Eminis

No I still have to disagree. What is the fundamental difference between eminis and futures??? Nothing they are EXACTLY the same. They are traded on the same system, same exchanges, same mechanics.....they ARE futures. Its a marketing term. Thats all. They are traded by professional traders who do 90% of the volume.

Trembling Hand said:

No I still have to disagree. What is the fundamental difference between eminis and futures??? Nothing they are EXACTLY the same. They are traded on the same system, same exchanges, same mechanics.....they ARE futures. Its a marketing term. Thats all. They are traded by professional traders who do 90% of the volume.

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Yes, you are absolutely right, Eminis ARE futures, but the word emini provides you with more information - it tells you that the contracts are the small ones not the large ones (it's taken as given that they ARE futures) - don't you think that's in some way useful? It's like you're suggesting we say that all squares are rectangles - a truth, but also a loss of information.

Trembling Hand said:

No I still have to disagree. What is the fundamental difference between eminis and futures??? Nothing they are EXACTLY the same. They are traded on the same system, same exchanges, same mechanics.....they ARE futures. Its a marketing term. Thats all. They are traded by professional traders who do 90% of the volume.

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TH
I agree with you that they are futures, nothing more - nothing less, but they are not twins, and the old futures is still around, so if you don't give them a different name/handle how do we know which one we are referring too.


ps
Thanks so much for your advise re the transaction journal. The dynamics of trading with a journal that you are accountable for is completely different ... it is much harder when the risks become real

nighteyes said:

TH
I agree with you that they are futures, nothing more - nothing less, but they are not twins, and the old futures is still around, so if you don't give them a different name/handle how do we know which one we are referring too.

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Exactly - on the YM for instance, I want to know if the local S&P floor traders are buying or selling ES Eminis because that can and will precede a move in price on the YM - it's not all algorithm driven, the floor traders do influence the market. Having the pit commentator call "the locals are buying eminis" is absolutely invaluable.

Yes I will concede that they are telling you they are the smaller of the two contracts. But thats hardly necessary. All Futures are wildly different in value per tick.

But my real problem with "emini" is that the term is used as if they are some sort of "user friendly" trading instrument. They are just as deadly and have just as many pro's taking the $$ off the punters as any other game.

Trembling Hand said:

Yes I will concede that they are telling you they are the smaller of the two contracts. But thats hardly necessary. All Futures are wildly different in value per tick.

But my real problem with "emini" is that the term is used as if they are some sort of "user friendly" trading instrument. They are just as deadly and have just as many pro's taking the $$ off the punters as any other game.

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Couldn't agree more with you ... henceforth Futurettes then ... just kidding

Trembling Hand said:

Yes I will concede that they are telling you they are the smaller of the two contracts. But thats hardly necessary. All Futures are wildly different in value per tick.

But my real problem with "emini" is that the term is used as if they are some sort of "user friendly" trading instrument. They are just as deadly and have just as many pro's taking the $$ off the punters as any other game.

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Agreed - there are a lot of so called "educators" out there that tout Eminis as if you were going to be buying and selling bread or milk. They're only user-friendly to those new to the market because they are affordable compared to the big contracts. The earlier analogy to cigarettes should hold true - they should have warnings on them - photos of poor people or something... or at least the words "trading eminis without supervision can empty your account".

Yeah. trading eminis can result in this

I think that this guy (pictured above) posts on many forums.

The least Joe could do is give him an ASF mug.

peter2 said:

I think that this guy (pictured above) posts on many forums.

The least Joe could do is give him an ASF mug.

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What are you talking about, that IS Joe! He would be holding an ASF mug, but he let me trade them in at the local strip club for a lap dance or 3. He let me trade in the precious ASF mugs because I was quite depressed after I had spent all of my money on "professional trading advice" to try and learn how to trade the emini's. It was only after I had spent all of my money on chat room fees that I realised that nobody with a scalable edge in the futures market would be silly enough to give it away to any punter with a few thousand in the bank.

