Electric cars?

[sptrawler]

The car in question was a statutory writeoff oafter an accident, so was damaged, parts previously not exposed to moisture, suddenly are.
As someone who has pulled a fair share of old cars apart, bolted or welded parts that are bare metal and not treated or painted, but have seam sealer applied will last for 50 years without rust.
You pull them apart and expose them to air, and they will be rusty within a week.
Cars made from aluminium or other alloys would not have the same problem.
BYD is cheap to make coz they are made with cheaper thin wall steel rather than more expensive aluminium and other alloys.
Mick

A lot of manufacturers these days like VW etc, pre treat the panels with corrosion protection, so it isn't an issue as such.

 

[qldfrog]

The car in question was a statutory writeoff oafter an accident, so was damaged, parts previously not exposed to moisture, suddenly are.
As someone who has pulled a fair share of old cars apart, bolted or welded parts that are bare metal and not treated or painted, but have seam sealer applied will last for 50 years without rust.
You pull them apart and expose them to air, and they will be rusty within a week.
Cars made from aluminium or other alloys would not have the same problem.
BYD is cheap to make coz they are made with cheaper thin wall steel rather than more expensive aluminium and other alloys.
Mick

So no rust on yours Mick?

 

[mullokintyre]

So no rust on yours Mick?

You mean in the Atto3 or any of the other old wrecks I have.
In the case of the Atto3, I have not looked.
And I am certainly not going to pull the car apart to check!
In a general sense, there is always corrosion over time on anything exposed to air.
You can never get away with it unless perhaps the car spends its entire time in the Sahara desert.
Paint may provide a barrier, but even that gets broken down over time.
Mick

 

[JohnDe]

A lot of manufacturers these days like VW etc, pre treat the panels with corrosion protection, so it isn't an issue as such.

The type of metal used is also a factor. I remember reading a history article about Fiat, they sourced cheap steal from Russia during the early 70's, and the cars virtually started to rust on day one.

Why don't cars rust as badly as they used to? ...the steel used to manufacture modern cars is hot-dip galvanised right at the end of the steel manufacturing process.

I had some steel off cuts from Mitsubishi in the late 1990's, what I didn't need I left out in the weather, it looked galvanized. they sat there for years and no noticeable corrosion formed.

 

[sptrawler]

The type of metal used is also a factor. I remember reading a history article about Fiat, they sourced cheap steal from Russia during the early 70's, and the cars virtually started to rust on day one.

Why don't cars rust as badly as they used to? ...the steel used to manufacture modern cars is hot-dip galvanised right at the end of the steel manufacturing process.

I had some steel off cuts from Mitsubishi in the late 1990's, what I didn't need I left out in the weather, it looked galvanized. they sat there for years and no noticeable corrosion formed.

Exactly what I was getting at, from the picture of the BYD, unless it has been ground for some repair reason, it isn't a good look. I just watched the whole video, not a good look, very much like untreated panels and main body shell.
Very much like the 70's, one of the only vehicles back then to be galvanised, was the Porsche. Now most are, which is why they wear out before they rust out, as opposed to the old cars.
The big issue if the article is accurate, will be in a few years when they start showing severe cosmetic rust, hopefully the article isn't accurate.

 

[rcw1]

JohnDe
1 outa 2 ordered Tesla 3's have arrived in Brisbavus. Being sent north soon.
They will be company cars driven by son's, rcw1 gets to keep his scooter ha ha ha ha

Have a good one JohnDe.

Kind regards
rcw1

Good afternoon
New Tesla been dropped off at grandsons home FNQ about a month ago now …
Yet to be in it for a ride …. That is gunna change right now, all excited and stuff

Young bloke just picked rcw1 up at the Cairns airport. On the road, good ride at the minute … travelling to Cooktown. Don’t recall ever seeing a Tesla there …. The town will be abuzz ha ha ha ha Have seen quite afew Tesla’s in Cairns though .


Have a great day.

EDIT: had to muck around with photo to remove grandson from photo …
Kind regards
Rcw1

 

[farmerge]

Good afternoon
New Tesla been dropped off at grandsons home FNQ about a month ago now …
Yet to be in it for a ride …. That is gunna change right now, all excited and stuff

Young bloke just picked rcw1 up at the Cairns airport. On the road, good ride at the minute … travelling to Cooktown. Don’t recall ever seeing a Tesla there …. The town will be abuzz ha ha ha ha Have seen quite afew Tesla’s in Cairns though .

Have a great day.

Kind regards
Rcw1

haven't ridden in a tesla but in another breed. Good acceleration, obviously dead quite, and a very comfortsble ride.

