Fake News - Global Warming Consensus

[Ann]

Her mother Malena Ernman is a political activist. As the Jesuits say....give me a child until he/she is seven and we will have them for life"

Ernman has had Thunberg for sixteen years and trained her well. Every child craves attention so any child who says what a parent wants them to say will gain approval. A useful tool in mum's crusade.

"Ernman has been politically active supporting the Paris Agreement against climate change, including writing a debate piece[16] in Dagens Nyheter with seven other researchers and artists, at the same time announcing she will personally stop using air travel for climate reasons. Her daughter Greta Thunberg also is a climate activist. Ernman has also been politically active supporting immigration and the right of asylum."

Here is a photo of mum and daughter, look at the child's eyes, they look vacant, look at mum's eyes they look like they could smash granite. Never make mum angry.

 

[rederob]

Here is a photo of mum and daughter, look at the child's eyes, they look vacant, look at mum's eyes they look like they could smash granite. Never make mum angry.

Your knowledge of climate is vacant.
Really scraping the bottom of the barrel with that load of irrelevances.

 

[qldfrog]

That is what is so sick with your position, I told you already and many time that I believe in Human Caused Global Warming, but above anything I hate fanatics and brainwashing, the race to the lower denominator
->should they blow themselves in the name of Allah , burn butcher shops in the name of global warning/veganism or annihilate jews, blacks or christians, or anyone thinking differently.
If you start using the grand master scheme of propaganda for a cause, like brainwashing children as per that case, you are a radical and believe that if the cause is great , there is no limit
so what's next Basilio:
if I were you, I would really ask myself the question:
where would you stop, would you kill, how many, after all you could save the earth, your children mankind agains the evil diesel burners, meat eaters, western civilisation that brought us the steam engine
Bring a bit of critical spirit, and common sense, realise that whatever you or Emman, or even the whole West can say or do, half the planet at least does not give a **** about GW, could not care less and only dream about eating more pork or beef and drive a bigger car have a bigger house.
so we'd better be prepared or hope that Gaya will sort this on her own.

 

[rederob]

... but above anything I hate fanatics and brainwashing, the race to the lower denominator

Yet you link your idea to a student who actually knows what she is talking about.

->should they blow themselves in the name of Allah, burn butcher shops in the name of global warning/veganism or annihilate jews, blacks or christians, or anyone thinking differently.

How exactly is that relevant?

If you start using the grand master scheme of propaganda for a cause, like brainwashing children as per that case, you are a radical and believe that if the cause is great , there is no limit

Again, you seem very confused about what constitutes a good education.

where would you stop, would you kill, how many, after all you could save the earth, your children mankind agains the evil diesel burners, meat eaters, western civilisation that brought us the steam engine

You really need to tone it down - necessary action to mitigate climate change is political and economic.

Bring a bit of critical spirit, and common sense, realise that whatever you or Emman, or even the whole West can say or do, half the planet at least does not give a **** about GW, could not care less and only dream about eating more pork or beef and drive a bigger car have a bigger house.

Not really relevant what people believe about AGW; only concerted action will have an impact and attitudes like yours are symbolic of the problem faced.

 

[basilio]

If other Asperger sufferers are found to be pushing a more skeptical message, will you be as cognisant of their mental acuity?

Frankly Cynic people with Aspergers are almost always exceptionally accurate with their understanding of reality. The challenges they face are trying to work out why most of the population plays all sorts of social games to avoid facing reality. I am sometimes uncomfortable with them because their directness and accuracy is challenging. In my experience there is almost no way they would be skeptical of CC.

Greta recognises what scientists and the evidence of the changing climate is telling us. She just happens to be exceptionally committed to doing something about it and this sincerity is a powerful force.

Over a long teaching career I have come across a few young people who show quite remarkable insights into the world around them. They have inspired fellow students and the community to take a stand on these issues.

As an adult we tend to get tired and cynical. But I can say from experience the determination of some young people to tackle problems others have studiously ignored or just paid lip service to or just lied about can be very effective.

 

[qldfrog]

Was thinking
Apologies Basilio, you are probably a good person and believe you are doing the right thing.a few brainwash teens will not change much
i will leave that thread to you.sadly i believe you are both dangerous to the cause you defend and most of all, to the people you condemn to poverty and failure while not doing the remediation we need nor tackling the causes issues.
Get out of Guardian induced media frenzy, you, your familly and friend will appreciate and the world might not be better for it, but definitively not worse
I am out of that thread.you win
the Cause is victorious, and when gw will ravage australia you will remember how these deniers prevented you from saving the world

 

[cynic]

Frankly Cynic people with Aspergers are almost always exceptionally accurate with their understanding of reality. The challenges they face are trying to work out why most of the population plays all sorts of social games to avoid facing reality. I am sometimes uncomfortable with them because their directness and accuracy is challenging. In my experience there is almost no way they would be skeptical of CC.
...

