Electric cars?

[mullokintyre]

People in South Australia can apply to be part of the vehicle to grid (V2G) tests.

Electric cars to power South Australian homes in new trial

South Australia has become the first jurisdiction to allow private electric-car owners to send their battery’s energy back into their homes.

www.drive.com.au

Electricity provider South Australia Power Networks (SAPN) has launched a trial in which the state's electric-car owners can apply for a bi-directional charger, provided the car is equipped with vehicle-to-grid (V2G) or vehicle-to-home (V2H) capabilities.
To obtain a Wallbox Quasar bi-directional charger, South Australian residents must apply to take part in the SAPN trial.
If approved, they will be eligible to purchase the charger from Australian firm JetCharge for about $10,000, excluding installation costs.
In Australia, V2G is currently available in only three vehicles: the Nissan Leaf electric car, plus Mitsubishi’s Outlander and Eclipse Cross plug-in hybrids (PHEV) – all of which are fitted with the Japanese ‘CHAdeMO’ charging connector.

What incentive, if any at all, is there for anyone to take part in this trial?
Fork out $10,000 plus installation costs for something that only works one one pure EV?
Why not just install a battery pack to do the same thing?
Does the owner have any control over when the output is taken from the car? be a bit awkward if you left your car plugged in with 60% battery and came out to find you were down to 20% but needed at leat 30 to do your trip.
I woiuld think that this study will struggle.
The subset of EV owners who fit the all criteria and are willing to fork out the 10k+ is minute.
Mick

 

[sptrawler]

What incentive, if any at all, is there for anyone to take part in this trial?
Fork out $10,000 plus installation costs for something that only works one one pure EV?
Why not just install a battery pack to do the same thing?
Does the owner have any control over when the output is taken from the car? be a bit awkward if you left your car plugged in with 60% battery and came out to find you were down to 20% but needed at leat 30 to do your trip.
I woiuld think that this study will struggle.
The subset of EV owners who fit the all criteria and are willing to fork out the 10k+ is minute.
Mick

Plus the fact your battery is getting cycled, how will that affect the longevity and indeed warranty? There is a lot of variable with the V2G issue IMO. V2H I can understand, it gives you a degree of control, but V2G I'm not as sure about.

 

[mullokintyre]

A small problem that may scale up to a big problem.
From The Evil murdoch press

Australian Tesla drivers returning from Christmas holidays were caught in 90 minute queues just to be able to use a charging port in regional Australia this week.
Footage of massive lines at a charging station on the Victorian border city of Wodonga has prompted calls for more stations to be built in regional areas in a bid to ensure everyone can get home safely.

ABC journalist Phil Williams was caught in the chaos, taking to Twitter to vent his frustration.
“Wodonga Tesla charge points overwhelmed with wait times around 90 mins,” he wrote.

“Basic EV infrastructure failing to keep pace with demand. Time for some serious investment for the future.”
EV drivers in other parts of the country were quick to agree.

Twitter user JohnW said he was facing a similar situation in the northern NSW town of Coffs Harbour, sharing similar photos to the Twitter thread.

It takes Tesla owners up to 60 minutes to fully charge their vehicles from a near empty battery. Combined with the limited charging bays, it’s added up to impatience and frustration for those trying to make it home.

Those with electric cars can pay a premium to use the super chargers, which provide a faster rate of charging than a user would experience at home.

Wodonga only has a single area where EV super chargers can be found, compared to around 11 petrol stations within the same area.

Way back in post #3781 i tried to introduce the concept of scalability and the issues surrounding it, but it kinda fell on deaf ears.
Scalability is a real problem, and the instances outlined above highlight just how the unintended consequences often rear their ugly heads when one tries to scale up a small form engineering solution.
The issue will not be going away anytime soon.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

A small problem that may scale up to a big problem.
From The Evil murdoch press

Way back in post #3781 i tried to introduce the concept of scalability and the issues surrounding it, but it kinda fell on deaf ears.
Scalability is a real problem, and the instances outlined above highlight just how the unintended consequences often rear their ugly heads when one tries to scale up a small form engineering solution.
The issue will not be going away anytime soon.
Mick

A small problem that may scale up to a big problem.
From The Evil murdoch press

Way back in post #3781 i tried to introduce the concept of scalability and the issues surrounding it, but it kinda fell on deaf ears.
Scalability is a real problem, and the instances outlined above highlight just how the unintended consequences often rear their ugly heads when one tries to scale up a small form engineering solution.
The issue will not be going away anytime soon.
Mick

These are just growing pains, Tesla chargers scale up quite well, look at these monsters, c couple of these big charging locations between Sydney and Melbourne would solve the issue.

Or as you can see in the other photo in the USA Tesla has these mobile charging stations they can roll out for the holiday period to areas that need extra capacity.

