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Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.9%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.8%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 37 18.9%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 24 12.2%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    196
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Good grief.

There are cheap ICEVs.

There are no cheap EVs.

Does this compute? Is it simple enough to grasp?

You can only pretend EVs are cheap if you compare them to expensive ICEVs.

You're being completely dishonest.

Another factor in the equation is that EVs probably won't hold their value or last as long as ICEVs. My Subaru is over 20 years old and has done well over 400,000km. Sure, that's unusual, but it still gets about the same range out of a tank as it did the day it drove out of the showroom.

Looking at the life expectancy for ICEVs vs EVs, anything that loaded with tech and gadgets isn't going to age well, and the battery itself will lose efficiency over the years. We all know we don't get as long out of our phone lithium batteries after a couple of years compared to the first six months.

We know that laptops etc become obsolete etc pretty quickly. Even the EV I was driving at less than one month old had some glitches in the electronics and fancy software.

We all know that even looking at traditional cars, the life expectancy has been consistently dropping, which makes purchase price an even bigger consideration.

As QLDFrog says, if you want to compare to a Ferrari, sure, you can make an EV look cheap, but that's just being blatantly dishonest and completely absurd. Find me an EV which is cost competitive with a basic car like the majority of people buy. Or looking at the second hand market, find me an EV a few years old which has decent range etc (a 10 year old second hand ICEV will have a perfectly respectable range). Heck, if you're able to afford a Ferrari or a new Tesla etc, you're hardly worried about the cost of a tank of fuel anyway.

Find me an EV I can fully charge from near empty in a quarter of the time I can refuel an ICEV from empty tank (and even then I won't get the same range out of an EV unless you want to compare the best range EV with the worst range ICEV and completely ignore the radical price differences etc).
 
Are EVs Worth It In Australia? Let The Numbers Decide, With Our Free, Nerdy Excel Tool

Unsure if EVs are the right fit for you? We’ve got you covered. This article presents an advanced Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) and emissions calculator to compare EVs and internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles, available via a link at the end. And yes, we’re talking about emissions too! After all, that’s what kick-started the EV revolution. But for those focused on the bottom line, fear not – this calculator mostly focuses on dollars.

Our powerful Excel-based calculator shows you the true cost of electric vehicle (EV) ownership in Australia. Don’t be fooled by the higher upfront cost – evaluating TCO over the vehicle’s life cycle reveals the real financial impact on your wallet and the atmosphere.

So dive into the numbers and make an informed decision about when you should embrace the electric future.

How Does It Work?​

Pretty simple.

Worked Example​

ev-vs-ice-worked-example-tab.jpg

There’s a “Worked Example” on the first tab of the Excel spreadsheet which is locked and uneditable. The figures, based on two comparable vehicles, are already entered in, and then output to two graphs – one for TCO $, and the other for emissions.

The full methodology for the example is provided further in this article to not only show full transparency and methodology but also to help you enter your own data into the next tab – “User Comparison”.

User Comparison​

ev-vs-ice-user-comparison-tab.jpg

This is where the fun starts. Click on the “User Comparison” tab at the bottom of the spreadsheet. You can enter your own figures here and compare any vehicles you like – even used ones, but remember – garbage in, garbage out................................

www.solarquotes.com.au

Are EVs Worth It In Australia? Let The Numbers Decide, With Our Free, Nerdy Excel Tool

Discover the true cost of EV ownership in Australia with our free, powerful Excel calculator! Compare EVs & ICE cars with cold, hard numbers.
www.solarquotes.com.au www.solarquotes.com.au
Click to expand...
 
Jaguar has introduced its last combustion engine sports car, coming to Australia next year.
​
"Jaguar will celebrate its last internal-combustion-engined sportscar with F-Type ZP Editions, built during the model's final year of production (2024), as the company gears up to go fully electric the following year. The cars' specification mirrors the E-type Project ZP Collection from Jaguar Classic."​

Jaguar celebrates its last petrol sportscar in 1960s style​

Jaguar will celebrate its last internal-combustion-engined sportscar with F-Type ZP Editions, built during the model's final year of production (2024), as the company gears up to go fully electric the following year. The cars' specification mirrors the E-type Project ZP Collection from Jaguar Classic.