I have been closely acquainted to at least three people with Aspergers. All three display the classic markers. Only one is pro AGW, the other two are extremely sceptical and believe that those pro AGW have bought into a grand scale fallacy (or perhaps even a deliberate hoax).

 

[rederob]

I have been closely acquainted to at least three people with Aspergers. All three display the classic markers. Only one is pro AGW, the other two are extremely sceptical and believe that those pro AGW have bought into a grand scale fallacy (or perhaps even a deliberate hoax).

Well, there is no accounting for ignorance.

 

[Darc Knight]

I was one of those who was blase about GW. Listening to right wing media like Macquarie had me unsure.
Their arguments, as has happened here, centred around CO2 not being a problem. That has been well and truly debunked here. Then there's the theory we are actually cooling, that too is easily debunked.

I see the angles of the deniers, the Capitalism before Conservation, the greed from investment in Fossil Fuels.

Time to get behind the good guys and try to make a difference, a difference for the collective good not pure greed and self interest.

 

[basilio]

Was thinking
Apologies Basilio, you are probably a good person and believe you are doing the right thing.a few brainwash teens will not change much
i will leave that thread to you.sadly i believe you are both dangerous to the cause you defend and most of all, to the people you condemn to poverty and failure while not doing the remediation we need nor tackling the causes issues.
Get out of Guardian induced media frenzy, you, your familly and friend will appreciate and the world might not be better for it, but definitively not worse
I am out of that thread.you win
the Cause is victorious, and when gw will ravage australia you will remember how these deniers prevented you from saving the world

Apology accepted.
I still find your observations confusing. The remediation required to address CC must also enable everyone to live a reasonable life. The proposals around that make it clear.
From your own personal point of view I suggest you need to see some effective action on GW. If nothing is done to change our current direction no one will be spared. The most well off may survive longer to watch what happens as the world heats up. Not sure if that is something to look forward to.
_________________________

I can appreciate that your history colours your view of the world. (Like all of us of course) You seem to have had to win by tooth and claw from a very difficult background. I can see how that would make one a strong individualist with little confidence in the efforts of communities to achieve common goals.

But big problems require big solutions with contributions from all. Very much like total mobilisation during a war.

 

[basilio]

I have been closely acquainted to at least three people with Aspergers. All three display the classic markers. Only one is pro AGW, the other two are extremely sceptical and believe that those pro AGW have bought into a grand scale fallacy (or perhaps even a deliberate hoax).

I was probably overstating my case. Yes my experience has been different from yours. But on reflection Asbergers is only one element in a persons make up. Upbringing, environment other personality traits will also affect how people develop a world view.

I remember reading a story of how children brought up by strong Church going, utter racists in the US grew up believing blacks were dirty, lazy, ignorant, sly SOBs. That was what their Ma and Pa said . That was how they behaved. But they were still God Fearing Christians..

 

[Joules MM1]

ElizabethaRush[/B]]
Elizabeth Rush16 hours ago
Thwaites' calving edge: sailing through what was solid ice sheet just a few years ago.... @glacierthwaites

https://twitter.com/GlacierThwaites

 

[Smurf1976]

I was one of those who was blase about GW. Listening to right wing media like Macquarie had me unsure.

It would suit me very nicely if it wasn't true but I see too much evidence around me which says it probably is real.

There's not much in common between Tasmania, south-east Queensland and the city of Adelaide but they've all set new weather records for hot and/or dry conditions in the past few weeks.

For anyone still doubting I've got a question:

Mention Scotland and what comes to mind?

Whatever you're thinking of I'll take a damn good guess that it doesn't involve the place catching fire in Winter. That's about the last thing anyone would expect. Fires, in winter, in Scotland. A ridiculous sounding concept that has actually happened in a place where being snowed in would be a more expected problem.

The blaze is nothing by Australian standards but it's a problem locals would never have thought they'd be needing to deal with and it's a sign that yes things are changing.

 

[Ann]

It would suit me very nicely if it wasn't true but I see too much evidence around me which says it probably is real.

There's not much in common between Tasmania, south-east Queensland and the city of Adelaide but they've all set new weather records for hot and/or dry conditions in the past few weeks.

For anyone still doubting I've got a question:

Mention Scotland and what comes to mind?