 

[Value Collector]

Check out this supercharger station.

Fast forward to the 1min mark

 

[mullokintyre]

These are just growing pains, Tesla chargers scale up quite well, look at these monsters, c couple of these big charging locations between Sydney and Melbourne would solve the issue.

Or as you can see in the other photo in the USA Tesla has these mobile charging stations they can roll out for the holiday period to areas that need extra capacity.

View attachment 151020View attachment 151021View attachment 151022

Great that they built them in the USA.
But the problems are in Wodonga and Coffs harbour.
What has been built so afr has got to be scaled by a a couple of orders of magnitude or things will get even messier.
And notwithstanding what they have built in the USA, its going to create problems here in OZ.
They are going to need some serious industrial supply to run large scale numbers of fast DC chargers.
They are going to have to be sited close to some high voltage transmission lines.
As you drive up the Hume, notice where many of the existing servos are placed.
Often in more remote sections where space is not at a premium, but where a there is probably a 400V 3 phase supply.
Ya can't just stick these things anywhere.
Mick

 

[Value Collector]

Great that they built them in the USA.
But the problems are in Wodonga and Coffs harbour.
What has been built so afr has got to be scaled by a a couple of orders of magnitude or things will get even messier.
And notwithstanding what they have built in the USA, its going to create problems here in OZ.
They are going to need some serious industrial supply to run large scale numbers of fast DC chargers.
They are going to have to be sited close to some high voltage transmission lines.
As you drive up the Hume, notice where many of the existing servos are placed.
Often in more remote sections where space is not at a premium, but where a there is probably a 400V 3 phase supply.
Ya can't just stick these things anywhere.
Mick

It’s just a simple supply following demand thing, they will build more supply as demand grows, of course there will be teething issues around peak demand holiday time for a little while though.

As for having the electricity supply, the way they do it in the USA is to have the charging station backed up by batteries, so all 40 chargers can run at peak capacity by taking the available supply off the grid, supplemented by batteries and solar.

If there is enough electricity supply to run a service station, you can run a charging station that has batteries integrated.

 

[qldfrog]

Great that they built them in the USA.
But the problems are in Wodonga and Coffs harbour.
What has been built so afr has got to be scaled by a a couple of orders of magnitude or things will get even messier.
And notwithstanding what they have built in the USA, its going to create problems here in OZ.
They are going to need some serious industrial supply to run large scale numbers of fast DC chargers.
They are going to have to be sited close to some high voltage transmission lines.
As you drive up the Hume, notice where many of the existing servos are placed.
Often in more remote sections where space is not at a premium, but where a there is probably a 400V 3 phase supply.
Ya can't just stick these things anywhere.
Mick

You can, as they do already, huge diesel generators so that the wxnkers can feel good driving EV to save the planet.
Does anyone remember the scam of the fluo bulbs, the government incentives etc etc
Results:
So called longuer life of these bulbs was never achieved, we switched on and staid in darkness for 3 minutes, and our dumps and air got an extra does of mercury? Or is it cyanide? Forgot.but highly dangerous when broken..with no recycling in place.
I still intend to get an ev as soon as we move in the final house, but no illusion:
The EVs move is the fluo bulb of 2022, coupled with social engineering and removal of one of the basic human freedom: freedom of movement

 

[Boggo]

Interesting ?

 

[Value Collector]

You can, as they do already, huge diesel generators so that the wxnkers can feel good driving EV to save the planet.
Does anyone remember the scam of the fluo bulbs, the government incentives etc etc
Results:
So called longuer life of these bulbs was never achieved, we switched on and staid in darkness for 3 minutes, and our dumps and air got an extra does of mercury? Or is it cyanide? Forgot.but highly dangerous when broken..with no recycling in place.
I still intend to get an ev as soon as we move in the final house, but no illusion:
The EVs move is the fluo bulb of 2022, coupled with social engineering and removal of one of the basic human freedom: freedom of movement

What are you talking about?
I didn’t see any diesel generators at those Tesla locations, only solar panels, batteries and a grid connection.

However, if a remote charging station did have a back up diesel generator that backed up the solar and batteries. that would still reduce the need for diesel by a lot.

Remember something doesn’t have to be perfect to be better.

 

[Value Collector]

Interesting ?

View attachment 151035

What is interesting?

 

[SirRumpole]

What is interesting?

Considering the relatively small number of Teslas in the country, and how hard they are to get, and that they would be relatively new the fact that a lot of owners want to get rid of them is interesting.

Are they trading in on a new Tesla or is something wrong with the vehicle ?

 

[mullokintyre]

Interesting ?