_zpedition_exterior_front_3qr_oultonblue_pr_111023.jpg

Created by SV Besopoke, just 150 F-Type ZPs will be built – each with its own 'one of 150' build plaque. You can choose from one of two colour combinations – Oulton Blue Gloss paint with a Mars Red and Ebony interior or Crystal Grey Gloss paint with a Navy Blue and Ebony interior.

Both paint jobs are unique to the F-Type range, and each ZP also sports Porcelain White Gloss hand-painted roundels on the doors, Porcelain White Gloss grille surrounds and Glossy Black exterior highlights, including on the brake callipers. A set of Black Diamond Turned 20-inch forged alloy wheels finish the job.

zpedition_exterior_front_3qr_crystalgrey_pr_111023.jpg

Based on the R75, the ZP Editions pack Jaguar's familiar 575PS (423kW), 700Nm (515 lb-ft) supercharged V8, which thrusts this four-wheeled leviathan from 0-62mph in 3.5 seconds and onto a 186mph limited top speed.
The supercharged Jaguar V8's sound won't die with the F-Type; the British Library has archived the iconic noise.

-type_24my_zpedition_exterior_e-typeside_pr_111023.jpg

Jaguar MD, Rawdon Glover, said: "As Jaguar embarks on the boldest transformation in its history to become a modern luxury all-electric brand from 2025, this is an unrepeatable celebration of Jaguar's internal combustion sportscar provenance.
"F-TYPE has captivated sportscar drivers for more than a decade, just as the E-type did five decades before it. The ZP Edition is the ultimate celebration of that lineage, joining an illustrious roster of heritage-inspired collector's editions, including the 2015 Project 7 and 2020 Heritage 60 Edition."
Click to expand...
 
SirRumpole said:
Probably mentioned before, but counclis won't like EV owners running cabl;es over public footpaths.

www.drive.com.au

'A risk to public safety': Councils issue warning to electric car owners

EV owners who charge their cars by running extension cords over the footpath could face substantial fines.
www.drive.com.au www.drive.com.au
Click to expand...

Solution? Councils install more charging stations especially in those 'burbs which do not have off-street parking. Problem? Lack of available space to install said charging stations.

Anyway, I think the 600km retractable extension cords are a greater cause for concern.
 
Belli said:
Solution? Councils install more charging stations especially in those 'burbs which do not have off-street parking. Problem? Lack of available space to install said charging stations.

Anyway, I think the 600km retractable extension cords are a greater cause for concern.
Click to expand...
they could always opt for overhead cables like they did for electric trams and trolley buses , take the demand edge for batteries as well

nice to see a well-organized ( WEF ) agenda

all they need is for Tony Blair to replace Klaus
 
In a big win for Victorian Electric Vehicle owners, the High Court has ruled that a tax on EV 's travel, whether within the state or out of it, is invalid.
From ABC News
The High Court has thrown out a controversial Victorian tax on electric cars which applies to zero and low-emission vehicles.

Key points:​

  • A Victorian road-user tax that charges electric vehicle users by how far they travel was found to be unconstitutional
  • The High Court determined the tax was an excise, which cannot be imposed by states or territories
  • The judgement means other jurisdictions are now prevented from introducing similar charges

The state government charge has been applied at a rate of about two cents per kilometre and was designed to match the contribution drivers of fuel-powered vehicles already make to road maintenance through a Commonwealth fuel excise.

It means drivers of plug-in hybrid and fully electric vehicles must pay for the distance they travel on public roads, both in and outside Victoria.

But electric car owners Christopher Vanderstock and Kathleen Davies mounted a High Court challenge, arguing the tax was an illegal "tax grab" because it was an excise, which only the Commonwealth could impose.

