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Electric cars?

Would you buy an electric car?

  • Already own one

    Votes: 10 5.1%
  • Yes - would definitely buy

    Votes: 43 21.7%
  • Yes - preferred over petrol car if price/power/convenience similar

    Votes: 78 39.4%
  • Maybe - preference for neither, only concerned with costs etc

    Votes: 38 19.2%
  • No - prefer petrol car even if electric car has same price, power and convenience

    Votes: 25 12.6%
  • No - would never buy one

    Votes: 14 7.1%

  • Total voters
    198
My comment turned out to be, well, alarmingly timed.....

At 11:35am on Wednesday (eastern states time) AEMO implemented a change to NEMDE (National Electricity Market Dispatch Engine) which in simple terms is the software controlling the physical dispatch of power generation into grid.

Anyone like to guess what happened?

Well it resulted in about 16% of all generation running at 11:35 promptly shutting down with impacts across all 5 NEM states. It being the wind and solar farms which were affected.



Emphasis in orange is mine.

Noting that it's pure coincidence that the example I've used here is an electrical one. It would be equally relevant if it were anything else.

I've nothing against those who code software for a living, it's nothing personal, and nor is my example intended as criticism of AEMO. It's just an example, it could've been any industry anywhere.

It's just a reality that I've personally seen a few too many real world near misses caused by software flaws to be comfortable with the idea that someone's remotely tinkering with a car that I'm driving, potentially whilst I'm driving it.
 
I have spent my career in software: applying a patch at 11am midweek is absolutely crazy.
Consider timing bloody amateurs:
Not done start of day so less time to fix before end of day..and we still work in 8 to 5..if that team does not, the teams for other potentially impacted components do or the right contacts you need to call..
not a 17y old in Bangalore who has no clues as to what your company does except a 2 liners poping on the screen when you call support.
Even worse: in energy industry, peak solar is around lunchtime...
Unless the monday patch just crashed during and due to peak? We will never know
Anyway, same as comsec doing patching on friday night..you mean what? Trading on asx is closed so what is your problem?
Nyse? What's that?
Etc etc.the timing of patching / upgrades is a great revelator of incompetence in the IT world
I had to fight quite a few battles on behalf of my clients here in the mines...
 
All that to say..no thanks, i want to be in control of at least the timing of upgrades
 

I'm not sure how your previous comment about EV OTA updates has anything to do with AEMO.

An update for an EV is not compulsory to accept and download. Taking Tesla as an example, there are millions of their models on the road and hundreds of thousands of Beta drivers. Some updates are developed to fix a problem, some to improve efficiency, safety and security. Before an update is sent out to the masses it is tested inhouse and then by the Beta drivers. Yes things can sometimes go wrong, but the chances are extremely low, and there are back up systems in place.

AEMO does not have Beta testers or the budget to employ a team of software engineers as large as Tesla's.

Don't worry too much about OTA updates, it has been around for years. If you don't trust it no one is making you change. Keep the Nokia phone and the pre-2022 vehicle, both will not be capable of OTA updates.

In 2004 I purchased a new Ford Territory, a great car but with some flaws. One issue required me to book the car in and leave it for the day so that the dealer could install software update for a known issue. That was the first and last update, if I wanted the fuel and power improvements, and the gear change adjustments that the latest model had I needed to trade in my 2 year old Territory and purchase the new model.

My current Tesla has had several updates, all downloaded and installed at my choosing of time and location, which include but not limited to:

  • Blind Spot Camera
  • Traffic Along Route
  • Disable Sentry Sounds
  • Driver Profiles
  • Auto Rear Climate Controls
  • Additional Bottom Bar Customization
  • Regenerative Braking
  • Turn Signal
  • Cabin Camera
  • Speed Assist
  • Online Radio
  • Sentry Mode
  • Seat Belt System Enhancement
  • Tesla Adaptive Suspension
  • HomeLink Buttons
  • Battery at Arrival
  • Green Traffic Light Chime
  • Bluetooth Menu
  • Tire Configuration
  • Improvements to Energy Prediction
  • Autopilot Maximum Speed
  • Automatic Supercharger Rerouting
  • Driver Profiles
  • Regenerative Braking
  • Navigation Energy Prediction
  • TeslaMic
  • Powered Trunk
  • Updated Visualizations
  • Regeneration / Acceleration Line
  • Heat Pump & Low Voltage Battery
  • Full Self-Driving (Beta) Suspension
  • FSD Beta v10.13 Release Notes
  • Improved Vehicle Path
  • Additional Bottom Bar Customization
  • Disney+
  • Navigation Routes
  • Child Lock
  • Charging Time Estimation
  • Additional Mobile App Controls
  • Tesla Tutorials
  • Rear Display Improvements
  • New Language Support
  • Browser Improvements
  • Compass / Always North
  • Superchargers List
  • Updated Service Mode
  • Autopilot Maximum Speed
 
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This may put a cat among the pigeons.
Who said Trumps tariffs on China didn't work, ah the media that's right, also it seems annoying the EU allies is o.k now.
BRUSSELS (Reuters) -The European Union and South Korea have raised concerns about proposed U.S. tax credits for purchases of electric vehicles, saying they may discriminate against foreign-made vehicles and breach World Trade Organization (WTO) rules.

Under the $430 billion climate and energy bill passed by the U.S. Senate on Sunday, Congress would lift the cap on the existing $7,500 tax credit for electric vehicle purchasers but impose restrictions, including barring vehicles not assembled in North America from receiving the credit.


The ban on tax credits for vehicles assembled outside of North America would take effect as soon as President Joe Biden signs the legislation.

The proposed legislation also includes provisions aimed at preventing use of battery components or critical minerals derived from China.

"We think it's discriminatory, that it is discriminating against foreign producers in relation to U.S. producers," said European Commission spokesperson Miriam Garcia Ferrer. "Of course this would mean that it would be incompatible with the WTO."
 
An honest review & description -



 
I'm not sure how your previous comment about EV OTA updates has anything to do with AEMO.
It’s simply a very real example of why I don’t trust software updates period.

I’ve seen far too many examples where it’s clear that testing wasn’t up to scratch and problems were discovered when it was implemented.

That approach isn’t one that fits well with vehicles for obvious reasons.

That the example happens to be electrical related is purely coincidental, my concern being about software testing in general not being robust.
 
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First there was constant talk from the naysayers that EVs will never go mainstream in the next 10 or 15 years, now we're coming to an issue that brings us to battery shortages slowing EV production. What next?

 

“There’s a reason why we don’t simply use gasoline to power our drones. Internal combustion engines require heaps of maintenance; they are dirty, complex, expensive, and much more likely to fail than an all-electric drone. This makes them less than ideal as consumer products. A battery-powered drone is more like a smartphone than an RC aircraft, and most users don’t need more than modern drones’ typical 30-minute flight times.”
 
There has been some talk that Australia, like others, need to stimulate the uptake of EV's by providing subsidies, tax breaks, etc etc.
The problem is, often the money ends u in the hands of the manufacturers.
From Zero hedge
Its highly likely that the Automakers wqould have increased the prices anyway given the inflation that has been rushing along in the US, but now it seems that the Guvmint (i.e. the taxpayers) will be paying the price increase.
Nice work if you can get it.
Expect the other manufacturers to follow suit.
Mick
 
Yeah, But my favourite bread (Abbotts country grain) has gone up 40 cents recently which is pretty much the same percentage increase as the ford truck, and the bread bakers don't get an Ev subsidy.

-----------------------

I am not for big Ev subsidies, I think the Government just needs to avoid adding extra taxes while the transition is in the early stages, if anything I would support maybe an increase in the luxury vehicles tax threshold, because as I stated earlier part of the cost that increases the price of EV's is just the battery, so in some ways its a battery tax. (not to mention that the luxury vehicle tax is a silly tax anyway)

Also, Sp has convinced me that maybe incentives for increasing the charging network is the better option.
 