 

[rcw1]

haven't ridden in a tesla but in another breed. Good acceleration, obviously dead quite, and a very comfortsble ride.

Good evening farmerge
Travels well and got some grunt… has the Tesla 3. Remarkable technology. First time ever in a car like that, normally in me Troopie ha ha ha

Be interesting to witness where new technologies take this type of vehicle.

Kind regards
Rcw1

 

[farmerge]

Good evening farmerge
Travels well and got some grunt… has the Tesla 3. Remarkable technology. First time ever in a car like that, normally in me Troopie ha ha ha

Be interesting to witness where new technologies take this type of vehicle.

Kind regards
Rcw1

Seriously thinking of trading the Subaru in on an electric. Power costs us nothing these days if charged at home.
Perhaps the trusty diesel Landcruiser t/t will be next ??????

 

[mullokintyre]

Seriously thinking of trading the Subaru in on an electric. Power costs us nothing these days if charged at home.
Perhaps the trusty diesel Landcruiser t/t will be next ??????

Howdy Farmerge,
We took delivery of a BYD atto3 back in December, not because of desires to save money on fuel, save the planet, or to flout my virtue signalling credentials.
It was a form of Insurance in case we could not get fuel for some reason, and as we had a substantial solar panel / battery storage system, it made sense.
I chose the Atto3 for a couple of reasons.

1. The SUV type of vehicle is significantly easier for my arthritis ruined old body to get in and out of.
2. Of the three vehicles I ordered (Tesla, Volvo and BYD), it was the first to arrive.
3. The changeover price was pretty much the same as replacing the existing CX5 with a new model.
4. The claimed range (480 km's) should have been enough to get us to Melbourne and back without having to recharge along the way.

The first thing we found out , was the claimed range is nothing like the truth if you are travelling at 110 kmh on Freeways. We now plan on around a safety margin of 330 km's if travelling at the 100 or 110 kmh speeds.
Living some distance away from the big smoke of Melbourne (around 200km's), most of our driving is on country roads of varying degrees of quality. Things such as lane control, self steering etc don't work to well on roads that don't even have a clear centre line, much less a solid edge line. As for non paved roads, less said the better.
We recently went on a weeks trip up through NSW to the Hunter Valley.
Planning a route is crucial, because
1. The number of Charging facilities is nowhere near the amount of diesel/petrol stops.
2. At sites where charging occurs, the number of physical chargers is limited. While Charging at Barnawatha , I sat down and had a coffee while waiting the 25 minutes or so to go from 40% to 100% charge. There were 16 separate diesel/petrol pump stations to fill up, versus four EV charging stations. In a five minute period, I counted 23 vehicles who filled up at the pumps as I waited with the bloke in a Polestar next to me.
3. The high number of charging spots that don't work due to broken cables, damaged plugs, no electricity, no comms connections or something else is a worry. Its bad enough if one out of four charging stations is not working, but when all of them are out of action you could be in a little trouble.
4. On long trips, do not stray from the freeways. We chose to go up through Wagga to Mudgee via Bathurst to catch up with friends. Ended up having to stay at a Motel in Cootamundra that allowed us to plug into their (slow) wall socket to get to Bathurst because all of the Junee chargers were out of action.
5. Apps like plugshare are great if everyone checks in. There were a number of instances where we would check on a charging station that said they were not being used only to find them in use when we arrived because not everyone checks in.
6. just on the apps, I now have eight different apps on my phone for charging, finding EV charge points etc. Be prepared to have to stand on a hill in some places to get mobile phone reception to be able to start charging.
7. Beware of Tesla drivers. Although there is an excellent network of high quality Tesla chargers around, a lot of Tesla drivers shun them because the cost of charging, and so head to the cheaper (or free) non tesla chargers. Most Tesla chargers are unavailable to non tesla owners, so the reverse is not true. Tesla have made 5 tesla stations in NSW available to non tesla users, and we were able to use two of them, one at Bathurst, and one at a Holledene estate Winery North of Singleton. They work really well, are fast, but are not cheap. Wish all charging stations were built by Tesla.
8. Never pass up an opportunity to charge, you never know if the next on on the planned route will be available or working.

I am sure city dwelling owners will have more benign views of charging.
However, if as I suspect you are not in the big smoke, range and the charging is a big issue, not insurmountable, but something that takes a little planning and some unscheduled stops.
And don't get rid of the cruiser, you always need a backup.

