

I always been anal measuring my fitness when riding, time, speed and distance (now heart rate).

After the procedure I had a minor increase in fitness.

Two months after the stents went in I had a step change in fitness I couldn't explain speed went up effort when down recovery time decreased.

My hydration now is 1/3 of what I needed pre stents diet and weigh will account for some but nott all.
 
@Gringotts Bank continued...... none of the above is how I feel its being actual improvement and a lowering of future risk (risk of heart attach remains).

All this and the knowledge that my grandfather passed away at 55 same issues and they were known but no effective treatment we are lucky to live in this age.

Will it have extended my life span?........will tell you if I reach 90 :).
 
Value Collector said:
Are you taking any steps to align your actions with your moral beliefs?
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I was raised in a farming family where you would causally stroll down the paddock and dong some one on the head and they would be on the dinner table that night so culturally from a very different back ground.

My meat consumption has never been that high after leaving home how ever my moral beliefs are not totally aligned to yours but understand and accept your arguments.

Value Collector said:
And given that the heart attack causing plaques that build up in arteries are pretty much all from animal fats and cholesterol, I don’t think our bio absorption is great when it comes to these products either.
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There is quite a bit more than that such as the adhesion to the artery wall the combination of sugars, glucose, starches, triglycerides and and a predisposition to cardiovascular disease that affects one person and not another my brother life time farmer, complete meat eater he is perfectly OK.

Diet is not just one thing for all one reason why vegan / plant based is not the cure all for all things its complex and different for most thats before you start dealing with allergies , diabetes and renal issues.
 
@Gringotts Bank, A final comment / observation post op is most people I meet that have had stents are still over weight and haven't modified their diet / life style which is curious.
 
IFocus said:
I was raised in a farming family where you would causally stroll down the paddock and dong some one on the head and they would be on the dinner table that night so culturally from a very different back ground.

My meat consumption has never been that high after leaving home how ever my moral beliefs are not totally aligned to yours but understand and accept your arguments.



There is quite a bit more than that such as the adhesion to the artery wall the combination of sugars, glucose, starches, triglycerides and and a predisposition to cardiovascular disease that affects one person and not another my brother life time farmer, complete meat eater he is perfectly OK.

Diet is not just one thing for all one reason why vegan / plant based is not the cure all for all things its complex and different for most thats before you start dealing with allergies , diabetes and renal issues.
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I come from a farming family also, I used to hunt and spear fish every free weekend for most of my 20’s.

But just because you have always done something, doesn’t mean you always should.

The heart foundation recommends eating more plant based foods, cardiologists recommmend people recovering from heart attacks reduce meat consumption ( or they put people on pills to try and counteract the effects of he meat they consume)

I agree diet is not everything, but it is probably 90% of the cause, the saturated fats and cholesterol from animal products are literarily the building blocks hat cause clogged arteries, and vegan diets have. Even shown to reverse the damage.

When my Nanny has her stroke, the first thing the doctor did as part of her recovery was to put her on anti cholesterol pills, if she was vegan, she wouldn’t need those pills everyday.
 
IFocus said:
@Gringotts Bank, A final comment / observation post op is most people I meet that have had stents are still over weight and haven't modified their diet / life style which is curious.
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Doctors just prescribe pills to reduce cholesterol absorption, rather than actually treat the cause.
 
Value Collector said:
I come from a farming family also, I used to hunt and spear fish every free weekend for most of my 20’s.

But just because you have always done something, doesn’t mean you always should.

The heart foundation recommends eating more plant based foods, cardiologists recommmend people recovering from heart attacks reduce meat consumption ( or they put people on pills to try and counteract the effects of he meat they consume)

I agree diet is not everything, but it is probably 90% of the cause, the saturated fats and cholesterol from animal products are literarily the building blocks hat cause clogged arteries, and vegan diets have. Even shown to reverse the damage.

When my Nanny has her stroke, the first thing the doctor did as part of her recovery was to put her on anti cholesterol pills, if she was vegan, she wouldn’t need those pills everyday.
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A few points worth mentioning:
- The heart foundation are terribly wrong on the cause for heart attacks. High saturated fat and cholesterol intake is not proven to cause heart issues. LDL is correlated with heart attacks, but is not caused by consuming cholesterol. It's also not just the amounts of LDL/HDL, it's far more nuanced than that. LDL particle size matters a lot, which is not considered in the usual lipid panel.

- As such, statins work in some situations, but not all. There's a huge amount of information out there on Statins, and I'm no expert, so I'll stop here and just suggest that people read about it.

- Metabolic syndrome is more closely related to heart problems, through diabetes and carrying too much visceral fat.

