Federal Labor Party discussion

[rumpole]

We will use tax payers money to support these companies.

I wouldn't mind that, but if they are going to do it, then get a share of the company like any other investor.

Get the company to issue Preference shares and the government injects capital for a return, don't just GIVE any company money.

 

[sptrawler]

I wouldn't mind that, but if they are going to do it, then get a share of the company like any other investor.

Get the company to issue Preference shares and the government injects capital for a return, don't just GIVE any company money.

Agree completely, but I don't think the handouts have had that rider on them, to this point. We are talking $30billion to the car industry, in recent years.

Christ, we could have bought one of the companies out, and given all Australians a 'free' car

 

[rumpole]

Agree completely, but I don't think the handouts have had that rider on them, to this point. We are talking $30billion to the car industry, in recent years.

Christ, we could have bought one of the companies out, and given all Australians a 'free' car

I'm not a member of the ALP so I don't have to justify everything they do.

I think the ALP was dumb to give handouts to the car companies without security, but I also think it's dumb for the LNP to let these industries disappear over short term adversities like the exchange rate.

 

[sptrawler]

I'm not a member of the ALP so I don't have to justify everything they do.

I think the ALP was dumb to give handouts to the car companies without security, but I also think it's dumb for the LNP to let these industries disappear over short term adversities like the exchange rate.

It's not the exchange rate, it's that nobody is buying their product.

Holden and Ford have never been serious about developing a viable car industry in Australia.

It took the Labor Party and John Button to bring them kicking and screaming into the 20th century. Prior to the Button plan, they were protected by a 57% import tarrif and produced a crap product.

Since then, they haven't tried to improve economies of scale and develop a viable export market. They prefered to open factories in Asia and run the Australian factories on taxpayer funded profits.

I'm suprised that you think we should tax workers, to pay the wages of other workers.
Don't you think workers have enough to pay for?

 

[rumpole]

It's not the exchange rate, it's that nobody is buying their product.

Holden and Ford have never been serious about developing a viable car industry in Australia.

It took the Labor Party and John Button to bring them kicking and screaming into the 20th century. Prior to the Button plan, they were protected by a 57% import tarrif and produced a crap product.

Since then, they haven't tried to improve economies of scale and develop a viable export market. They prefered to open factories in Asia and run the Australian factories on taxpayer funded profits.

All that is true. US car makers are the automotive equivalent of bogans. Having a locally owned industry that is responsive to the needs of local buyers would improve the product and sales.

I'm suprised that you think we should tax workers, to pay the wages of other workers.
Don't you think workers have enough to pay for?

A shortsighted approach. What about all the private companies supplying parts to the car industry ? Those will now go elsewhere and we will lose the tax revenue from them and increase the social security bill by paying their ex workers unemployment benefits.

As well as all that, we need manufacturing capability in the national interest so we don't have to rely on other countries to supply our goods. We are at the **** end of the world here, don't have a large market, and to car and other manufacturers, our needs lag far behind those of larger marketsso we always get the dregs and pay higher prices than those in US or Europe.

 

[sptrawler]

A shortsighted approach. What about all the private companies supplying parts to the car industry ? Those will now go elsewhere and we will lose the tax revenue from them and increase the social security bill by paying their ex workers unemployment benefits..

Are you trying to say that the workers will end up on the dole for the rest of their lives?
Also that jobs growth in Australia, will remain at current levels ad infinitum?

IMO, there is a greater chance of having higher unemployment, in the long term, by having these companies running and sucking funds from the economy.
While these companies are being subsidised by the tax system, it means viable companies have to pay nore tax. This in turn reduces their capacity to grow the business.

As well as all that, we need manufacturing capability in the national interest so we don't have to rely on other countries to supply our goods. We are at the **** end of the world here, don't have a large market, and to car and other manufacturers, our needs lag far behind those of larger marketsso we always get the dregs and pay higher prices than those in US or Europe.

