Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

"
There is a lot of business in government fleet sales. The largest fleet is that of the NSW Government, which owns or leases over 25,000 vehicles – 4000 of them in the police force alone. The Commonwealth fleet contains over 12,000 vehicles – 7000 passenger vehicles (including SUVs) and over 5000 light and heavy commercial vehicles. Half are leased and half are owned.

Victoria’s VicFleet has nearly 10,000 vehicles. The other states all have fleets roughly in proportion to their populations, and most local government authorities have their own fleets. Brisbane City Council, by far the largest LGA in Australia, has 3800 vehicles. There are well over 200,000 vehicles in government fleets around Australia."

Driving change: fleet management - Government News

NSW's StateFleet set to be dismantled.

www.governmentnews.com.au

I certainly have no problem with the Government fleet going electric, of course though that doesn't mean that the Rental car deal shouldn't Also go ahead.
But how many of the Above commonwealth vehicles belong to the Army? they might be slow to adopt EV's for tactical reasons, I mean even their "White fleet" (road vehicles like passenger cars, Land cruisers, minibuses etc) have to be ready to be used in ways that EV's might not be ready for yet.

 

[SirRumpole]

I certainly have no problem with the Government fleet going electric, of course though that doesn't mean that the Rental car deal shouldn't Also go ahead.
But how many of the Above commonwealth vehicles belong to the Army? they might be slow to adopt EV's for tactical reasons, I mean even their "White fleet" (road vehicles like passenger cars, Land cruisers, minibuses etc) have to be ready to be used in ways that EV's might not be ready for yet.

I wouldn't expect that those figures include tanks or Bushmasters, but might include cars that ferry officers around the bases and there is no reason that those vehicles couldn't be electric.

 

[Value Collector]

I wouldn't expect that those figures include tanks or Bushmasters, but might include cars that ferry officers around the bases and there is no reason that those vehicles couldn't be electric.

No I am talking about the white fleet, not green fleet, I am talking about all the passenger cars (used to be commodores I don't know what they use now), Landcruisers, mini buses, Utes, light trucks etc. (again I am not talking about the Green vehicles you would normally think of when thinking about the army)

Although the look like regular civilian vehicles, and are mainly use to support road movements, day to day barracks life, transporting people to and from airports, picking up supplies etc etc you won't see the army picking up some guys from the airport in a bushmaster for example. But, In an invasion type event this large fleet of civilian vehicles would still be used to support the Army in perhaps warlike conditions where electric would not be Ideal at the moment.

 

[sptrawler]

On long haul like the Nullarbor just hitch up a couple of battery wagons.

Yep 5 goods wagons and 50 battery wagons. Lol
The diesels are about 2 MW and they use double headers, so 3,000km from Adelaide to Perth should be interesting.

 

[Value Collector]

Yep 5 goods wagons and 50 battery wagons. Lol

How many fuel wagons do they use on that trip? do the trains normally need to refuel on that route?

If as you guys say batteries are 20 times less dense, but the locos can normally hold enough fuel just on board the Loco itself, then it shouldn't take a lot of battery wagons, especially when you consider the diesel generator wastes so much fuel to heat, so you don't need the same amount of total energy.

If they do refuel them some where a long the way, then they could take that opportunity to recharge, maybe even have a renewable solar charging facility where they swap wagons that have been charging the day before from the sun. the sky is the limit with this stuff, its just up to the designers imagination.

 

[sptrawler]

How many fuel wagons do they use on that trip? do the trains normally need to refuel on that route?

If as you guys say batteries are 20 times less dense, but the locos can normally hold enough fuel just on board the Loco itself, then it shouldn't take a lot of battery wagons, especially when you consider the diesel generator wastes so much fuel to heat, so you don't need the same amount of total energy.

If they do refuel them some where a long the way, then they could take that opportunity to recharge, maybe even have a renewable solar charging facility where they swap wagons that have been charging the day before from the sun. the sky is the limit with this stuff, its just up to the designers imagination.