Mick

 

[qldfrog]

Howdy Farmerge,
We took delivery of a BYD atto3 back in December, not because of desires to save money on fuel, save the planet, or to flout my virtue signalling credentials.
It was a form of Insurance in case we could not get fuel for some reason, and as we had a substantial solar panel / battery storage system, it made sense.
I chose the Atto3 for a couple of reasons.

1. The SUV type of vehicle is significantly easier for my arthritis ruined old body to get in and out of.
2. Of the three vehicles I ordered (Tesla, Volvo and BYD), it was the first to arrive.
3. The changeover price was pretty much the same as replacing the existing CX5 with a new model.
4. The claimed range (480 km's) should have been enough to get us to Melbourne and back without having to recharge along the way.

The first thing we found out , was the claimed range is nothing like the truth if you are travelling at 110 kmh on Freeways. We now plan on around a safety margin of 330 km's if travelling at the 100 or 110 kmh speeds.
Living some distance away from the big smoke of Melbourne (around 200km's), most of our driving is on country roads of varying degrees of quality. Things such as lane control, self steering etc don't work to well on roads that don't even have a clear centre line, much less a solid edge line. As for non paved roads, less said the better.
We recently went on a weeks trip up through NSW to the Hunter Valley.
Planning a route is crucial, because
1. The number of Charging facilities is nowhere near the amount of diesel/petrol stops.
2. At sites where charging occurs, the number of physical chargers is limited. While Charging at Barnawatha , I sat down and had a coffee while waiting the 25 minutes or so to go from 40% to 100% charge. There were 16 separate diesel/petrol pump stations to fill up, versus four EV charging stations. In a five minute period, I counted 23 vehicles who filled up at the pumps as I waited with the bloke in a Polestar next to me.
3. The high number of charging spots that don't work due to broken cables, damaged plugs, no electricity, no comms connections or something else is a worry. Its bad enough if one out of four charging stations is not working, but when all of them are out of action you could be in a little trouble.
4. On long trips, do not stray from the freeways. We chose to go up through Wagga to Mudgee via Bathurst to catch up with friends. Ended up having to stay at a Motel in Cootamundra that allowed us to plug into their (slow) wall socket to get to Bathurst because all of the Junee chargers were out of action.
5. Apps like plugshare are great if everyone checks in. There were a number of instances where we would check on a charging station that said they were not being used only to find them in use when we arrived because not everyone checks in.
6. just on the apps, I now have eight different apps on my phone for charging, finding EV charge points etc. Be prepared to have to stand on a hill in some places to get mobile phone reception to be able to start charging.
7. Beware of Tesla drivers. Although there is an excellent network of high quality Tesla chargers around, a lot of Tesla drivers shun them because the cost of charging, and so head to the cheaper (or free) non tesla chargers. Most Tesla chargers are unavailable to non tesla owners, so the reverse is not true. Tesla have made 5 tesla stations in NSW available to non tesla users, and we were able to use two of them, one at Bathurst, and one at a Holledene estate Winery North of Singleton. They work really well, are fast, but are not cheap. Wish all charging stations were built by Tesla.
8. Never pass up an opportunity to charge, you never know if the next on on the planned route will be available or working.

I am sure city dwelling owners will have more benign views of charging.
However, if as I suspect you are not in the big smoke, range and the charging is a big issue, not insurmountable, but something that vtakes a little planning and some unscheduled stops.
And don't get rid of the cruiser,you always need a backup.

Mick

I do like your input Mick as this seems to fit with my conditions.
Not sold yet but atto3 would be the go to.
One point critical for us.
We live in the "mountains" aka hilly so any drive is up down a lot.what are EV owners experience with range in these conditions?
Braking downhill should recharge and may partly compensate for the extra power required uphill.
But is this really working?

 

[mullokintyre]

I do like your input Mick as this seems to fit with my conditions.
Not sold yet but atto3 would be the go to.
One point critical for us.
We live in the "mountains" aka hilly so any drive is up down a lot.what are EV owners experience with range in these conditions?
Braking downhill should recharge and may partly compensate for the extra power required uphill.
But is this really working?