Trading E-MINIS

Hi Everyone,
Im all a bit new to this world of investing.
But i have come across a company that helps you trade e-minis. They claim some big returns. And i was wondering if anyone has had any dealings that take you by the hand and lead you through the process ?
And how you found it to work for yourself ?

Re: Trading E-MINIS

reef750 said:

Hi Everyone,
Im all a bit new to this world of investing.
But i have come across a company that helps you trade e-minis. They claim some big returns. And i was wondering if anyone has had any dealings that take you by the hand and lead you through the process ?
And how you found it to work for yourself ?

Click to expand...

what is the company?

chops_a_must said:

Bludy hell!

So they tried selling you the system knowing you only have 5k, and have never traded shares let alone futures!!? That's criminal.

Firstly, don't trade any futures if you only have 5k.

Secondly, don't trade futures if you've never traded shares. You will get killed.

Thirdly, don't do it.

If you must do it, trade the index etf instead. You wont be smashed like you would with the e-mini, and you can look at what is happening with your expectancy and your account. But you probably don't even have enough to do that!

But with 5k you will most likely lose the most of your capital, on a normal string of losses, and you wont trade no more.

If you don't understand shorting, there is absolutely no way you should be considering this. Read a couple of books, dabble a bit in shares, and if you happen to know what you are doing, come back.

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I've been thinking about this, and I might get some flack for this, but I think this is actually poor advice - or more to the point, advice that lacks context.

Here is my two cents worth: Just like a law degree, or a medical degree or a dentistry degree learning to be a futures trader comes with cost and just like those subjects it takes years to become competent. You would be arrogant to assume that as a newbie you can make money trading against pros from the start. Would you expect to win a murder trial in your first week in law school?? In fact, in learning to trade futures you are actually very lucky because you do have the chance to actually make some money - show me a law school that pays you to study! You're also very lucky that it is probably the only activity in the world that allows complete newbies to go up against seasoned pros. You don't need to know anything about the sharemarket at all to say "I want to be a futures trader" and actually start learning to be one.

Having said all that (And here's where the context comes in... and also where I agree with chops_a_must), you will almost certainly lose money at the start. If you want to learn to trade futures then you MUST accept that it will cost you significant time and money to do so. It is fine to take 5K and trade futures as long as you accept that you will almost certainly lose it as part of your education process. There is no other way to really learn than to start trading (preferably with a mentor). If all you have in the world is 5K and if you lose it you won't come back to trade again, then DO NOT get into trading. But if you are willing to accept that you will almost certainly lose at the start as part of your learning process then go ahead and learn. It is much better to only have 5K to lose at the start than go in with 50K and think you will not lose some or all of it - more money WILL NOT make you a better trader. 5K isn't much to front up with to start your learning process in a career that could put you in the top 1% of income earners is it? And if your answer is "yes, it is a lot of money" - then don't trade, and go and get a nice secure 9-to-5 job instead.

If you want to hear similar words from a seasoned trader then watch this video from my mentor: ****************
Feel free to drop me an email if you have any questions about what it's like to learn trading through a mentor.

Hi,

I am quite new to trading. I have been trading shares for less than a year and recently start trading CFD for less than 6 months but recently find emini quite interesting. I went to the seminar for trading emini with **************** recently but dont think $7K worth the investment to teach me trading emini.

I find that no one can teach you trading. Its all got to do with experience and that take times and by paying $7K wont do the job. To get the experience you have to actually trade the market and get the feels with emini and read stuffs you found on internet, books/ebooks etc.

I found an emini broker, sign up for a demo account to paper trading and experimenting my emini trade with this simulator account. I found emini most fascinating even with basic knowledge on emini I can make money based on Moving Average indicator. With 1 or 2 hours a night I can make AT LEAST $100 on my demo account consistantly which I am quite happy with. The index market is so easy to make money as its so volitiles and so liquility. With one tick on S&P500 I get $12.50 I think and to get one point I can satisfied with that being a beginger for the last few weeks. I just get in and get out the trade with 1 or 2 points to cash the profit and analysis the trend again based on Moving Averages and jump in again with another trade.

