Federal Coalition discussion

[SirRumpole]

Absolutely, I think everyone should get ready for some shocking realities, hopefully it isn't as bad as we think it will be.
It will be better when we come out the other side of this change, the question is, how painful will the journey be?

Greens have mandate to stop new oil and gas projects: Bandt tells Labor

A significant number of voters backed the Greens or independents who called for stronger action on climate change – and Adam Bandt says Labor needs to recognise it.

www.smh.com.au

You would think we would be ok for food, we are always being told we produce enough for 70 million.

If there are food shortages in Australia then there is something seriously wrong with our production capabilities, politics , supply line logistics etc that need to be rectified.

 

[SirRumpole]

David Littleproud will have a crack at the Nats leadership.

He's the way of the future for the Nats imo, Barnaby is past his use by date.

David Littleproud declares he will challenge Barnaby Joyce for National party leadership

Deputy Nationals leader David Littleproud confirms he will try to topple Barnaby Joyce as leader when the party meets in Canberra on Monday.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Knobby22]

Dutton has put 10 women is shadow cabinet!
I think have only 13 women total in Parliament in the lower house so good for that sex in relation to their career.

Better than Abbott who had none except Bishop but his excuse was that they weren't up to it except Mirabelli who famously lost her seat.

It is the female rather than the male vote that has really dropped away for the Libs, so this is a first step.

 

[Knobby22]

Just to add 35% of women put the Liberals first vs 45% of men.

 

[Eager]

Dutton has put 10 women is shadow cabinet!
I think have only 13 women total in Parliament in the lower house so good for that sex in relation to their career.

It suggests tokenism to me.

Still, it might encourage far more women to apply for preselection, if only they could then get past the pompous Old Boys Club to gain candidacy, then hopefully win.

I'm all for quotas. The argument about merit is stupid, considering the far greater % of male politicians who have disgraced themselves either by playing up or by being proven to be incompetent over the years compared to their female counterparts.

 

[moXJO]

I'm all for quotas. The argument about merit is stupid, considering the far greater % of male politicians who have disgraced themselves either by playing up or by being proven to be incompetent over the years compared to their female counterparts.

I'd prefer merit. Unfortunately the selection criteria seems to be the problem. Quotas just fill the void with an equal number of idiots between the sexes.

 

[wayneL]

I'm all for quotas. The argument about merit is stupid, considering the far greater % of male politicians who have disgraced themselves either by playing up or by being proven to be incompetent over the years compared to their female counterparts.

That's the antithesis of merit then, innit?

Don't mix up a meritocracy with cronyism... of which a sex based quota system is, ipso facto.

 

[Eager]

That's the antithesis of merit then, innit?

Don't mix up a meritocracy with cronyism... of which a sex based quota system is, ipso facto.

No worries, and I'm sure you would agree, if only 13 of the 58 were men, then that would be okay with you.

it's not going to happen though is it? Why? Because being an MP in the Liberal party is an extremely unattractive proposition for a woman.

 

[wayneL]

No worries, and I'm sure you would agree, if only 13 of the 58 were men, then that would be okay with you.

it's not going to happen though is it? Why? Because being an MP in the Liberal party is an extremely unattractive proposition for a woman.

Bit a non-sequitur there, old bean. Perhaps even a straw man fallacy.

If the best person for the job is a man, so be it. If the best person is a woman, so be it.

If the best "person" is Pavlov's @#$&ing dog, then I'm happy with that too.

The internal machinations of the Liberal party do not form a part of my point; indeed goes partly to my point of cronyism.

 

[sptrawler]

I'd prefer merit. Unfortunately the selection criteria seems to be the problem. Quotas just fill the void with an equal number of idiots between the sexes.

Yes it is interesting, what happens if you are fortunate to have 80% of your top team highly qualified, but you can only chose 50% of them because of quotas.
It would be interesting at the moment, if the minister who missed out because of their gender, was a power system engineer. ?
Imagine the quandary, "Look I know they are a professor of physics and has a double degree, but quotas say we have to have the fast food manager as minister for energy". ?

The real travesty IMO, is that their isn't an aptitude test for preselection, I know there was in my last job.

Politicians don't even have to do a medical as far as I'm aware, yet they are held up as the best Australia has to offer, ironic eh.

 

[IFocus]

At this stage of the game quotas are fine given merit isn't a criteria for getting preselected never has been all it means is a female is preselected instead of a male, most of the Teals would have been Liberals how did that work out?

As Dutton is the best the Liberals can find for a leader it doesn't say much for the Liberal male MP's.