- Fructose (of which regular 'table' sugar is half fructose half sucrose) is a big factor in causing metabolic syndrome.

Please don't take these at face value, but just read about them.

What I've found out to date has changed my mind completely on healthy eating. I avoid grains, high GI carbohydrates and any sugars when I can. I practice intermittent fasting daily, and fast for longer periods (2-3days) on a quarterly basis. Exercise in the form of heavy lifting and HIIT (sprints, bike riding, etc.) is also in there.

I highly recommend anything by Rhonda Patrick, Dominic D'agostino or Peter Attia. Very good listening/reading.
 
VC blanket statements just are not accurate for each individuals situation its a case of treatment and diet to suit the person and to measure the results after to confirm there effectiveness.

kloggs comments are inline with my understanding.

Pills or statins, aspirin and clopidogrel are the likely meds your Nan was prescribed

Statins reduce or block the LDL production of the liver not the absorption in my case combined with diet lowered the HDL from 3 to below 1.8.

Asprin and clopidogrel are used to reduce blood clots reducing the risk of stroke and heart attack.

Those like me that are predisposed to cardio vascular disease can at best manage the issue not stop or reverse the process its far more complex than just saying become a vegan you you will be fine.

The advise I received was all evidence based on the current understanding of the issues. diet was part of that being a vegan wasn't all though I dont think it would do much harm being one as an adult.
 
Family history and indigestion plus was having one every 5 years, stress test is 80% accurate plus they are not that expensive. My indigestion was real not angina.

Interestingly at least to me was the issue showed up in my recovery not the run up doing the stress part.

The bloke doing the test said it was likely a false positive given how fit I was............cardiologist said nope you have a problem.

Had a angiogram (went in through the wrist) took the cardiologist about 10 secs to find the problem.

During the stent procedure they actually block the blood supply off as they expand the blood vessel using a balloon and you get some angina (not severe) and there is bugger all difference between angina and indigestion at least for me.

Its pretty surreal you get to see the whole gig as it takes place.

I asked for some thing to relax me the cardiologist said no worries we have a cupboard of good stuff, he told the nurse to give me a few grams of some thing with a long name, she turned up and connected a syringe full of some thing and fired it into my drip...............wack man life was instantly good...book me in next week could you :roflmao::roflmao:

The technology is pretty amazing.
 

Exactly what you need to eat to lose weight and live longer​

A poor diet causes obesity, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and type 2 diabetes, all of which are risk factors for cardiovascular disease.

Sam Rice
24 Jan, 2024

Low-fat, high-protein, paleo, keto; diet fads come and go but as any credible nutritionist will tell you, the truth about food remains the same: the key to a long and healthy life is a balanced diet.
A poor diet causes obesity, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and type 2 diabetes, all of which are risk factors for cardiovascular disease. Obesity is also linked to 13 different cancers including post-menopausal breast cancer and bowel cancer.
Beyond obesity there is a range of other issues that can result from an unhealthy diet. Skin conditions such as psoriasis are exacerbated by a high intake of sugar and saturated fat, nutritional deficiencies can affect hair health, and there is growing evidence that a balanced diet is important for sleep. One large study found a lack of key nutrients, such as calcium, magnesium and vitamins A, C, D, E and K, to be associated with sleep problems.

Healthy eating patterns, such as the Mediterranean Diet, which includes plenty of whole foods, healthy fats, fibre and lean protein, are associated with better mental health than unhealthy eating patterns such as the typical Western diet, which includes lots of processed foods, sugar and saturated fat. Indeed, a number of Australian studies have found significant reductions in depressive symptoms among participants when diet quality was improved.

A 2022 study found that switching from a typical Western diet to one with a higher intake of wholegrains, legumes, fish, fruits, vegetables and nuts while reducing red and processed meats, sugar-sweetened beverages and refined grains could increase life expectancy by 10.7 years for women and 13 years for men.
Thankfully, some basic nutritional knowledge, a well-stocked store cupboard, and a little time spent planning and preparing meals is all it takes to turn things around. Your pathway to a healthier, balanced diet starts here.

What is a balanced diet?​

A balanced diet is one that fulfils all of a person’s nutritional needs with the right mix of macronutrients (carbohydrates, protein and fat) and micronutrients (vitamins and minerals). According to nutritionist and author Dale Pinnock, aka “the medicinal chef” and creator of the new online weight management program The Metabolic Fix, it simply means a return to basics.
“Focus on building your diet around whole foods, the kind of things your great-grandparents would have eaten. Fruit, vegetables, nuts, seeds, wholegrains, high-quality lean and plant proteins, and healthy fats. Get that right and it’s 95 per cent of the battle won.”