As for having a manufacturing industry, we had one, it has been in decline for years.
The same as the U.K, our costs are high, which in turn makes our product expensive.
This necessitates, higher wages to afford higher prices, which in turn pushes up the price of product to cover the wages.
Which means welfare payments have to rise, so the poor can afford the higher prices, which leads to higher taxing, which means wages and prices have to go up to cover the cost of the extra taxes.
To compound the problem we have a small market, therefore economies of scale aren't there, which drives up the unit cost.
Unless we remove a lot of our taxes and costs, we will become a 'banana republic', where we only survive by paying each other and taxing each other.
A bit like Greece and Spain, it's just not going to work any more with a floating currency and a global economy.IMO

 

[rumpole]

Are you trying to say that the workers will end up on the dole for the rest of their lives?
Also that jobs growth in Australia, will remain at current levels ad infinitum?

IMO, there is a greater chance of having higher unemployment, in the long term, by having these companies running and sucking funds from the economy.
While these companies are being subsidised by the tax system, it means viable companies have to pay nore tax. This in turn reduces their capacity to grow the business.

I don't think there is any doubt that a lot of older workers will find it difficult to get another job. This is an admitted problem in our economy.

"These companies being subsidised"

That assumes that none of these companies will ever turn a profit. Properly managed and supported by local consumer and government customers they can make a profit and are therefore no longer subsidised.

As for having a manufacturing industry, we had one, it has been in decline for years.

Due to tariff reductions aimed at making us competitive with the Third World. It was never going to happen,but dumbell politicians on both sides cling to the free market fantasy.


When workers in the Third World can afford the products they produce, I'll start to believe that progress is being made in the great global community, but not before.

 

[sptrawler]

I don't think there is any doubt that a lot of older workers will find it difficult to get another job. This is an admitted problem in our economy.

"These companies being subsidised"

That assumes that none of these companies will ever turn a profit. Properly managed and supported by local consumer and government customers they can make a profit and are therefore no longer subsidised.



Due to tariff reductions aimed at making us competitive with the Third World. It was never going to happen,but dumbell politicians on both sides cling to the free market fantasy.


When workers in the Third World can afford the products they produce, I'll start to believe that progress is being made in the great global community, but not before.

Times are changing, that doesn't mean it's for the better, but change will happen regardless.

 

[rumpole]

Times are changing, that doesn't mean it's for the better, but change will happen regardless.

I would say that we pay politicians to make sure change is for the better.

 

[Calliope]

We are at the **** end of the world here, don't have a large market, and to car and other manufacturers, our needs lag far behind those of larger marketsso we always get the dregs and pay higher prices than those in US or Europe.

Could you name some of these dregs you are paying a high price for? All the electronic and electrical gear in my house and my car are imported.They are all of high quality and were reasonably priced...especially when the dollar was higher.

 

[rumpole]

Could you name some of these dregs you are paying a high price for? All the electronic and electrical gear in my house and my car are imported.They are all of high quality and were reasonably priced...especially when the dollar was higher.

One example

Subaru WRX STi 2014

UK 29,000 * 1.84 = 53,360 AUD

AUS price 66,308 AUD

That's about 20% higher in Aus

Plus, you must have heard the hoohaa some time ago regarding software and DVD/CD pricing in Aus compared to the US ?

 

[trainspotter]

Meanwhile back at the coal face the Labor Party power mongers will be wringing their hands and furrowing their brows over this one:-

Tasmania headed for Liberal govt: poll

A FIRST Tasmanian Liberal government in 16 years is looking more likely with a new poll suggesting the party will record a thumping election victory next week.
A ReachTEL survey shows the opposition still well ahead of Labor and Liberal leader Will Hodgman almost twice as popular as Premier Lara Giddings.
Support for the Liberal remained steady at 47 per cent, while the ALP dropped a point to 23.6.
Mr Hodgman is the preferred premier with 54.6 per cent support from the 2600 Tasmanians polled.
Ms Giddings has slumped to 24.7 per cent.
The poll, published on Hobart newspaper The Mercury's website, suggests the Liberals are on track to gain the three seats they need for an absolute majority in the state's 25-member lower house.

http://www.news.com.au/national/bre...-win-in-tasmania/story-e6frfku9-1226848077553

 

[wayneL]

One example

Subaru WRX STi 2014

UK 29,000 * 1.84 = 53,360 AUD

AUS price 66,308 AUD

That's about 20% higher in Aus

Plus, you must have heard the hoohaa some time ago regarding software and DVD/CD pricing in Aus compared to the US ?