Well a road train uses about 1lt /km and they haul a hell of a lot less than a transcontinental freight train you do the maths, you reckon batteries are up to it.

 

[Value Collector]

Well a road train uses about 1lt /km and they haul a hell of a lot less than a transcontinental freight train you do the maths, you reckon batteries are up to it.

Trains can move 1 tonne of freight 211 kilometres on 1 litre of fuel, and that’s with losing 60% of the energy of that fuel to heat I. The generator. So you do the math, yeah I reckon batteries are up to it.

 

[sptrawler]

Trains can move 1 tonne of freight 211 kilometres on 1 litre of fuel, and that’s with losing 60% of the energy of that fuel to heat I. The generator. So you do the math, yeah I reckon batteries are up to it.
View attachment 172596

Gives you something to work with.
Hey I'm all for it, if it is feasible and I'm sure one day it will be, I'm just not sure it will be in my lifetime, I will be pleasantly surprised if it is.
Wind is clean and powerful and cheap, but there aren't many 200,000 ton cruise ships using them, it still has to be practical not just ideological.

 

[sptrawler]

Trains can move 1 tonne of freight 211 kilometres on 1 litre of fuel, and that’s with losing 60% of the energy of that fuel to heat I. The generator. So you do the math, yeah I reckon batteries are up to it.

So why would anyone buy a car, or run a truck over the Nullarbor, when trains get 211km/lt per ton.

A U.S freight train hauls a 12,500 ton load, what sort of voltage are you going to have to run to stop the batteries catching fire due to current draw at start up? You can't always load up at the top of a hill, sometimes you have to start at the bottom, ideology is great until it hits reality.
Another way of looking at it is, get your battery operated drill and chuck a 13mm drill bit in it, then drill through some sheet steel, great until it breaks through then grabs and trips the battery on over current.
Another way is your model 3 goes like a bat out of hell, chuck a 24' caravan on the back, leave the jockey wheel in as the model 3 probably doesn't have the towball capacity, start at the bottom of a big hill and monitor the battery, my guess it would be interesting.
Like you already know I have had an EV for 14 months doen 20,000km, love it, it works for me. Would I tell everyone to buy one? Probably not it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea at this point in time IMO.
Maybe one day, time will tell, I'm not a cult follower of anything, I always chose my own way and let everyone else work out theirs.

I remember a magic DCS upgrade that was going to save the company zillions, the total cost was projected to be about $80m.
Well that is what it cost for the first 1/3 of the job and they had to allow operator intervention, when most of the cost savings was based on replacing operators.

 

[Value Collector]

Gives you something to work with.
Hey I'm all for it, if it is feasible and I'm sure one day it will be, I'm just not sure it will be in my lifetime, I will be pleasantly surprised if it is.
Wind is clean and powerful and cheap, but there aren't many 200,000 ton cruise ships using them, it still has to be practical not just ideological.

They are just little baby trains compared to the ones we one the railway in the USA I am part owner in (via Berkshire Hathaway), BNSF rail is looking into all sorts of options to move away from diesel eventually. Here is a picture of our rail network, we move 15% of the intercity freight in the USA. Some of the routes are much longer than the Nullarbor

but just like the Nullarbor‘s existence isn‘t a genuine argument against 99.9% of Cars going EV, it’s also not an argument against most trains going ev, the vast majority of trains do much smaller loops think BHP, FMG Rio etc or are in areas with access to over head lines for parts of their trips, or in areas where over head lines for charging could be added.

 

[sptrawler]

They are just little baby trains compared to the ones we one the railway in the USA I am part owner in (via Berkshire Hathaway), BNSF rail is looking into all sorts of options to move away from diesel eventually. Here is a picture of our rail network, we move 15% of the intercity freight in the USA. Some of the routes are much longer than the Nullarbor

but just like the Nullarbor‘s existence isn‘t a genuine argument against 99.9% of Cars going EV, it’s also not an argument against most trains going ev, the vast majority of trains do much smaller loops think BHP, FMG Rio etc or are in areas with access to over head lines for parts of their trips, or in areas where over head lines for charging could be added.