Whatever you're thinking of I'll take a damn good guess that it doesn't involve the place catching fire in Winter. That's about the last thing anyone would expect. Fires, in winter, in Scotland. A ridiculous sounding concept that has actually happened in a place where being snowed in would be a more expected problem.

The blaze is nothing by Australian standards but it's a problem locals would never have thought they'd be needing to deal with and it's a sign that yes things are changing.

Smurf, I don't think there is any doubt we are in the top end or nearing the top end of a oscillating cycle of high temperatures. What concerns me is when the oscillations begin to fall back to the cooler temperatures, we will not be prepared. If there is a lot of snow and ice cover then solar will be useless, wind-power will freeze up and potentially break if too much ice load is put onto the blades. Nuclear power needs fresh flowing water to keep the reactors cool. If rivers freeze up in the dead of winter reactors will need to be shut down, when there is the most need for power I can see an enormous death toll of people. If we move away from traditional power generation we will have nothing to provide electricity when it is most needed.

I have been a champion of the green/eco cause from the first moment I heard Suzuki back in the 1960s. He didn't fear monger, he gave out practical advice as to how to have a low footprint. I have lived my whole life with low consumption and recycling. My father manufactured DC motors and spent a lot of time working to design wind generators. I have been, in the past very excited by electric cars. (Thirty years ago my father was working with someone from S.A. to develop lithium batteries for electric cars). I have been envisioning in my mind, clean renewable energy for decades. My concern now is with the current massive size of the solar panels we are creating a monster of an environmental hazard. In an ideal world I believe solar panels can last for around 25 years (?). The problem is it is not an ideal world and if we begin to get colder winters the chance of major solar panel smashing hail storms is highly likely. It happened in NSW recently.

We should always prepare for the worst that there is going to be a down turn in temperatures. We should never rely on a one sided scenario about anything, ever.

We should be working hard to clean up emissions from coal and make it more efficient. Let's put a few bob into that as well as renewables. We should be looking at creating unbreakable solar panels, there is so much we should be doing to create better power generation.

If in the event we get hotter, more people will start installing ACs. (I have resisted the urge so far) so there will be more demand for power.

There is very little common sense with the GW alarmists, they haven't set appropriate priorities.

First priority, how clean can we make the emissions from coal fired power plants clean? They use platinum to clean emissions from cars I believe, would that help?

Speaking as a long term environmentalist I am concerned that all the histrionics, rudeness and name-calling this GW political group-think go on with, might push the whole environmental agenda into reverse and create a backlash. That would be such a pity.

It might easily lose its entire support base with as simple a thing as a political test case. If the CC political group don't win then there would be a good argument to be made that the national does not support the notion of CC science. This may well be on its way....

Climate change IS the economy, Inslee pushes in announcing 2020 presidential run

Credit Jay Inslee for the targeted message everyone expected.


The Washington governor and now 2020 presidential contender tweeted his intentions to push climate, not as a fringe topic, but as his centerpiece issue.


His congressional record already paved the way for such a campaign kickoff and he’s been vocally opposed to President Donald Trump’s environmental-regulation rollbacks.


Inslee, who at an event earlier Friday made his suspected run official, doesn’t yet detail the economic downside — and upside — that climate change poses for the U.S. and how he’d fix it. But he claims that the adoption 100% clean energy will bring “good paying jobs to every community across America.” More...

 

[rederob]

Smurf, I don't think there is any doubt we are in the top end or nearing the top end of a oscillating cycle of high temperatures.

You have no evidence for that claim to be true.
Most of the hottest years ever recorded have occurred this century and this has been the case during periods of decreasing irradiance.

If there is a lot of snow and ice cover then solar will be useless, wind-power will freeze up and potentially break if too much ice load is put onto the blades.

Where is this the case now in Australia, or likely to be so during the next century?

We should be looking at creating unbreakable solar panels, there is so much we should be doing to create better power generation.

The panels are rated to withstand severe weather conditions, but hail stones which break through tiled rooves and smash car windscreens are in a league of their own.

If in the event we get hotter, more people will start installing ACs. (I have resisted the urge so far) so there will be more demand for power.

Australia just had its all time hottest summer - do you really think we are waiting for it to get hotter still .

There is very little common sense with the GW alarmists, they haven't set appropriate priorities.

You might be right - whoever these people are. However the IPCC has clearly mapped what the future holds under different settings, so its not hard to see what should be done.

It might easily lose its entire support base with as simple a thing as a political test case. If the CC political group don't win then there would be a good argument to be made that the national does not support the notion of CC science.

Climate science is not politics. Politicians don't change the data.

