Electric cars?

[Value Collector]

I have the feeling retail EV will go the way of the LPG cars so popular 20y ago..do we even remember? You can not if you are a millennial...

The Hybrid Electric vehicles is what killed the LPG cars.

The majority of LPG’s were taxis, but now they are hybrids because hybrids are more efficient, because of the EV part of the equation.

I am a Millennial, and owned a LPG car for 17 years, until I sent it to the scrap yard and bought a Tesla.

Petrol cars will go the way of LPG,

 

[Value Collector]

Still 3 stops for a 900km trip and I assume leaving fully charged.
More than one hour extra to save at most 80l of diesel or $160 on my antique 4wd ute.
Take a plane....
That assumes you pay zero for recharge.
And this ute work beast is not the most frugal in term of consumption and not an ideal comfort choice either ?
For a fair comparison, you need to have a lot of free time and will never recover the $20k to $30k extra cost of the EV battery in fuel saving only.
The way I see it following this thread with interest:
For a std retail user
EVs are uneconomical , have recharge constraints which are limiting them greatly for away from base travel
So a great runabout choice for cashed up buyers or a bit show off and liking tech early adopters, but otherwise...
I understand that car buying does not have to make sense, Ferraris have been sold for years,and I even bought a 1965 spoke wheels MGB in my age crisis fooliness.
A big thank you to all the EV owners sharing their experience here BTW, even the ones on my ignore list.
Most appreciated

Don’t you make 3 stops in a Petrol car.

1. To fuel up at the start
2. To fuel up at the end
3. To take a pee some where in between.

I think that’s the minimum, so you aren’t saving time in a petrol car.

I have been driving Brisbane to Sydney route regularly since 2001, and I can tell you the Tesla doesn’t take any longer, 3 stops at 15 to 20 mins each that you multi task with break you normally take in a petrol car to fuel, get food, pee and stretching your legs etc means the ev takes no extra time.

 

[Value Collector]

From The driven

Given that they have such a big margin on sales, why would Tesla cannibalise that profit to make smaller cars?
Unless of course they have reached the point where the majority of those who would buy an EV have been satisfied, and now they have to compete on price with the entry level ICE cars.
They also have the Tesla Semi and Cybertruck about to commense production, are they going to be able to spread their people assets over so much area?
Mick

Look at Mercedes, they build cars, trucks, buses, military vehicles, commercial vehicles many more product lines than Tesla, I can’t see an issue with Tesla having a truck, a pickup and a 5 cars models.

 

[Value Collector]

At about the 1:10 mark red multi coat costs $2,900.

Mercedes charges up to $8000 US for premium paints.

 

[SirRumpole]

Mercedes charges up to $8000 US for premium paints.

Mercedes buyers would fall for things like that.

 

[mullokintyre]

Look at Mercedes, they build cars, trucks, buses, military vehicles, commercial vehicles many more product lines than Tesla, I can’t see an issue with Tesla having a truck, a pickup and a 5 cars models.

Yes, but the concern over number of models was not the point I was making.
They are already tooling up for the other two vehicles, will they sacrifice production of other models for the new one, or will there be new factories built?
Tesla are making great margins on the cars they sell now.
If they introduce a model that is effectively half the price of the existing models, will they not cannibilise their existing sales?
How many punters will fork out for a M3 or MY when they can get a much cheaper model.
Unless they can bring an entirely new segment of the market place with them, they will reduce their margins significantly.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

Yes, but the concern over number of models was not the point I was making.
They are already tooling up for the other two vehicles, will they sacrifice production of other models for the new one, or will there be new factories built?
Tesla are making great margins on the cars they sell now.
If they introduce a model that is effectively half the price of the existing models, will they not cannibilise their existing sales?
How many punters will fork out for a M3 or MY when they can get a much cheaper model.
Unless they can bring an entirely new segment of the market place with them, they will reduce their margins significantly.
Mick

There is new production facilities being built, they just announced the other day a new factory in Nevada to produce the Semi.

As for losing sales in the other categories, that could happen, I mean the model three did reduce sales in the model S, but total sales and profits were significantly higher after the model 3.