View attachment 151035

In marketing parlance, there are three types of market.
1. The early adoptees -the disciples of a product. Go out to all and sundry singing its praises, will brook no wrong.
2. the risk takers - this group are willing to take a risk on a product, believing the bnefit will outweigh the risk.
3. Everyone else.
The marketeers don't really have to market to the first two groups, these two groups will do the marketing for them.
Its that third group, by far the biggest, that the marketeers have to convince.
We have generally filled the needs of the first two groups in terms of EV's.
The rest will be somewhat harder.
There will be price points to be overcome, fears, both justified and unfounded to be overcome, as well as inherent biases to be overcome.

Mick

 

[Value Collector]

Considering the relatively small number of Teslas in the country, and how hard they are to get, and that they would be relatively new the fact that a lot of owners want to get rid of them is interesting.

Are they trading in on a new Tesla or is something wrong with the vehicle ?

Small amount? It’s not 2019 anymore they are every where you look in Brisbane now.

With the model 3 being leased over 3 years ago now in australia, many people that replace their cars every 2-3 years especially those that lease will be due to swap their cars out, especially because a lot of people are upgrading to the model y now.

 

[Value Collector]

In marketing parlance, there are three types of market.
1. The early adoptees -the disciples of a product. Go out to all and sundry singing its praises, will brook no wrong.
2. the risk takers - this group are willing to take a risk on a product, believing the bnefit will outweigh the risk.
3. Everyone else.
The marketeers don't really have to market to the first two groups, these two groups will do the marketing for them.
Its that third group, by far the biggest, that the marketeers have to convince.
We have generally filled the needs of the first two groups in terms of EV's.
The rest will be somewhat harder.
There will be price points to be overcome, fears, both justified and unfounded to be overcome, as well as inherent biases to be overcome.

Mick

What marketing do Tesla do? Do you ever see a Tesla advert any where? They don’t really market at all, yet their sales keep growing, what does that say?

 

[mullokintyre]

Do you ever see a Tesla ad any where? They don’t really market at all, yet their sales keep growing, what does that say?

it tells me that there are more than a few people in group 1 (without trying to be rude, i would count you in that group), there are plenty more in the second group (I count myself as one of them, though I bought a BYD rather than a Tesla ) who may still have their orders in.
Mick

 

[SirRumpole]

Small amount? It’s not 2019 anymore they are every where you look in Brisbane now.

With the model 3 being leased over 3 years ago now in australia, many people that replace their cars every 2-3 years especially those that lease will be due to swap their cars out, especially because a lot of people are upgrading to the model y now.

View attachment 151040

There aren't all that many really, even given 2020 figures.

Teslas by postcode: Where EVs are most popular in Australia - EV Central

Teslas are popular in NSW and Queensland, but it's Canberra that has more of the Californian-made EVs than anywhere else. As for Victoria...

evcentral.com.au

You probably notice them more because you have one.

I only saw < 5 in Melbourne.

 

[Value Collector]

There aren't all that many really, even given 2020 figures.

Teslas by postcode: Where EVs are most popular in Australia - EV Central

Teslas are popular in NSW and Queensland, but it's Canberra that has more of the Californian-made EVs than anywhere else. As for Victoria...

evcentral.com.au

You probably notice them more because you have one.

I only saw < 5 in Melbourne.

I was in Melbourne recently and I think I saw more than 5 in the time it took me to eat a Daniels Donut walking down Collins st, Hahaha.

Maybe you aren’t noticing them all.

 

[Value Collector]

it tells me that there are more than a few people in group 1 (without trying to be rude, i would count you in that group), there are plenty more in the second group (I count myself as one of them, though I bought a BYD rather than a Tesla ) who may still have their orders in.
Mick

Group 1 and 2 must be huge if it’s allowing them to outsell Toyota passenger cars, even though they are more expensive and don’t advertise.

I am probably in group 1, I openly told friends and family 15years ago I wouldn’t replace my old 1997 VT commodore until an electric car was available and that was before Tesla was even a thing.

But I have had lots of people who you would consider to be group 3 ride in my car, and they love it, and have all said if it wasn’t for price they would get one.

The benefits to the mainstream consumer are huge, this is what will drive sales.

 

[mullokintyre]

Group 1 and 2 must be huge if it’s allowing them to outsell Toyota passenger cars, even though they are more expensive and don’t advertise.

Group 1 and 2 fit into the top end of the market - they tend to be wealthy enough to buy what they want, when they want.
Nothwithstanding that, from performance Drive comes the November sales figures from VFACTS.

The humble Toyota corrolla outsold the tesla Model Y by about 3 to 1.
One has to assume from this that the Model 3 sales were less than 1805.
I am not sure where you got the figures for the comparison of the Mdel 3's versus Camrys. perhaps it was another month.
But from the same article quoting the VFACTS sales,

At least for November, there were nearly twice as many Camry's sold as Model 3's.
Mick