View attachment 172599

Keep me updated on the long haul battery trains, but be mindful Australia isn't the U.S and not everyone has Berkshire shares.

Also as you are in the loop how many 3,000km long hau batteryl freight trains are running in the U.S?
Actually how many long haul 3,000km battery semi's are in operation in the U.S?

 

[Value Collector]

So why would anyone buy a car, or run a truck over the Nullarbor, when trains get 211km/lt per ton.

A U.S freight train hauls a 12,500 ton load, what sort of voltage are you going to have to run to stop the batteries catching fire due to current draw at start up? You can't always load up at the top of a hill, sometimes you have to start at the bottom, ideology is great until it hits reality.
Another way of looking at it is, get your battery operated drill and chuck a 13mm drill bit in it, then drill through some sheet steel, great until it breaks through then grabs and trips the battery on over current.
Another way is your model 3 goes like a bat out of hell, chuck a 24' caravan on the back, leave the jockey wheel in as the model 3 probably doesn't have the towball capacity, start at the bottom of a big hill and monitor the battery, my guess it would be interesting.

I remember a magic DCS upgrade that was going to save the company zillions, the total cost was projected to be about $80m.
Well that is what it cost for the first 1/3 of the job and they had to allow operator intervention, when most of the cost savings was based on replacing operators.

in the USA they literally load truck trailers on to trains to move them long distances, because of the fuel and labour savings.

But there are some situations where trucks are better, for example if the key is speed or if the truck needs to go where the rails don’t, or if the distance is short.

 

[sptrawler]

in the USA they literally load truck trailers on to trains to move them long distances, because of the fuel and labour savings.

But there are some situations where trucks are better, for example if the key is speed or if the truck needs to go where the rails don’t, or if the distance is short.

View attachment 172600View attachment 172601

So how many of the trains are battery operated, they are far more advanced than us, so that should give some perspective.

If anyone is going to save by going Battery train, Berkshire will. Sounds like a great jingle.

 

[Value Collector]

So how many of the trains are battery operated, they are far more advanced than us, so that should give some perspective.

If anyone is going to save by going Battery train, Berkshire will. Sounds like a great jingle.

I don’t think any yet.

but you don’t have to own Berkshire, here are the other railway companies that fill in the rest of the North American network.

Between Berkshire and these other 4 the most of the population of the USA and Canada has train service.

 

[sptrawler]

That's amazing, never been to the U.S or Canada, going to both over the course of this year, so pretty excited.

Do any use battery operated trains? Other than Disneyland.

I went on a battery operated ferry in Norway.

 

[Value Collector]

That's amazing, never been to the U.S or Canada, going to both over the course of this year, so pretty excited.

Do any use battery operated trains? Other than Disneyland.

I went on a battery operated ferry in Norway.

Hahaha, Disneyland’s train is actually a real steam engine, powered by a burner that uses used cooking oil from the parks.

But yeah, the freight train companies are dipping their toes into the water.

https://www.wired.com/story/battery-powered-trains-gather-speed/

 

[sptrawler]

Quick question VC, is Florida Disney close to the Fort Lauderdale cruise terminal?

 

[Value Collector]

Quick question VC, is Florida Disney close to the Fort Lauderdale cruise terminal?

No, the closet cruise terminal to Disney world is Port Canaveral (at cape Canaveral next to NASA).

Fort lauderdale is further south, about 3.5 hours drive from Disney world, it’s down near Miami.

 

[sptrawler]

No, the closet cruise terminal to Disney world is Port Canaveral (at cape Canaveral next to NASA).

Fort lauderdale is further south, about 3.5 hours drive from Disney world, it’s down near Miami.

View attachment 172607

Bugger that's a shame.

 

[sptrawler]

Interesting article.

Why petrol is making a temporary comeback in the battle with EVs - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au