The recharge does indeed work, but its not completely loss free.
So lets say to go up a hill of 500 metres at 80 kmhr, and uses 2 kwhr for the task, when you come down again on the other side, the regen braking will not give you the full 2 kwhr back again.
Just for fun, I tried doing some comparisons, but there was too much variation in the contours to make it accurate , but it seemed to be in excess of 60% regen, but that figure has a wide margin of error.
Mick

 

[qldfrog]

The recharge does indeed work, but its not completely loss free.
So lets say to go up a hill of 500 metres at 80 kmhr, and uses 2 kwhr for the task, when you come down again on the other side, the regen braking will not give you the full 2 kwhr back again.
Just for fun, I tried doing some comparisons, but there was too much variation in the contours to make it accurate , but it seemed to be in excess of 60% regen, but that figure has a wide margin of error.
Mick

Yes I understand the inevitable loss, I know as well that charging discharging a battery loses around 10% to 20 % usually conveniently forgotten by pro EV fanatics?, but for hills you have as well the brake aka mother power generator side..thanks so that 60% rough figure is quite interesting.thanks?
60% not too bad ,should get enough juice left to go back home

 

[mullokintyre]

Yes I understand the inevitable loss, I know as well that charging discharging a battery loses around 10% to 20 % usually conveniently forgotten by pro EV fanatics?, but for hills you have as well the brake aka mother power generator side..thanks so that 60% rough figure is quite interesting.thanks?
60% not too bad ,should get enough juice left to go back home

Just found this article from Tesla club

The full cycle of wheel-battery-wheel is +/-70% efficient. In other words of the kinetic energy you'd normally expend using friction brakes about 70% of that is regained when you speed up again, and 30% is lost to heat in the battery, heat in the motor (AKA generator), imperfect tire grip, and so on.

That's pretty good for an energy round trip.

Of course ultimately the most efficient regen is the regen you don't use, in that if you always free-roll coast down to a stop without using friction brakes (or in the case of ICE, engine retarding) that will always be the more efficient path from energy use POV. But for times when it isn't practical to not use some sort of braking, and the lower your rolling resistance and air resistance is the more often that'll be the case, the Model 3 regen is really good.

Not if there is any science behind it, but it was the first thing I came across that had any estimates in them.
I think the speed at which the car was travelling, rolling resistance, Air resistance , road conditions etc would all make a difference.
Mick

 

[sptrawler]

Good afternoon
New Tesla been dropped off at grandsons home FNQ about a month ago now …
Yet to be in it for a ride …. That is gunna change right now, all excited and stuff

Young bloke just picked rcw1 up at the Cairns airport. On the road, good ride at the minute … travelling to Cooktown. Don’t recall ever seeing a Tesla there …. The town will be abuzz ha ha ha ha Have seen quite afew Tesla’s in Cairns though .
View attachment 153692

Have a great day.

EDIT: had to muck around with photo to remove grandson from photo …
Kind regards
Rcw1

Jeez black car, black glass roof, far North Queensland. That will get the chicks warm. ?

 

[sptrawler]

I do like your input Mick as this seems to fit with my conditions.
Not sold yet but atto3 would be the go to.
One point critical for us.
We live in the "mountains" aka hilly so any drive is up down a lot.what are EV owners experience with range in these conditions?
Braking downhill should recharge and may partly compensate for the extra power required uphill.
But is this really working?

The two things that make a huge difference to range are speed and air conditioning. Read up on the different car forums to get accurate information, some makes don't have a very strong regen mode.
I think I read the new Subaru EV is a bit lacking in that area, but it is well worth checking out what you are buying and what fits your personal requirements.
I personally would stay away from glass roofs, if I was after maximum range, unless I lived in the U.K where the heater is probably the main drain on the battery. In W.A heat in summer is the killer, air con is required and it does hit the range big time.
Just my two cents worth. Google is your friend.

 

[JohnDe]

Yes I understand the inevitable loss, I know as well that charging discharging a battery loses around 10% to 20 % usually conveniently forgotten by pro EV fanatics?, but for hills you have as well the brake aka mother power generator side..thanks so that 60% rough figure is quite interesting.thanks?
60% not too bad ,should get enough juice left to go back home

2015 TESLA MODEL S RANGE CHECK AT 100000KM by Tesla Tom in 2023

 

[Value Collector]

Jeez black car, black glass roof, far North Queensland. That will get the chicks warm. ?

There is a sun shade from Tesla that slots into that roof nicely for those of us who like to be sun smart, the last road trip we did Mrs VC went a step further and put a pillow case in-between the sun shade and the glass for added protection.

 

[Value Collector]

I just noticed you can get a complete block out shade too, (don’t tell Mrs VC this)

 

[sptrawler]

I just noticed you can get a complete block out shade too, (don’t tell Mrs VC this)

View attachment 153749

On the jeep, I also put some foil and foam insulation in between the glass and the shade, so I had glass sunroof a layer of cloth, a layer of 8mm foil backed foam insulation, then the sunshade.
The last thing I wanted in the E.V was a sunroof, or any other colour than white, best move ever for Perth climate. ?