Just about all vehicle manufacturers have different classes of vehicles don’t they?

I mean back in the day I remember the Holden Barina was a popular car, but I still purchased a commodore.

I am not sure the Barina and commodores were that similar in market appeal that they cannibalised each other.

 

[mullokintyre]

There is new production facilities being built, they just announced the other day a new factory in Nevada to produce the Semi.

As for losing sales in the other categories, that could happen, I mean the model three did reduce sales in the model S, but total sales and profits were significantly higher after the model 3.

Just about all vehicle manufacturers have different classes of vehicles don’t they?

I mean back in the day I remember the Holden Barina was a popular car, but I still purchased a commodore.

I am not sure the Barina and commodores were that similar in market appeal that they cannibalised each other.

Geez, fancy admitting to buying a commodore, i would have kept that quiet!.
mick

 

[Value Collector]

Geez, fancy admitting to buying a commodore, i would have kept that quiet!.
mick

Well it was my first car, got it second hand and kept it 17 years, Now I drive a Tesla. Hahaha.

I am not a car guy, it served its purpose, what more could I want?

 

[JohnDe]

Geez, fancy admitting to buying a commodore, i would have kept that quiet!.
mick

Commodore became a world competitive vehicle. What other rear drive passenger vehicle could be purchased for the money, BMW 318, Mercedes 300 series? A Holden V8 would cost you $55.000, when they closed the doors the next cheapest was either a BMW or Merc at over $120,000.

If I had a large storage area, I would be purchasing a few.

Holden Commodores through the years

With Australia's automotive manufacturing industry poised to close forever within a couple of years, we look at Australia's changing taste in cars.

www.carsguide.com.au

 

[mullokintyre]

what more could I want?

I can think of a few things, but won't go into it.
Mick

 

[mullokintyre]

Commodore became a world competitive vehicle. What other rear drive passenger vehicle could be purchased for the money, BMW 318, Mercedes 300 series? A Holden V8 would cost you $55.000, when they closed the doors the next cheapest was either a BMW or Merc at over $120,000.

I had switched to AWD cars some time prior to the demise of the commodore.

If I had a large storage area, I would be purchasing a few.

If I had a large storage area, I would be renting out.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

I can think of a few things, but won't go into it.
Mick

Meh,… as I said it served its purpose for me, I am not a car guy, I just like my car to be a work horse for me, the Tesla is only the second car I have owned in my life, the commodore was a work horse that served me well for 17 years, and it was 5 years old when I purchased it second hand.

It seemed like a great car to me, Now the Tesla model 3 fills that role nicely, year 4 into ownership it’s going great.

 

[JohnDe]

I had switched to AWD cars some time prior to the demise of the commodore.

If I had a large storage area, I would be renting out.
Mick

Same. Just saying for the size of our market and the budget given to GMH, the engineers and workers built a decent car for the average person. Which were fairly cheap to maintain and repair and drove across some of the roughest country in the world.

I have never owned a Commodore but worked on quite a few, I do own the Ute version which I still hold.

The Yanks are buying up the VF utes and taking them to America.

 

[sptrawler]

Select Tesla Superchargers open for all electric cars in Australia

Tesla Superchargers are now open to all electric cars, but only in some locations.

www.drive.com.au

A handful of Tesla Supercharger stations in Australia can now recharge electric cars from other manufacturers – mirroring a move made in Europe 18 months ago.
The US electric-car specialist announced today five of its circa-50 Supercharger locations in Australia – which until now have been exclusive to drivers of Tesla cars – will now support all makes and models of electric vehicles.
All five locations are located in New South Wales – and can deliver up to 120kW, rather than the 250kW of Tesla’s latest ‘V3’ Superchargers. Drive understands the company intends to expand the number of Australian Superchargers available to all electric cars at a later date.

The Superchargers cost 79 cents per kilowatt-hour for drivers of non-Tesla cars – compared to about 58 to 70 cents for Tesla vehicles, depending on the location.
However, non-Tesla drivers can join a $9.99/month subscription that cuts the charging cost per kilowatt-hour to 66 cents.

