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Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%

  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.7%

  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.4%

  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 38 19.2%

  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.6%

  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%
  • Total voters
    198
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Thought you were thinking of moving countries ?
 
Looks like Toyota might be falling in line with the rest of the industry in designing a ground up EV platform -

 
mullokintyre said:
Peter Zeihan has just release a video on why the scalability issue is a big one for EV's.
He also brings a few other issues as well in terms of "green".
Mick
Click to expand...
It's here.
I will correct a number of his very basic errors only as he got so little right it's amazing his video got any traction, apart from his gullible followers.
Let's start:
  • At the 10 second mark Zeihan talks about "electronic" vehicles, rather than electric, so from the get go he's showing his ignorance
  • In the next 10 seconds he says that EVs won't be an appreciable part of our transport future for "at least the next decade"... or "probably closer to three." One in four cars sold in Europe in 2022 were electric, while one in three cars now sold in China - the world's biggest car market - are electric. Zeihan has no idea of the relevant data proving him wrong in 2022, let alone in 10 years time
  • Within 30 seconds, his next claim is that EV's don't stack up well on the CO2 front, yet there is no evidence supporting him and a great deal proving him ignorant
  • His next claim about Tesla and carbon neutrality has no basis as Tesla never mentions its EVs as being "made" using 100% clean power... it's just one on dozens of his false assertions.
So that's 4 pieces of rubbish in less than a minute, and there's over 7 minutes left ... .
  • Now into the first minute and his next claim is that Tesla's China manufacturing plant uses 100% coal power, whereas thermal coal only accounts for about two thirds
  • At about 1:30 Zeihan makes an incredibly stupid point about the "power" of EVs and has instead confused comparative operational durations, which are in fact dependent on battery sizing given some EVs are already able to travel over 1000km on a single charge. Not content to be wrong on that point, he then compounds his ignorance by not knowing that we actually do have battery powered planes, and ships, albeit in small number, while semi EV rollouts are occurring as fast as they can be built
  • At about 2:10 Zeihan says the Ford F150 Lightning's base price is about US$90k, whereas in fact its about $56k - and Ford has has already closed taking orders for 2023 Lightnings because they cannot make them fast enough
  • At 2:18 Zeihan declares that "most of these technologies just aren't ready today". That comment sums up how little he knows. But wait, there's more...
  • Next he claims that making EVs requires order of magnitude more for its material inputs. No data or sources and total BS. EVs are much simpler to make than ICEVs, and Tesla has used well established battery cell making technologies to power its cars, so his claim is total BS. In terms of the issue of "scaling," both BYD and Tesla have shown how it's possible to add a million or more EVs to their annual production, which is almost unheard of in the legacy auto space
  • At 3:08 Zeihan makes the patently obvious false claim that the word has never been able to increase the volume of something it needs by a factor of TWO in 10 years. One easy rebuttal is the tenfold increase in smartphones in 8 years after iPhones were introduced in 2007. Or how about plastic production after 1950 which increased 30 fold in the next 25 years!
  • At around the 4 minute mark Zeihan suggests we simply can't make the EV transition happen because of a host of reasons. Not a single one is credible, aside from the fact we need more raw materials that are used specifically for electrification
  • At 4:52 most Tesla owners will tell you that their cars are NOT their 3rd or 4th car as Zeihan claims but, instead, their primary vehicle. It's so flawed and laughable an idea that you have to wonder how comes up with it
  • Zeihan continues with his demented anti-Tesla rant, going on to totally balls-up Tesla's manufacturing and sales predominance. Zeihan has not grasped the fact that Tesla is an industry leader in every aspect of EV design and manufacture, and has the greatest profit margin per car of all manufacturers - not just of EVs
  • At 6:50 Zeihan's comments about companies other than Tesla are total fabrications. If you own a Tesla you don't need an explanation. His following comments about a "capital crunch" and Tesla's stock market decline are purely speculative, as Tesla has no capital concerns. But it's market price definitely was overstretched and experienced an excessive correction which subsequently saw an 80% jump in the past 3 weeks
  • And finally Mr Zeihan, your claims at 7:30 about other companies having better EV models than Tesla (within a reasonable price range) are seriously deranged.
To his credit, Zeihan ended his video by saying "this is not a stock tip or recommendation". Given most things he said were verifiably false or reflected gross ignorance, it's somewhat amazing he got quarter of a million views, and that many of his supporters have subsequently repeated his lies on the basis of his inflated status.
I removed a lot of data from this post as it was too long. But anyone can google Zeihan's claims and discover his utter incompetence for themselves. Sadly his ilk are responsible for much of the BS about EVs that pervades the internet.
 