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On the subject of the network, I have received a VIN number so I thought join chargefox and get ready.
I looked at where I would charge if I decided to go to Albany again as I did a couple of weeks ago, the only 50Kw charger on the Albany highway for type 2 cars is at Kojonup, it has a CHAdeMO and a CCS2 port only the CHADeMO is operational.
Really I'm beginning to think I should have waited and bought the Tesla model Y, as Tesla is the only vehicle in W.A that a person can travel any distance and know there is a charging network that has reasonable coverage.
If there is any rapid up take of E.V's in W.A there will be chaos, as the wife has said, if we want to go up North or down to Albany, Esperance etc we will just have to hire an ICE car.
Which really isn't a good advertisement for E.V's, my guess is sometime next year there will be a lot of coverage on the news of violence associated with E.V charging in W.A.
 
Why do you say the luxury tax is a silly tax anyway?
One of the reasons it was bought in was to claw some tax back from the uber wealthy who leased high value vehicles to reduce tax.
Worked ok from my perspective.
Mick
 
Why do you say the luxury tax is a silly tax anyway?
One of the reasons it was bought in was to claw some tax back from the uber wealthy who leased high value vehicles to reduce tax.
Worked ok from my perspective.
Mick
Firstly if the car is leased for business (which is the only reason you can claim the leasing costs), the Tax increases the cost base of the car, and that cost base is written off against income as part of the lease any way, so it’s not increasing the tax revenue in that situation as you claim.

The tax was brought in to increase the cost of the expensive imported cars, to help support our local vehicle industry which no longer exists.

For me I am already paying 47% tax on my income + 10% gst on the remainder when I choose to spend it, so adding an extra 33% luxury car tax just because the cost of the battery pushed the car over the threshold seems silly.

—————————

Not to mention that the wife and I are a single car family, so we chose to spend the $80k and get a more expensive car, however a family that bought two $70k cars have $140k of cars and don’t get hit with the tax, despite having the luxury of owning $60k more worth of cars than our family.

In fact some one could have 20 x $70,000 cars and not pay any luxury vehicle tax.

————————————
Basically I am of the opinion that it’s a silly tax, if you want to stop people leasing expensive cars, change the leasing rules, but at the moment the luxury vehicle tax does nothing to stop that anyway, because the tax is written of against income anyway.
 
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Out of interest I thought I would run the numbers on how much I have to earn to buy a $100K car I intend to use privately, and how much the government takes in Taxes from me in the process of earning that money and spending it on the Car.

Firstly to have $100K to spend, I actually had to earn $188,679 and pay $88,867 to the ATO in income tax, so it looks like this.

$188,679 had to be earned

Minus $88,867 paid income Tax.

$100,000 left to spend

$ 9,090 GST Included in the $100K
$ 6,765 Luxury Vehicle Tax
$ 4,000 Stamp Duty
$ 4,000 customs import fees

So before I have even paid Rego or any of the on road costs, just to spend $100K on a new car I have had to send $112,722 to the government.

Total Tax paid to own a $100K car = $112,722, that seems like the government is getting a pretty good deal, and certainly makes the "luxury vehicle tax" look like an over the top greedy extra grap.
 
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Well, it looks like a pretty good tax to me if you pay that much tax for the pleasure of your luxury car!
However, I would suggest your reasoning is a bit shonky.
The $88867 would have been paid whether you bought a luxury car or just kept the money, so its a bit spurious.

If you read this ruling from the ATO
You cannot get a credit of the Luxury car tax and depreciate the total amount as well on a lease.
Mick
 

Geez, has it really come to this ?

I drove through some rain yesterday and my windscreen wipers activated with the flick of a switch.

Are some people so lazy or incompetent these days that they have to rely on software to do everything for them ?

It's the start of the decline of the human race, mark my words.
 
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