Just the premium you pay for living in the best country in the world (cough).

 

[noco]

Are you trying to say that the workers will end up on the dole for the rest of their lives?
Also that jobs growth in Australia, will remain at current levels ad infinitum?

IMO, there is a greater chance of having higher unemployment, in the long term, by having these companies running and sucking funds from the economy.
While these companies are being subsidised by the tax system, it means viable companies have to pay nore tax. This in turn reduces their capacity to grow the business.





As for having a manufacturing industry, we had one, it has been in decline for years.
The same as the U.K, our costs are high, which in turn makes our product expensive.
This necessitates, higher wages to afford higher prices, which in turn pushes up the price of product to cover the wages.
Which means welfare payments have to rise, so the poor can afford the higher prices, which leads to higher taxing, which means wages and prices have to go up to cover the cost of the extra taxes.
To compound the problem we have a small market, therefore economies of scale aren't there, which drives up the unit cost.
Unless we remove a lot of our taxes and costs, we will become a 'banana republic', where we only survive by paying each other and taxing each other.
A bit like Greece and Spain, it's just not going to work any more with a floating currency and a global economy.IMO

A "BANANA REPUBLIC" is just what the remnants of the communist world strives for...to ruin the economy of a country is just as you described it above. Higher wages.....higher taxes.....higher costs = high unemployment.... a certain recipe for disaster....make the people become discontent by preaching the rich get richer and the poor get poorer......push to become a republic and then a dictatorship and that is when the rich are no longer rich and the poor become poorer.

Now I shall eagerly await the comments from the socialist left wings and the b*m>

 

[noco]

Her is some more for the Labor Party to chew on....who would want to swap shoes with Joe Hockey.

The financial mess left by the Labor Party will take a generation to fix.

It is unbelievable to learn how the Labor Party were prepared to borrow billions of dollars to give to other countries in the form of Foreign aid.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...n-plans-treasury/story-fn59nsif-1226847526798

 

[sptrawler]

Well today, I have tried to find something to post for the Labor Party.
I thought it was appropriate, so they don't fall to page two.
Alas it was all for naught.

 

[rumpole]

Well today, I have tried to find something to post for the Labor Party.
I thought it was appropriate, so they don't fall to page two.
Alas it was all for naught.

The Libs were virtually invisible during the Rudd/Gillard years untill around election time. I expect Labor have got their heads down figuring out what went wrong and planning their tactics for the next election.

 

[sptrawler]

The Libs were virtually invisible during the Rudd/Gillard years untill around election time. I expect Labor have got their heads down figuring out what went wrong and planning their tactics for the next election.

Quite possible, it will be interesting to see how Labor, refocus and regain some of the middle ground.

I saw a bit of Christine Milne on the news, she appeared a bit like a ship without a rudder also.

My quess is they are going to have to wait untill Abbott makes a stuff up, or public sentiment turns against him. The elections in Tasmania and W.A, may give some indication.

 

[boofhead]

I don't think the Tasmanian election will be much of an indicator. 16 years of Labor which is along time for a party to be in power. The Greens have left a bit of a bad smell. Lots of localised issues.

 

[trainspotter]

Labor is done for in Tasmania due to the length of tenure. Change is as good as a holiday they say. The litmus test will be in W.A. ... Abbott has broken off a bit more GST revenue and thrown it our way and belting out that they are going to scrap the mining tax works wonders on the voting proletariat.