A balanced diet is the cornerstone of good health. In the short term, you’ll sleep better, feel more alert and positive and have sustained energy throughout the day. Over the longer term, eating well improves gut health, supports immunity and protects against many chronic diseases, such as heart disease, diabetes and cancer. But it’s not just the obvious health gains that a balanced diet brings, there are wider lifestyle benefits to be had.
“You may be more inclined to exercise or hydrate properly if you are taking time to consider your dietary choices,” says registered dietitian Ro Huntriss. “Taking more time over your meals and what you eat can also make cooking or eating a more social time and can improve relationships, if this is something you enjoy doing together with a partner, family or friends.”

The calorie/energy balance​

Traditional thinking goes that our weight is simply a function of the calories we eat versus the calories we burn, also known as the energy/balance equation, but as Huntriss points out, the picture is more complex than this and what we eat needs to be considered alongside how much we eat.
“Fruit and vegetables are high in nutrients but low in calories, so they can be eaten in relatively large amounts. Wholegrain carbohydrates provide slow-release energy throughout the day, reducing cravings. Consuming enough lean and plant-based protein helps you to stay full and supports muscle mass, which in turn supports your metabolic rate, meaning you can burn energy while at rest. Healthy fats are important nutritionally but should be consumed in smaller amounts as they are calorie-dense.”
Focusing on the quality of our diet rather than traditional calorie restriction is an idea gaining traction for weight loss.
“The food choices we make influence all the important factors of weight management,” says Pinnock, “from the hormones used in food metabolism, such as insulin, leptin and ghrelin, to how effectively we can exercise and recover, to how well we sleep and manage stress.”
Portion control is an integral part of a balanced meal. Overeating any food, healthy or otherwise, can lead to weight gain.
— Dale Pinnock, nutritionist and author
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Another crucial element when it comes to weight loss is satiety or how full we feel after eating. Restrictive or very low-calorie diets can leave us feeling hungry all the time. Conversely, by eating lean protein at every meal and including fibre and healthy fats, our appetite is far better regulated and we are less likely to experience cravings and subsequently to overeat. For example, a slice of wholegrain toast topped with tinned sardines and served with a mixed salad provides fabulous nutrition, is very filling, and clocks up only 350 calories.
Overeating any one food will compromise the variety in your diet, as you won’t be as hungry for other foods, and it can have other negative consequences.

“Portion control is an integral part of a balanced meal,” advises Pinnock. “Overeating any food, healthy or otherwise, can lead to weight gain.”
Indeed there are some healthy foods that are extremely calorific, so it’s important to watch portion sizes when you’re watching your weight. For instance, nuts contain 180 calories per 30g and a medium-sized avocado comes in at 320 calories.
An easy way to approach portion control when trying to lose weight is to use the 20 per cent rule. Try taking 20 per cent less food than you usually do, wait, and then have more only if you are genuinely still feeling hungry.

Components of a balanced diet​

The best practical way to ensure you are eating a balanced diet is to think about the relative proportions of the various food groups that comprise your meal. Pinnock has a foolproof method for this called the perfect plate system.
“Fill half your plate with non-starchy veg, such as leafy greens, broccoli and cauliflower. Fill a quarter of your plate with high-fibre, slow-burning carbs like brown rice, quinoa or root vegetables. In the remaining quarter, have a portion of high-quality protein – meat, fish, eggs, tofu or tempeh. Composing meals in this way will increase your satiety hormones, stabilise your blood sugar, and give you a high level of variety in your diet.”
A lack of time is often cited as the main obstacle to eating a balanced diet; indeed, our best intentions can go out the window when we are busy. Don’t worry, our experts’ have a few top tips for staying on track when you’re time poor.
“I am a fan of batch cooking, as organisation is the key,” says Pinnock. “When you do have a bit of time at the weekend, cook your favourite meals in three, four or even five times the normal amount, then freeze individual portions. You’ll soon stockpile your freezer with healthy home-cooked food.”
Huntriss swears by planning and buying ahead every week, and eliminating unhealthy snacking. “Plan your meals and snacks for the week and buy the ingredients you need in advance so you will stick to it. This avoids the temptation of takeaways and ready meals.
“Choose healthy snacks like Greek yoghurt, fruit, vegetables with hummus, or a handful of nuts. It is too easy to focus on balanced meals but still continue with mindless snacking, which can sabotage your diet.
 
Switching out Sodium Chloride for Potassium Chloride.
Helps b.p but a mild caution if you have kidney issues. Been doing it myself while also reducing salt overall. Taste is fairly comparable

www.sciencealert.com

Research Shows One Easy Diet Swap Can Reduce Blood Pressure And Heart Attacks

One in three Australian adults has high blood pressure (hypertension).
www.sciencealert.com www.sciencealert.com

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