Investing ideas -

 
Yesterday we drove the BYD to visit children and grandchildren in the south eastern suburbs.
It was a there and back trip of about 440 kms.
Nominally, the BYD range of 420 kms means its quick charge short, but recent experience suggests that it would be significantly less than that, probably closer to 300 to 320 kms travelling with two on board at the 110km speed limit on the Hume freeway.
So while the rest of the family partied on, I made a quick 3 km detour to a local council parking area that had four charging slots, two with a cable, and two without cable. Only one was available for use, the other three all being occupied by Teslas. One was a Tesla Y model, and the owner gave me an enthusiastic tour of it. He did not seem at all interested in me returning the favour and showing him the BYD.
So, after about an hour, I had added about 10% of charge which i thought wold give me about a 40kms buffer up my sleeve for the return home.
My original thoughts were to drop into the Cooper street BP station, which nominally has 4 charging stations, but when I checked the Evie Ap, only one was working, and that one seemed to be frequently full, as it was when I drove past it on the way down , and the way back.
The fall back position was to detour about 15 kms to the maxi chargers in Avenel.
As we approached the decision point where I had to either detour to Avenel or continue the 70 odd kms to home, we still showed 34 kms of buffer, so i decided to just keep going - it was dark, raining, and two of the passengers wanted to watch the tennis on TV. Well that came back to bite me.
Around 12 kms from home , I got the " you need to charge right now" message, and we still had about 15 kms of range showing.
At the 6 km mark from home, the range suddenly plummeted to zero from the 10 kms that was showing.
In a couple of the test reviews from America for the Rivian and F250 Lightning, both of them had a reserve when it gets to 0 that gives another 12 to 15 kms of emergency, so I thought all would be well. Not so with the BYD.
It shifted itself to Neutral, and just stopped the engine and we coasted to a halt with the lights of the outskirts of town almost within spitting distance. A quick phone call, and a mate came to rescue us and bought a petrol driven generator with him.
Unfortunately, the 1.7 KVA genny kept cutting out as the load on the granny charger was too high.
So we got a lift back home, I grabbed the diesel ute, struggled to get it loaded it up with my 5kva diesel genny, and retraced our steps.
The bigger genny took about about 45 mins to get us enough to limp home, but only just.
Lesson learnt, highway driving decimates range. When in doubt, recharge.
As a secondary observation, a lot of the charging stations shown in plugshare are painfully slow, and the ones I have attended so far , do not charge at the max rate if all the stations are occupied.
So much to learn with running an EV , especially if you live in a regional area.
Mick
 
really appreciate the honesty and tech details.Good to have an objective opinion, especially for the techs on the BYD
Thanks.
Do you have proper hills near perth?
I actually wonder about the performance of the BYD in the sunshine coast hinterland: cruising along Montville Maleny and the coast: 500m elevation to sea level with a lot of down up mountain roads..
 

That's my worse EV nightmare, running out in the middle of nowhere.

10% top up in one hour is very poor, was the charging station only a 10A or 15A unit? If not, I would talk to the dealership.

EV ownership is definitely a learning curve.

When I started looking at EVs one of the main factors I required was to be able to travel long distances, because we enjoy traveling interstate and is why I chose a model with extended range. Since September we've been driving country miles every week, my wife has even done it on her own. All range anxiety has gone, even though there isn't much choice for charging stops where we go.