 

[moXJO]

Yes it is interesting, what happens if you are fortunate to have 80% of your top team highly qualified, but you can only chose 50% of them because of quotas.
It would be interesting at the moment, if the minister who missed out because of their gender, was a power system engineer. ?
Imagine the quandary, "Look I know they are a professor of physics and has a double degree, but quotas say we have to have the fast food manager as minister for energy". ?

The real travesty IMO, is that their isn't an aptitude test for preselection, I know there was in my last job.

Politicians don't even have to do a medical as far as I'm aware, yet they are held up as the best Australia has to offer, ironic eh.

Yes. The "highly qualified" part seems to be missing from the equation when it comes to politicians.

 

[sptrawler]

Yes. The "highly qualified" part seems to be missing from the equation when it comes to politicians.

That part is missing from Australian society at the moment, imagine when you have to call back a PM from holidays, to sort out bushfires, jezzus what a mess. ?
What are you paying the State minister of Fire and emergency services for? And who answers to them, then who answers to them.
Yet obviously they are all fcking useless if the PM is on holidays. ?

Australia what a bastion of getting $hit done. what a hoot, I hope all this nonsense stops now the media has flipped the Govt, it would be terrible to see it carry on again IMO.

 

[SirRumpole]

That part is missing from Australian society at the moment, imagine when you have to call back a PM from holidays, to sort out bushfires, jezzus what a mess. ?
What are you paying the State minister of Fire and emergency services for? And who answers to them, then who answers to them.
Yet obviously they are all fcking useless if the PM is on holidays. ?

None of that.

The PM is the top job and he/she has to see first hand what the public is going through during a natural disaster so as to allocate resources properly as well as let people know that the government cares.

Ok , so it's a figurehead type position , but that's what they are paid for.

 

[sptrawler]

None of that.

The PM is the top job and he/she has to see first hand what the public is going through during a natural disaster so as to allocate resources properly as well as let people know that the government cares.

Ok , so it's a figurehead type position , but that's what they are paid for.

The sad part is IMO, all the next PM's will be burnt on the same cross, absolutely infantile IMO.
If they have to be there to allocate resources in natural disasters, what the hell are we paying the minister's, the State ministers and the heads of those departments for.
Absolutely absurd IMO.
I'm not on a computer, but tomorrow I will check out the early 1980 fires near Lorne and the fired during Rudd's term and check the responses, as to Federal help.

 

[PZ99]

I'd prefer merit. Unfortunately the selection criteria seems to be the problem. Quotas just fill the void with an equal number of idiots between the sexes.

Agreed. + Quotas lead to apparent favourtism. The ALP just learned the hard way that merit is a better proposition for winning seats.

 

[Smurf1976]

Yes it is interesting, what happens if you are fortunate to have 80% of your top team highly qualified, but you can only chose 50% of them because of quotas.
It would be interesting at the moment, if the minister who missed out because of their gender, was a power system engineer. ?

Suffice to say I know quite a few women who'd be outright furious if they thought they'd been selected to fill a quota. That includes engineers.

I'm 100% on side with stopping discrimination against anyone based on race, gender and so on but at the same time, there are plenty of women more than capable of getting there on legitimate merit so long as it's an actually level playing field.

 

[IFocus]

so long as it's an actually level playing field.

In my time never seen it, worked with large numbers of engineers across a few disciplines ( Elect, Mech, Process, Risk, Software) nearly half were women and If I wanted something clever done usually went to the girls, most of the top jobs went to the boys and or they were paid higher salaries.

I do believe salaries have been addressed and there are now more women in senior roles but it has been a long road.

 

[Smurf1976]

I do believe salaries have been addressed and there are now more women in senior roles but it has been a long road.

I certainly wouldn't deny that discrimination on the basis of race, gender and other attributes has been a very real issue in the past and isn't extinct thus far.

If I was tasked with eliminating it though well then I wouldn't do it by setting and filling quotas since it's inevitable that leads to less than desirable outcomes. At best it's patching over the cracks.

Get to the base of the problem and a lot of issues do come down to bullying and the entire culture that goes with it. That's the real thing the Coalition, and others, needs to stamp out. Suffice to say the public airing of what goes on at parliament house is, from what I've been told by credible sources, just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Knobby22]

The bias is unconscious.
In the book Blink (recommended by our resident little black duck #tech/a) -Orchestras used to be nearly all men as they were considered better particularly with brass and wind. It wasn't until they started holding blind auditions behind curtains that women started winning these spots.

That is why you need some form of advantage such as quotas.

Professional women and women in management positions who deal with this bias every day are not voting Liberal. Almost to a man (sic) and they are not getting selected when they try to become an mp.

E.g. despite being pro female in Victoria only 4 of the 23 mps in the lower house are women.