Today, the High Court agreed, finding the Victorian tax was unconstitutional.
Click to expand...
Not a lot of money saved, but hey anytime the state govt loses a case is good news to me.
mick
 
mullokintyre said:
In a big win for Victorian Electric Vehicle owners, the High Court has ruled that a tax on EV 's travel, whether within the state or out of it, is invalid.
From ABC News

Not a lot of money saved, but hey anytime the state govt loses a case is good news to me.
mick
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The Feds will put it on sooner or later. Lol
At least that take some time, because they will stuff it up as usual.
 
sptrawler said:
The Feds will put it on sooner or later. Lol
At least that take some time, because they will stuff it up as usual.
Click to expand...

The Victorian government haven't given up yet.

The chief justice, Susan Kiefel, along with justices Stephen Gageler, Jacqueline Gleeson, and Jayne Jagot, ruled in favour of the plaintiffs with the Victorian government ordered to pay legal costs. The court was divided in its 4-3 ruling.​
​
A Victorian government spokesman said the state was disappointed with the outcome but accepted the court’s ruling and would take time to consider the judgement.​
​
A spokeswoman from the Treasurer said Labor was seeking advice on the ruling and would work with Victoria and other states in relation to electric vehicle policy.​
 
JohnDe said:
The Victorian government haven't given up yet.

The chief justice, Susan Kiefel, along with justices Stephen Gageler, Jacqueline Gleeson, and Jayne Jagot, ruled in favour of the plaintiffs with the Victorian government ordered to pay legal costs. The court was divided in its 4-3 ruling.​
​
A Victorian government spokesman said the state was disappointed with the outcome but accepted the court’s ruling and would take time to consider the judgement.​
​
A spokeswoman from the Treasurer said Labor was seeking advice on the ruling and would work with Victoria and other states in relation to electric vehicle policy.​
Click to expand...
They could just put up the cost of registration of all vehicles to achieve the same end.
Less administration, and very little chance the High court would prevent it.
And the govt can keep all the mulah in treasury and still leave the roads in a state of disaster outside Melbourne, while declaring its the fault of the feds for not passing on all the fossil fuel excise to vic.
Mick
 
SirRumpole said:
I'm sure they could figure out how to put charging outlets on power poles.
Click to expand...
The technical ease of doing it depends on circumstances but if it's overhead mains, and there's low voltage (230/400V) on that pole then it's dead simple.

Not so simple if it's underground mains and the pole is just a streetlight. It may or may not have constant supply, different authorities did that in different ways, and even if it does capacity may not be adequate.

Also very problematic if it's overhead mains but only HV (High Voltage - generally 11,000V or above) is on that pole.

So overall a lot could be done yes but not all. :2twocents
 
mullokintyre said:
They could just put up the cost of registration of all vehicles to achieve the same end.
Click to expand...
They could but it'll probably prompt some political backlash for two reasons:

1. It's a flat charge that will see some pay more and others less versus a user pays approach.

2. In some states that'll make car registration the single largest bill the average person routinely receives. Politicians likely don't want to draw to attention the total cost and would prefer to separate it into different payments for that reason.
 
Smurf1976 said:
The technical ease of doing it depends on circumstances but if it's overhead mains, and there's low voltage (230/400V) on that pole then it's dead simple.

Not so simple if it's underground mains and the pole is just a streetlight. It may or may not have constant supply, different authorities did that in different ways, and even if it does capacity may not be adequate.

Also very problematic if it's overhead mains but only HV (High Voltage - generally 11,000V or above) is on that pole.

So overall a lot could be done yes but not all. :2twocents
Click to expand...
That is where the engineer fails the human knowledge, having charging points on the street is technically possible, but who should pay for it, and how long do you think it takes for them to be vandalized?
So who pay to repair, we all agree EV users should pay, not the people with no car...
 
qldfrog said:
how long do you think it takes for them to be vandalized?
Click to expand...
That would depend heavily on the location.

I've seen phone chargers in public, out in the open in a park complete with supplied cable, and they seemed to be suffering zero problems with vandalism etc. That was in Qatar however, a very different society than ours.

But then I've seen a whole street full of kiosk type chargers, with vehicles parked and plugged in overnight, in France.
 
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