Some EVs have a better warning system than others. I posted a video of one test a while ago in this thread about 18 months ago - Flat out! We test 5 electric cars until they DIE | Australia EV Challenge


A more recent video tests 10 models -

 
I don't live in Perth, so cannot say, but here in the Goulburn Valley, its as flat as my first girlfrinds chest.
Mick
 
JohnDe said:
That's my worse EV nightmare, running out in the middle of nowhere.

10% top up in one hour is very poor, was the charging station only a 10A or 15A unit? If not, I would talk to the dealership.
Click to expand...
Its not a function of the car, my very first charge at a public station where I was a the only car there, we got about 7.2 kw/hrs which was the advertised rate,.
The next time I tried to use it to show my daughter how to use one, the other stations were all occupied and the rate dropped down to a dismal 2.5.
From talking to the guys that installed our home charger, the biggest problem seems to be in the choice of installers.
A lot of the electricians do not seem to have had the training to understand the DC part of the charging in particular.
And some even skimp on the AC side of it because they issue the cheapest quotes, which often get accepted.
I might add that I have still not able to try out one of the DC fast chargers, thats next on the list.
Mick
 
Yep, it shows the Tesla super charging network still gives the company an incredible moat.

After touring the guys Model Y and thinking about Teslas chargers, do you think the price gap between the teslas and the competition might be worth it?
 
Not a problem at all (atleast with my experience in a Tesla) it will regen on the way down the hills. I drove from Brisbane to Maleny to Kenilworth to Maroochydore and back to Brisbane without charging, and my Tesla in 2019 model with the smaller battery.

If you by a Tesla you also have options for charging either direction you head on the Bruce Highway.

But if you leave Maleny with a full charge from you home, you can get to Brisbane and back and still have 50% charge.
 
Value Collector said:
Yep, it shows the Tesla super charging network still gives the company an incredible moat.

After touring the guys Model Y and thinking about Teslas chargers, do you think the price gap between the teslas and the competition might be worth it?
Click to expand...

Yesterday I charged using a Tesla Gen 2 Wall Connector16A 3 Phase, installed 13 years ago. The M3LR battery was at 20% and I charged it to 90%, took about 3 hours to charge. I think that is very good, because the charger is in the complex that I park in and is free.



 
Because I am in checking mode, I decided to drive about 30 kms to the nearest fast (relatively) charger.
It kinda highlights how folk in the regional areas are likely to face with charging.
How many city dwellers would drive 30kms to get to DC charger without causing world war 3?
The charger is in a council run public car park, where parking is free, but there are time limits.
There are two stations, one CCS, one Chademo, run by the Evie network, so was able to use my newly received RFID card without issue.
In one of the bays was parked a Diesel Prado, despite the signs on the pole next to them saying they were for electric vehicles when charging, and then only for 90 minutes at a time. There are also large green painted EV only wording on the roadway.
The unfortunet part of it is I recognised the vehicle as belonging to one of the local shopowners, so was reluctant to dob them in.
Fortunately for me, I was able to get into the other one and stretch the cable far enough to plug into the car.
It pumped out 50KW as advertised, so I only stayed an hour and got up to about 85%.
Worked seamlessly , so would have no problem jumping onto one again.
looking forward to finding one of these superfast DC chargers some time in the future.
 
Value Collector said:
Yep, it shows the Tesla super charging network still gives the company an incredible moat.

After touring the guys Model Y and thinking about Teslas chargers, do you think the price gap between the teslas and the competition might be worth it?
Click to expand...
Well, given there are all these fantastic Tesla only superchargers, yesterday I was a bit peeved that at the council run chargers, there were 3 Teslas at the car park using up spaces that can be used by non teslas, but not the other way around.
Mick
 
Value Collector said:
Yep, it shows the Tesla super charging network still gives the company an incredible moat.

After touring the guys Model Y and thinking about Teslas chargers, do you think the price gap between the teslas and the competition might be worth it?
Click to expand...
I have no idea.
There are so many things that go into buying a car, and there are some things that are far more important to potential owner A as compared to potential owner B. I don't assume that every other potential buyer similar requirements to me.
Mick
 
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