I feel that I can make more profit if I sign up with a live signal calls from a trading room for US$295 a month. I am in the process of joing either **************** trading room to get a more profitable trading signals on the index to trade emini.

I personally recomment this emini broker **************** where they have live online help during business hours, free demo account to paper trade, low commission for trading emini, free trading plateform with live data if you choose EZ TRADER but with other plateform there's a monthly fee.

I hope my details help you with your trading emini. $7K for the course is not worth it and I would rather use that amount to start an account with a broker trade emini on my own efford.

Cheers.

Richard

ruht03 said:

The index market is so easy to make money

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Well Richard that just about sums up your post. A load of BS.

Trembling Hand I think you are just an arogent individual here on the forum thinking you know everything and on any subjects matter. So whats your view regarding my posting that you think its BS. Just take it or leave it but everything I stated in my posting is my own trading experience with emini without spending $7K on enrolling to the course. Do I need to proof everything especially to you? Is it too difficult for you to grasp or is it too easy for you to grasp? I am only helping the beginner to see how I start my trading with emini and I am not helping you since you seem to be the experienced leader in this trading forum. Everything people posted here you have your nose on the subject and opposed them or having your own remarks or opinions against them. Dont know the psychology here i am sorry.

Cheers

Richard

OK I will give you a plainer and simpler explanation if you can answer these two questions for me.

What is the period of MA and charts you are using and what is your Average Win to Loss ratio.

And I will try and explain why your results are random or BS.

Trembling Hand my results are just more likely random based on the last few weeks I am trading on my demo account. I dont claimed that i made $500 to $1000 a night but very small profit based on only basic knowledges I have with emini trading. I only trade for the last few weeks and I can stated that again I have at least made $100 a night consistantly and some day even more $. I dont know the out come for the next few months or years be like with just using Moving Average indicator. Thats why I mention that I am in the process to subscribed to a live signal calls trading room to have a better chance of winning the market in the long run.

MA= 14 & 5mins chart is all I use. In & out of the market between 1 & 2 points and before I jump in again based only my MA indicator. I dont know my win and lose ratio but it's a lot more wins than lost obviously. I dont count how many wins or losts I have but more concentrate on the money I have profit. PLEASE AWARE THAT THIS IS ONLY DEMO/PAPER TRADING ACCOUNT NOT REAL MONEY I AM DEALING WITH. I dont know if I can get a constant amount of at least $100 a night in months times as I only traded for the last few weeks and thats the positive results I have. Dont say that my posting is BS as I am only helping beginners to see how I start my trading with emini without a $7K course. I see experimenting on trading is more important and with the help of a live signal calls will get you success trading instead of spent $7K on a course. I hope you see my points and not BS as I get nothing out of my posting.

Cheers

Richard

ruht03 said:

MA= 14 & 5mins chart is all I use. In & out of the market between 1 & 2 points and before I jump in again based only my MA indicator.

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Here is your problem. If you look at the average range per 5 min bar(ES) which I just did for the 13/05/2008 its 2.20 points in the first 2 hours. Your target is less than the average range per period. how can you have any type of positive R:R when your target is less than the average 1 Bar range. And you are using a lagging 14 bar indicator.

If like most real traders your average win loss ratio is closer to 50/50 then you would be throwing away the claim that "The index market is so easy to make money" when your profit target is less than any sensible stop.

Hey I've been trading and learning hard for a few years by now. I don't trade Eminis and don't have much idea about it. But I do know trading is a very tough game. There are just too many possibilities for you to screw up a trade and result in losses but profits.

If someone who trades based on only basic knowledges, using just MA indicator, and with help of live signal calls can make money consistently, I just don't know if there are so many market players more amateur than that and lose you the money?

Learning hard and trading on one's own is the way (if not the only one) to succeed.