 

[explod]

Priorities is right, geeezzz:-

 

[Joules MM1]

Priorities is right, geeezzz:-

in toto, scientists lack the ontological skill-set to convey beyond the normal presentations to impel change thru people who wield the power to make that change

and they should in practice not need those skills, it is not the skills of science that are lacking, it is the skills conveyed in schools, nor is it the skills of tutors to convey the study required pre-science
the level of ontological discourse required to make substantive difference is sub-par to what can be done

that's the challenge he speaks of - if you cannot drive a parked bus you cannot expect a diligent and concise message to impede into ambiguous and indifferent ears

that's what he means

 

[Ann]

You have no evidence for that claim to be true.
Most of the hottest years ever recorded have occurred this century and this has been the case during periods of decreasing irradiance.

Offering proof about something occurring in the future is impossible, it can be modeled which is only as good as the information put in to create the model, much can happen between model and outcome. However there appears to be a physics map of long term oscillations of planets associated with heating and cooling periods. This seems more reliable than human modeled adjusted projections.

Where is this the case now in Australia, or likely to be so during the next century?

This is a worldwide issue, not simply Australia. We may find Solar panels and Wind turbines fine here but unlikely in the northern hemisphere. However all that could change in certain areas more southern in Australia.

The panels are rated to withstand severe weather conditions, but hail stones which break through tiled rooves and smash car windscreens are in a league of their own.

Correct and that is why we need to find something that can withstand those serious hailstorms if solar panels are going to be feasible under severe weather conditions as they are right in the open subjected to all sorts of assault.

Australia just had its all time hottest summer - do you really think we are waiting for it to get hotter still .

We may have the coldest winter on record this coming winter in Australia let's see. As they average it out we will not know if 2019 is going to be anything special. As I keep saying on my charts, time will tell.
In other words I prefer not to panic myself with thoughts of impending doom. However I have purchased some warm woolen underwear from Katmandu when it was on special, just in case!

You might be right - whoever these people are. However the IPCC has clearly mapped what the future holds under different settings, so its not hard to see what should be done.

We should be looking at all possible outcomes of future weather scenarios not just one agenda put forward by a political group-think of people. It is the InterGovernmental Panel for Climate Change. The people who represent each country are political appointees. The whole thing is a huge political agenda. The bottom line is to create a worldwide taxation which they are attempting to force on to nations worldwide to accommodate a green agenda.

Climate science is not politics. Politicians don't change the data.

See above...

No politicians don't change the data spin doctors distort it in order to control the politicians.

 

[Smurf1976]

I'm no climate scientist so I simply base my thoughts on what I'm observing.

Fires in Scotland in Winter - that's not normal by any stretch of the imagination. It's about the last place you'd expect that to happen. I can sort of relate to that one more than most such events since I've previously walked to the top of the same hill that was ablaze so know exactly where it is etc (it's a natural lookout point hence there's a constant stream of people walking up).

Numerous weather records have been broken across Australia this Summer and that's becoming a trend. Lots of places hundreds or thousands of km apart and with nothing in common apart from having just set new records for hot and/or dry conditions.

Tasmania's turn today, as of right now it's 38.0 degrees in Hobart (BOM official data) which is a new record for March, exceeding the previous record of 37.3 and the day's not over yet.

Longer term, there is a dramatic drying trend in south-west WA that commenced in the mid-1970's.

And so on. There are simply too many "incidents" happening to sensibly say there isn't a change taking place and that it seems to be gathering pace.

The causes I'm no expert on. I can only assume those who have been saying since the 1890's (that's the first reference to it I'm aware of, there may well be earlier ones) that increasing concentrations of certain gases in the atmosphere would cause warming know what they're on about. Concentrations of those gases have indeed increased and there is warming so presumably they're connected.

What I do see as a huge problem though is society's apparent expectation that solutions will be easy with no sacrifice involved. Only this week the Age newspaper's website had at the same time a story about Australia's top CO2 emitters (in practice basically a list of electricity companies and a couple of others) and another story lamenting the lack of air-conditioning in some Victorian schools. Sadly they probably don't see the problem with that.

We're going to have to change a lot of things to deal with this one and the real elephant in the room that pretty much nobody wants to face is population. There are simply too many people each using too much of everything.

 

[Smurf1976]

Tasmania's turn today, as of right now it's 38.0 degrees in Hobart (BOM official data) which is a new record for March, exceeding the previous record of 37.3 and the day's not over yet.

39.1 thus far - by the standards of what’s normal in Tasmania that is truly extreme heat.

1.8 above the previous March record.