 

[sptrawler]

Toyota to install electric-car chargers across its dealer network by the end of this year

Toyota Australia has announced a new network of electric-car chargers for its dealerships.

www.drive.com.au

Toyota Australia has announced it will roll out an electric-car charging network across its national network of 232 dealers by the end of this year – amid the launch of three new models by 2025.
The Toyota electric-car charging network will initially be restricted to Toyota vehicles, but could be opened up to rival brands in the coming years.
The installation of the electric-car chargers will be paid for by Toyota dealers – at an estimated combined cost of $20 million.
It will be up to each dealer how many electric-car chargers they instal at each location, and whether the devices are behind closed doors or available with 24-hour access.
The Toyota executive said that while it took 22 years for hybrid technology to become mainstream, he expected electric cars to be widely popular in five to 10 years.

“We know (electric vehicles) will play an ever-increasing role in helping us – and our customers – get to net-zero carbon emissions.
“It’s not a question of ‘Will we?’. It’s a matter of ‘How do we get there and when’.”
The Toyota executive said the rising cost of the precious minerals required to make electric-car batteries would become bigger hurdle as sales increased.
“There is a sobering reality about some of the critical materials used to make battery cells,” said Mr Hanley. “Lithium prices are currently around $100,000 a tonne … almost eight-times higher than just two years ago.
“Driven mostly by accelerating demand and an extended period of under-investment in mines, this has led to a shortage of battery cells.”
The Toyota executive said other road blocks for electric cars are the lack of infrastructure and the unique needs of Australian motorists.

 

[SirRumpole]

The Toyota electric-car charging network will initially be restricted to Toyota vehicles, but could be opened up to rival brands in the coming years.

Does anyone else think that maybe a degree of government coordination is required to standardise charging outlets or is this just one of those things the government should stay out of and let develope on its own ?

 

[sptrawler]

Does anyone else think that maybe a degree of government coordination is required to standardise charging outlets or is this just one of those things the government should stay out of and let develope on its own ?

The plugs themselves seem to have been standardised by the EU, they legislated that CCS2 plugs be the normal configuration and most EV manufacturers seem to be complying.

I definitely think the Governments, should have an active part in deciding where and when the fast chargers are to be rolled out, especially the transmission, networks and distribution sections of government, otherwise as happened with the solar farms they get thrown in and then have output limitations because the electrical infrastructure can't cope.

 

[basilio]

Regarding cheaper electric cars.

Tesla has already driven down the costs of car production to levels other manufactures can only dream about. The giga press process essentially produces a front half and back half with the battery pack in the middle joining them together and providing structural rigidity and a low centre of gravity. Very simple production process.
Electric motors are cheaper and simpler than ICE motors and the lack of many ICE car components - exhaust systems, cooling systems, ectera further reduces costs.
Yes the current cost of batteries is the big bug. Nonetheless Tesla is making very big profits on each car it sells.

The Chinese are already producing some attractive cheap electric cars. Certainly not in the league of Teslas and other expensive EV cars but then the economic question of affordability becomes important. This story is over a year old.

The 5 Mini EV - Cheapest Electric Car from China

Mini EV market is exploding and beaten Tesla in China. An independent evaluation on top 5 Mini EV and to show you if they're any good to us.

www.solaronev.com

 

[basilio]

Yes, but the concern over number of models was not the point I was making.
They are already tooling up for the other two vehicles, will they sacrifice production of other models for the new one, or will there be new factories built?
Tesla are making great margins on the cars they sell now.
If they introduce a model that is effectively half the price of the existing models, will they not cannibilise their existing sales?
How many punters will fork out for a M3 or MY when they can get a much cheaper model.
Unless they can bring an entirely new segment of the market place with them, they will reduce their margins significantly.
Mick

I think the reality is that the Chinese are producing a well sorted urban electric car. If Tesla doesn't produce a competitive product at that price point they will lose market share.

From my memory Musk was always promoting the idea of an affordable EV ie around 20-25K. In theory we should be seeing this unit in production now but... not yet.